Was the Thief on the Cross Baptized or Not?

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Johann

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Believed, he was “ baptized” into the Body Of Christ.....without “ that” baptism, you are Lost....
I would say without Christ, we are lost. Without the Holy Spirt and the sealing, we are lost, without the Father, we are lost.

Luk 7:29 And all the people who heard Him, even the tax collectors, acknowledged the justice of God [in calling them to repentance and in pronouncing future wrath on the impenitent], being baptized with the baptism of John.
AMP
Act 8:16 For He had not yet fallen upon any of them, but they had only been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus.
Act 8:17 Then [the apostles] laid their hands on them one by one, and they received the Holy Spirit.
1Co_1:13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
1Co_1:14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
1Co_1:15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
1Co_1:16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.

1Co_10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

1Co_12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

The baptism of the Holy Spirit took place on the Day of Pentecost. The church was born at that time. We partake of the benefits of that baptism when we are born again. We become members of the Body of Christ.
Several important points should be noted here:

First, the baptism of the Holy Spirit is that divine operation which places believers in the Body of Christ. It is not the same as water baptism.

This is clear from Mat_3:11; Joh_1:33; Act_1:5. It is not a work of grace subsequent to salvation whereby believers become more spiritual.

All the Corinthians had been baptized in the Spirit, yet Paul rebukes them for being carnal—not spiritual (1Co_3:1).

It is not true that speaking in tongues is the invariable sign of being baptized by the Spirit.

All the Corinthians had been baptized, but not all spoke in tongues (12:30). There are crisis experiences of the Holy Spirit when a believer surrenders to the Spirit's control and is then empowered from on high. But such an experience is not the same as the baptism of the Spirit, and should not be confused with it.

The verse goes on to say that believers have all been made to drink into one Spirit. This means that they partake of the Spirit of God in the sense that they receive Him as an indwelling Person and receive the benefits of His ministry in their lives.

J.
 

1stCenturyLady

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By asking was he baptized or not, to me you are asking did he receive the down payment of the Holy Spirit? But I think I remember from talking with you a few years ago that you don’t believe there is a down payment and learning righteousness - you only believe there is holy/saved and not holy/unsaved. Did I remember that right?
If I did, I've changed my view since then, but just a little. I still believe that just knowing about Jesus is not enough; one must be born again of the Spirit. THEN starts the journey. So, it will either be your own will and knowledge of the commandments like the Jews (self-righteousness/unsaved) OR if before Christ died, then saved and previous sins were overlooked Romans 3:25. But now, it will be the power of the Spirit who is the author and finisher of our faith. The Spirit plants the laws of God He wants us to start with on our conscience and as long as we keep those we are deemed righteous and without sin. If we keep those, the Holy Spirit will plant more laws and knowledge on our conscience for us to then live up too. From faith to faith, and from glory to glory. Romans 1:17 says from faith to faith. Throughout out life we only need to live up to the level we are at. However, it we do not grow and keep what we know, quenching the Spirit, we may lose what we had in the beginning, and go back to our own vomit. If you want to see a parable from Jesus on this, go to Matthew 25 and read the parable of the talents. Jesus said to the first two, "well done thou good and faithful servant...", virtually the same thing, even though the first presented ten talents and the second only four. See? The last servant also received a starter talent to see what he would do with it, and he hid it in the ground. It was taken away from him and given to the most mature servant.
 
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stunnedbygrace

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If I did, I've changed my view since then, but just a little. I still believe that just knowing about Jesus is not enough; one must be born again of the Spirit. THEN starts the journey. So, it will either be your own will and knowledge of the commandments like the Jews (self-righteousness/unsaved), or it will be the power of the Spirit who is the author and finisher of our faith. The Spirit plants the laws of God He wants us to start with on our conscience and as long as we keep those we are deemed righteous and without sin. If we keep those, the Holy Spirit will plant more laws and knowledge on our conscience for us to then live up too. From faith to faith, and from glory to glory. Romans 1:17 says from faith to faith. Throughout out life we only need to live up to the level we are at. However, it we do not grow and keep what we know, quenching the Spirit, we may lose what we had in the beginning, and go back to our own vomit. If you want to see a parable from Jesus on this, go to Matthew 25 and read the parable of the talents. Jesus said to the first two, "well done thou good and faithful servant...", virtually the same thing, even though the first presented ten talents and the second only four. See? The last servant also received a starter talent to see what he would do with it, and he hid it in the ground. It was taken away from him and given to the most mature servant.
Oh! Well that’s actually a pretty big change from a few years ago when I spoke with you. I can much more agree with you now that you leave some room for Gods mercy and acceptance toward those learning righteousness.
Before you didn’t have as much balance in that.

I still didn’t hear in your above outline any mention of those who give one of Christs body a kindness (described as a cup of water) and it’s woven throughout the whole Bible and is in the parables, this idea that He will have mercy on whoever He chooses to show mercy, even DESPITE what religious men insist.
 

1stCenturyLady

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Oh! Well that’s actually a pretty big change from a few years ago when I spoke with you. I can much more agree with you now that you leave some room for Gods mercy and acceptance toward those learning righteousness.
Before you didn’t have as much balance in that.

I still didn’t hear in your above outline any mention of those who give one of Christs body a kindness (described as a cup of water) and it’s woven throughout the whole Bible and is in the parables, this idea that He will have mercy on whoever He chooses to show mercy, even DESPITE what religious men insist.
Walking in the Spirit would certainly give a cup of water if one saw someone in need. That's love.

And, yes, the levels of obedience still proves sinlessness. But not all needed obedience is revealed until more growth is seen.

The "levels" is the major change I've learned most recently. But it is still complete obedience to what you know. The "mercy" would be for what you don't know. We must just obey our conscience where the Holy Spirit authors His laws even as situations arise - like Him telling you to give money or water.
 
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rwb

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I still believe that just knowing about Jesus is not enough; one must be born again of the Spirit. THEN starts the journey.

Yes, Christ tells us "Ye must be born again" to know and enter the Kingdom of God. To be born again means to receive the Holy Spirit IN you. So, baptism through the Holy Spirit, not baptism by water is what saves you. Prior to Pentecost, when Christ sent the Spirit to be IN whosoever believes in Him, Christ says, "he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you." The thief on the cross certainly demonstrated by his confession the presence of the Holy Spirit with him. Because he called Him Lord and acknowledged familiarity of His Kingdom. The natural spirit in man could not know this, the Spirit must reveal this to him.

John 14:16-17 (KJV) And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Luke 23:42 (KJV)
And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

1 Corinthians 2:14 (KJV) But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
 
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Dustykitten

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Please give a reason for your answer. Carefully read the account in Luke 23.

Luke 23:
32 There were also two others, criminals, led with Him to be put to death. 33 And when they had come to the place called Calvary, there they crucified Him, and the criminals, one on the right hand and the other on the left. 34 Then Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they do.”

And they divided His garments and cast lots. 35 And the people stood looking on. But even the rulers with them sneered, saying, “He saved others; let Him save Himself if He is the Christ, the chosen of God.”


36 The soldiers also mocked Him, coming and offering Him sour wine, 37 and saying, “If You are the King of the Jews, save Yourself.”

38 And an inscription also was [i]written over Him in letters of Greek, Latin, and Hebrew:

THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS.


39 Then one of the criminals who were hanged blasphemed Him, saying, “If You are the Christ, save Yourself and us.”

40 But the other, answering, rebuked him, saying, “Do you not even fear God, seeing you are under the same condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds; but this Man has done nothing wrong.” 42 Then he said to Jesus, “Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.”


43 And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”
Baptized by the Holy Spirit. His faith was present while on the cross. And Jesus assured him of his salvation that very day.
 
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stunnedbygrace

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Walking in the Spirit would certainly give a cup of water if one saw someone in need. That's love.
Of course someone walking in His Spirit in holiness would help His body. They would recognize the body of Christ. But the reaction of those in the parable shows they did NOT recognize His body. They did the kindness without knowing who they were helping. They just did the right thing and helped a person. Their reaction at being welcomed in is: huh…? When did we ever see You and help You or give you a kindness…?

In contrast, the second group says, what?? When did we ever see You in need and NOT help You…?!

Both groups were not walking in holiness. Both groups did not recognize Christs body. But one group did the right/righteous thing to help one they saw in need and one group did not do the right thing.
And, yes, the levels of obedience still proves sinlessness. But not all needed obedience is revealed until more growth is seen.

The "levels" is the major change I've learned most recently. But it is still complete obedience to what you know. The "mercy" would be for what you don't know. We must just obey our conscience where the Holy Spirit authors His laws even as situations arise - like Him telling you to give money or water.
 

1stCenturyLady

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I wrote this post because of the doctrine of demons emphatically claiming that the thief on the cross was not baptized, creating an apathetic approach to water baptism. That apathy is what makes it a doctrine of demons. First of all, baptism is not mentioned at all so the Word cannot be the foundation for that belief.

So what can be our foundation? His fruit. Not that he was a thief - he may have been at one time - but I don't believe he still was, anymore than Paul was always a murderer of Christians. No, his faith was his fruit, and his spiritual understanding that the "Kingdom" was not of this world as the apostles had believed. The thief had more faith and understanding at that time than all the apostles put together. Peter denied him. Thomas doubted he rose again. All the apostles ran away. Only John was at the cross with the mother of Jesus.

So my conclusion is that this thief came across Jesus and repented, turning his life around; therefore he WAS baptized in water. He may not have been an apostle of Jesus but was certainly a follower of Jesus, and understood that the death of Jesus was not the end.

BTW, paradise is Abraham's bosom to the Jews, the good side of the grave, and we are aware. Thus as Jesus said TODAY he would be with Jesus in paradise. The belief that the comma was in the wrong place prove anything. Some have commented that he was in the ground for 3 days, so wasn't aware of his surroundings. But then how could Jesus preach there as Peter said, "18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison,1 Peter 3:18.
 

Dustykitten

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So then you do not believe he was ever baptized in water before going to the cross?
We can't know this. However, his knowledge of who Christ was and his imploring Jesus to remember him when he comes into his kingdom tells us he was regenerate.Becaude the natural mind wouldn't understand Jesus teaching.

And Jesus promised he would one day join him in paradise.
 

1stCenturyLady

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We can't know this. However, his knowledge of who Christ was and his imploring Jesus to remember him when he comes into his kingdom tells us he was regenerate.Becaude the natural mind wouldn't understand Jesus teaching.

And Jesus promised he would one day join him in paradise.
We can know who is a Christian by their fruit. Matthew 7. Christians are baptized. And his fruit was mature fruit, thus he's been a Christian for some time before they took him to jail.
 
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stunnedbygrace

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I wrote this post because of the doctrine of demons emphatically claiming that the thief on the cross was not baptized
Has anyone emphatically claimed he wasn’t…? I know you emphatically claim he was, and yell about doctrines of demons, but…
 

1stCenturyLady

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Of course someone walking in His Spirit in holiness would help His body. They would recognize the body of Christ. But the reaction of those in the parable shows they did NOT recognize His body. They did the kindness without knowing who they were helping. They just did the right thing and helped a person. Their reaction at being welcomed in is: huh…? When did we ever see You and help You or give you a kindness…?

In contrast, the second group says, what?? When did we ever see You in need and NOT help You…?!

Both groups were not walking in holiness. Both groups did not recognize Christs body. But one group did the right/righteous thing to help one they saw in need and one group did not do the right thing.
Okay, you lost me here. What parable are you talking about? I only mentioned the talents.
 

stunnedbygrace

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Okay, you lost me here. What parable are you talking about? I only mentioned the talents.
31 “But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. 32 And all the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, just as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats;33 and He will put the sheep on His right, but the goats on the left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; 36 naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.’37 Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink?38 And when did we see You as a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? 39 And when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it for one of the least of these brothers or sisters of Mine, you did it for Me.’

41 “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, you accursed people, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; 42 for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; 43 I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.’ 44 Then they themselves also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or as a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not [i]take care of You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it for one of the least of these, you did not do it for Me, either.’ 46 These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
 

stunnedbygrace

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Neither group discerned the body.
This parable deals with the second judgement.
Believers were already judged. By their works. From one of the books. A thousand years prior.

But in this judgement, there is a lot of mercy for some who were not in the first resurrection.
 

amigo de christo

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Play around with God's word to suit your own ideations and make lies into YOUR truth; God will certainly let you.

REMEMBER THIS.......
GOD IS A CONSUMING FIRE, HIS MEMORY IS NOT SLACK NOR HIS EYE BLIND TO SIN UNLESS YOU ....REPENT !

Twist, erase, even redact his Holy Writ but an account will be held & all markers will be called in to pay to the upmost for your sins by YOU, THE REJECTER, for you rejected his redemption along with HIS TRUTH !

The WARNING HAS BEEN SOUNDED...AGAIN & AGAIN. ONE DAY YOUR LAST WARNING WILL COME. Then all the truth you have denied will be your judgment ! There will be no excuse, " I was taught", " I searched out for myself", " I'm a righteous student of your word ; just NOT ACCORDING TO YOUR HOLY SPIRIT !....... yada yada.

Your number will be called but your name has been BLOTTED OUT !
And all whose names were not written in the book of life , were cast into the lake of fire . DONT let these inclusivians
try and preach another gospel to us . THEY are fearful to preach JESUS as the only means to be saved
to this many path generation . WE shall stickto the ONE TRUE GOSPEL dear sister .
 

amigo de christo

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Neither group discerned the body.
This parable deals with the second judgement.
Believers were already judged. By their works. From one of the books. A thousand years prior.

But in this judgement, there is a lot of mercy for some who were not in the first resurrection.
and who soever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire .
I shall not heed the gospel of pope francis and his men and women . STICK TO PREACHING JESUS
or prepare to wail on the day of the Lord . NO more giving out false hope . POPE francis and this all inclusive lie
was spawned by the dragon and given unto those who rejected the gospel , the love of the truth
and wanted pleasure in unrighteousness . THATS RIGHT , ITS A STRONG DELUSION . PREACH JESUS
or move out of the way and LET ME DO IT .