Was the Thief on the Cross Baptized or Not?

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stunnedbygrace

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HUH??? You have gone so far away from discussing the subject of the OP -- whether the thief on the cross was baptized -- that it is bizarre.
Well, I was answering a question asked by Lambano, my sometimes pal. You can just ignore our little side foray if you like.
 

1stCenturyLady

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John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

The conditional action required on the part of a person to prevent him or her soul from perishing, is that his or her soul must "believeth in Him". The one that you believe in is Jesus Christ. All those that believe in Jesus Christ shall not be turned to ashes at judgment day, but shall have everlasting life. The word "everlasting" is better translated from the Greek text, "eternal", because eternal means "from the very beginning of creation of that soul, into the eons of infinity of time, there is no break".

What this is saying then, is that the person's soul would not die, but will live from the time that their soul was created in that first earth age, in the distant past, through this earth age, and right into eternity. There would never be any spots of void in the life of that soul. This eliminates the pagan worship of "soul sleep", such as those that teach that when you die, your soul stays in the ground until a so-called rapture. Their very tradition will lead them to the Antichrist in a short time ahead.

When you take the word "everlasting" as used in John 3:16, and go to Strong's Greek dictionary, # 166, we find, "Aion", "Perpetual, of past time, present and future, eternal, from beginning without end." If you believe on Christ, then you will never see nor taste of death, even when your soul sheds this decaying flesh body. There will be no soul sleep.

The serpent that Moses placed on the pole was an example to the Israelites to obey God, and they would be given life by their believing and obeying, and there were no side trips to perform. Jesus is telling us that this is exactly as it is with eternal life. The pole that we look to is the cross that Jesus Christ shed His blood on, and when we look to Him and accept that shed blood for our forgiveness, through repentance, then we have eternal life. When Nicodemus was talking with Jesus here, the crucifixion had not taken place, but Nicodemus would be one of the men that would prepare Christ's body for burial.

It is nice to be baptized because Christ was, but that is not what gives the eternal life. There is membership in the church, with all the other dos and don'ts it sets forth, but they have nothing to do with your eternal salvation. What is important is that you look to the cross that God's only begotten Son died upon, and believe on His only begotten Son, and friend, that is where eternal life comes from; believing in Jesus Christ the only begotten Son.
Don't let people rob you of the simplicity of God's Word, it is simply those that believe in Him and repented in Jesus name that shall not perish, but have eternal life.

Question , were those who were not baptised before Christ died on the cross not saved?

You say I don't study and yet you don't know what born again really means​

Born again is of the New Covenant. Jesus died during the Old Covenant so your question is mute.
 

1stCenturyLady

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Acts is a transitional Book...ya gotta get past Acts 2 to fully get its message....getting the Holy Spirit indeed is the MUST.....Paul later in that Book shows that people had obtained that mandatory Spirit WITOUT being water baptized....by the end of the Book, Peter is in agreement with Paul....you can get that Spirit by Faith Alone....

Yes, you can get the Holy Spirit by pure repentance. But the Spirit causes us to be obedient in all things, which would include baptism.
 

Jim B

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But how is this eisegesis? It sounds like you've changed your complaint to using a verse out of context.

I'm pointing to a place where Jesus said that "if they tell you He is in the inner room don't believe it", and a place where Thomas was told Jesus had appeared in the inner room, and he didn't believe it. What am I reading into either verse?

I'm saying that Thomas may have been doing exactly what Jesus had said. This goes to his state of mind, which we don't know actually one way or the other, because it isn't told us in Scripture. However, I don't think we should just default to criticizing Thomas' faith, and especially when there is an alternate explanation.

It's common that people criticize Thomas this way, just like Peter also receives a lot of criticism, which is undue in my opinion.

Regardless, this is getting off-topic . . .

Much love!
eisegesis is the process of interpreting text in such a way as to introduce one's own presuppositions, agendas or biases. It is commonly referred to as reading into the text.

You took a single verse out of a section about the end times and applied it to Thomas doubting if Jesus was actually present. The two have nothing in common, as clearly Jesus' appearance to the disciples was at the end of the age.

You are clearly introducing your own presuppositions by reading into the text something that is clearly not there. Context matters!
 

Jim B

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Re: Thomas

You're kidding, right?
1st Century Lady wrote "They should have kicked Thomas out"? So Jesus was wrong???" And I wrote that she disagreed with Jesus' behavior because He didn't "kick Thomas out".

And I am not kidding. Do you think that Jesus acted inappropriately? Should He have kicked Thomas out?
 

Gospel Believer

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Born again is of the New Covenant. Jesus died during the Old Covenant so your question is mute.


The word you are looking for is “ moot”...... not “ mute”....... you are most welcome.....
Yes, you can get the Holy Spirit by pure repentance. But the Spirit causes us to be obedient in all things, which would include baptism.


I guess Judas was “ Spirit Filled” when he hung Himself .....nobody out - repented that man...
 
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1stCenturyLady

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The word you are looking for is “ moot”...... not “ mute”....... you are most welcome.....



I guess Judas was “ Spirit Filled” when he hung Himself .....nobody out - repented that man...

Thank you very much for correcting my spelling. I know I need that.

Why do you think Judas could possibly be Spirit-filled when the Day of Pentecost had not come yet? Nor was he still alive after Jesus arose and blew His Spirit into the living apostles in John 20 before the Day of Pentecost when they received the second filling called the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
 

Ernest T. Bass

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I have an on- going bet.....you want $1000? Show me in the KJV where it says that we must “repent of sins” to be Saved.....good luck.
The exact phrase "repent of sins" is not found in the KJV but that does not mean it is not taught. Simon for example was commanded to "Repent therefore of this thy wickedness" (Acts 8:22). What cannot be found is people being saved who remained impenitent of thier sins, (Rom 2:4-5)
 
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n2thelight

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Can those who refuse to repent of their sins be saved, (Rom 2:4-5; Luke 13:3; Acts 2:38; Acts 17:30; Acts 26:20)?
Now we going into the OSAS , and think that is off the OP

To answer your question though , one must accept Christ to be saved and must repent to stay saved , again there's an OSAS somewhere on this forum
 

Gospel Believer

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Now we going into the OSAS , and think that is off the OP

To answer your question though , one must accept Christ to be saved and must repent to stay saved , again there's an OSAS somewhere on this forum

This is a splendid example of a “ False and Perverted ” Gospel......you’ve sinned millions of times, if you are lucky , you may have “ Repented “ Of a couple of thousand of them....Repentance comes naturally to those that are already saved....a “ fruit” of Salvation....NOT the cause of it....
 

n2thelight

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Yes.....SELF murdered
Noooo

They killed him

Matthew 27:3 "Then Judas, which had betrayed Him, when he saw that He was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,"

Judas is the one that betrayed Jesus for the thirty pieces of silver. Judas saw what these religious leaders had done in condemning Jesus by trial, and bringing Him to Pilate to be crucified, and Judas was sorry for what he had done. Now don't read over this. JUDAS REPENTED HIMSELF. This was not the unforgivable sin that Judas committed, and upon repentance there is forgiveness.

Matthew 27:4 "Saying, "I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood." And they said, "What is that to us? see thou to that."

Notice the pious reaction of these chief priests and elders. There response is what is that to us, we don't care about you. You have to realize that Satan and his own, though they give a flowering speech, when you do their duties and have produced for them, they are finished with you. It is no difference today as then. They used Judas for the betrayal, and then they discarded him. Satan and his children, the Kenites have no respect for anything that is in their way.

This is an prime example as it will be at the coming of the Antichrist. All those dear souls that believe Satan, the Antichrist is the True Christ will be used by him and discarded in the same manner as Judas. That is Satan's manner and character, and that is also the character of the his offspring, the Kenites, only it will be a spiritual death.

Matthew 27:5 "And he cast down the pieces of silver in the Temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself."

hanged - 519 apagchomai (ap-ang'-khom-ahee) from 575 and agcho (to choke; kin to the base of 43); to strangle oneself off (i.e. to death): KJV-- hang himself.

You could hear the genuine ring of the silver as the pieces of silver hit the marble, and rolled on the floor. Many teach that Judas went out and committed suicide here, and they better watch what they say. Analyze it in the Greek for what really happened. The very word "Hanged" means suffocation. It can even mean suffocation with grief.

The reason we are to pay attention to the word "repented", for repentance brings forgiveness. Lets go to Acts 1 to see what the best account of this event has to say. Christ has arose at this point and the ascension has taken place. Jesus told His disciples to wait in Jerusalem for the forty days, and they would receive the filling of the Holy Spirit of God. It was during this wait the Peter discusses what happened surrounding the events of Judas' death.

Acts 1:18; "Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out."

The purchase of the field was made by the Kenite religious leaders, with the thirty pieces of silver that Judas threw on the floor of the temple. Now pay attention: "falling headlong he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out." Why was this? Because He was murdered, he was cut wide open, not hanged as some translators would have you believe. Judas was murdered after he repented, He did not commit suicide as the Kenite traditional doctrine would have you believe. Judas was murdered by having his stomach ripped wide open, and all of his insides gushing and pouring out of him.

Friend, what happens when you repent, is that God says you are forgiven of all sin, except the one of refusing to allow the Holy Spirit of God to speak through you, turning the time when Satan, the Antichrist is walking on this earth. That time has not come yet, and when Judas repented, that evil act, that sin of betraying our Lord was blotted out, just as every evil act committed today is forgiven when repented before the Lord.

It was the Sanhedrin, the high counsel of the Temple was the one that paid the fee to have even Judas delivered up to death, and you have to understand the Kenite mind, to understand why Judas' bowels gushed out. Most of the Christian world has allowed themselves to accept Kenite tradition, over just plain common sense.

 

n2thelight

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This is a splendid example of a “ False and Perverted ” Gospel......you’ve sinned millions of times, if you are lucky , you may have “ Repented “ Of a couple of thousand of them....Repentance comes naturally to those that are already saved....a “ fruit” of Salvation....NOT the cause of it....
What !!! Yes all have sinned and come short , but how can you repent if you are not saved first , also we are forgiven like what 70 Xs 70 ,,
Don't know where you get perversion out of that ,guess we done talking , do you
 

Ernest T. Bass

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Now we going into the OSAS , and think that is off the OP

To answer your question though , one must accept Christ to be saved and must repent to stay saved , again there's an OSAS somewhere on this forum
In post number 99 you made the comment:
".....but how can you repent if you are not saved first..."

You would have one saved BEFORE one repents which that order cannot be found in the NT gospel. The Bible puts repentance BEFORE salvation/remission of sins. No one was saved in the NT while they continued to live impenitently in their sins.

I'm not sure how repentance ties in with OSAS. The Bible does not teach OSAS, it does not teach that salvation is UNconditional regardless to how a person lives, that is, one can become saved and remained saved UNconditinally apart from repentance. Repentance is a CONDITION on salvation.