23 major reasons to reject the Premil doctrine!

[Jay Ross]

The first 2000 years was complete when Abram obeyed God and departed from Ur. He was 52 then.

But Abraham only departed Ur because his father insisted that he leave, because Nimrod wanted to kill both of them.

Abram did not leave his father's household until he was 75 years old. That was when he stepped out on his journey with God to go to an earth that God said, He would show him.

You are clutching at straws to justify your theories.

Genesis 11:10 does NOT say: ended. Adding a year here is wrong.

That is your opinion, but from my understanding if we do not take into account the duration of the flood, which was over one year in duration, then we are in error. I am taking the duration of the flood into account in my calculations. You on the other hand are basing your calculation from when the flood first began when Noah and his family entered the ark. The flood was over for Noah and his family when they left the ark.

With Bible Prophecy: to rely on the writings of anyone before these last days, is a mistake. Daniel 12:4 & 9 say the Words are secret and sealed until the time of the end. Jesus also said; These things, [the Prophesies] are hidden from the wise, their wisdom of the wise will vanish. Matthew 11:25

You have tickets on yourself to think that you have the wisdom to unravel the End Times particularly with your outlandish claims of "wisdom."

As for Lydiat's chronology, I discovered that he had come to a similar conclusion as I had, after I had established my own chronology timeline. Lydiar's chronology only confirmed the work that I had done.

You oppose me because I rattle your cage, the cage of false beliefs you have chosen to follow.
Like many, just the idea of the terrible things that are Prophesied to happen, most likely within our lifetime. is enough for people to make every possible avenue of escape their mantra.
A 'rapture to heaven' - beam me up God, is just about the epitome of foolishness and escapism.
AMill and preterism, are other ways of avoiding the forthcoming dramatic world changes and testing times. Both ideas conflict with plainly stated scripture and are wrong.
Of course people hate to be told such hard truths, and I get harsh opposition, just like the real Prophets of God did.

No, you have not rattled my cage with your false interpretation of the scriptures. But you have caused me to be saddened because you are encouraging an escape from the wrath of the End Times, like the Pre-trib rapture, with your encouragement for "christians" to go to the Land of Canaan so that they will be safe from the consuming fire that God will use to refine the true Saints of God where they are living scattered throughout the whole earth.

You also show the tickets that you have on yourself with you flawed interpretation and understandings of what is to happen during the End Time, by claiming that the harsh opposition to your pet theories is just like what the "real Prophets of God." experienced when they gave the prophecies that God had given them, during the OT times.

 

[Keraz]

But Abraham only departed Ur because his father insisted that he leave, because Nimrod wanted to kill both of them.

J.R. rubbish!
Genesis 12:1 The Lord said to Abram: leave your country........

You are clutching at straws to justify your theories.

Your desperation to hang onto wrong beliefs and avoid the unacceptable truths of the Prophetic Word, is very evident.

 

[Jay Ross]

J.R. rubbish!
Genesis 12:1 The Lord said to Abram: leave your country........

Your desperation to hang onto wrong beliefs and avoid the unacceptable truths of the Prophetic Word, is very evident.

Keraz, why would I accept your so termed "Prophetic Words?" Your understanding is flawed. My understanding also has flaws in it because I have not necessarily grasped the full understanding of God's prophetic words contained in Scripture. I am happy for others to provide a reasoned explanation as to why I might be in error, but you have not done just that. You have invented a "translation/your own paraphrase," of what the source documents provide. You deny that the flood was around one year in duration. Your understanding is that Israel will return to the "Promised Land," whereas my understanding of the "gathering prophecies of Israel to Himself" for Israel is that the scattered Israelites will remain in the places where they have been scattered so that they can become a blessing to the nations around them. My understanding is that this was always God's Plan for Israel. God has said that He will plant them in the fertile soil of Christ and will teach them about the Religion of Christ, and that He will sprinkle water over them to cleanse them so that they can become a kingdom of Priests, a holy nation and God's possession among the nations.

Where is this teaching in your so called "Prophetic Word"? that reflects God's heart for the Nation of Israel.

Your method of rebuttal is to attack the person rather than the content.

You said that I was talking rubbish and quoted part of Gen 12:1.

This is what I had posted: -

But Abraham only departed Ur because his father insisted that he leave, because Nimrod wanted to kill both of them.

Abram did not leave his father's household until he was 75 years old. That was when he stepped out on his journey with God to go to an earth that God said, He would show him.

You are twisting my words to suit your own argument in an effort to paint me in a bad light.

Oh well, each to their own delusions.

 

[Keraz]

Keraz, why would I accept your so termed "Prophetic Words?"

My whole aim and object is to promote and expound on what the Bible Prophets have told us. Preachers avoid talking about it, Hollywood and writers twist and fictionalize it,
Most Christians have no idea of what God plans for our future, or don't care; as they have been fooled by the false 'rapture to heaven' theory.
I repeat; the Prophesies are not my own, they are given by God to us thru His Prophets and we ignore them at our peril.

You are twisting my words to suit your own argument in an effort to paint me in a bad light.

You do that yourself. saying there should be another year for the Flood, when Genesis 11:10 says that Arphaxad was born 2 years after the Flood. Not when the Flood ended, but logically and correctly; when it began.

You have an ethnic Israel, the Jews in the Promised Land, while the Church stays in the world. This is wrong and conflicts with the many Prophesies of how all the Lord's faithful people will be gathered into all of the holy Land. As Romans 9:24-26 say:...in the same place.... and Revelation 7:9, where John sees them in Jerusalem and they acclaim Jesus as their Lord.

Your method of rebuttal is to attack the person rather than the content.

I refute your beliefs. Nothing personal is intended.
What you just said though, is an attack on me personally. Expect to have to account for it.

 

[Jay Ross]

You do that yourself. saying there should be another year for the Flood, when Genesis 11:10 says that Arphaxad was born 2 years after the Flood. Not when the Flood ended, but logically and correctly; when it began.

If we say that the duration of the flood was four years, then by your logic, Arpachshad, if he was born two years after the start of the Flood then he would have been born during the flood, not as the Biblical record records, he was born two years after the flood. Your understanding is illogically and not correct.

but from my understanding if we do not take into account the duration of the flood, which was over one year in duration, then we are in error. I am taking the duration of the flood into account in my calculations. You on the other hand are basing your calculation from when the flood first began when Noah and his family entered the ark. The flood was over for Noah and his family when they left the ark.

Logically, if the bible states that he was born after the flood, then the key word in the verse is "after" and is not after the start of the flood.

My whole aim and object is to promote and expound on what the Bible Prophets have told us.

Since you have admitted that you cannot read or understand the Hebrew Text then you have no means of knowing if what you write is actually correct contextually with the source documents. You are only relying on your belief that the translation scholars actually got the translation right. Your actions are that of a blind man leading blind people along with you into the pit.

This is so sad.

 

[Keraz]

If we say that the duration of the flood was four years,

The Flood started on the 17th day of the 2nd month, Genesis 7:11, and the Ark grounded on the 17 day of the 7th month. Genesis 8:1-4
The Flood lasted until the 1st day of the 1st month, Genesis 8:13 LESS than one year.

Therefore it is error to add 1 year for the Flood.
Why must you make wild assertions and every attempt to discredit me?

You are only relying on your belief that the translation scholars actually got the translation right.

So has God given us a faulty Book? Basically, you are accusing God of giving His people lies and confusion.

 

[Jay Ross]

The Flood started on the 17th day of the 2nd month, Genesis 7:11, and the Ark grounded on the 17 day of the 7th month. Genesis 8:1-4
The Flood lasted until the 1st day of the 1st month, Genesis 8:13 LESS than one year.
Therefore it is error to add 1 year for the Flood.
Why must you make wild assertions and every attempt to discredit me?

The flood began on the 17th day of the second month during the 600 the year of Noah’s life, as per Gen 7:11: -

Gen 7:11: - 11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep were broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.​

Noah was told by God to leave the ark because the flood was over as written in this passage of scripture in Genesis 18: -

Genesis 18: 1 – 19: - The Ark Rests on Ararat​

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18: 1 But God remembered Noah and all the animals and livestock that were with him in the ark. And God sent a wind over the earth, and the waters began to subside. 2 The springs of the deep and the floodgates of the heavens were closed, and the rain from the sky was restrained. 3 The waters receded steadily from the earth, and after 150 days the waters had gone down.​

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4 On the seventeenth day of the seventh month, the ark came to rest on the mountains of Ararat. 5 And the waters continued to recede until the tenth month, and on the first day of the tenth month the tops of the mountains became visible.​

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Noah Sends a Raven and a Dove​

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6 After forty days Noah opened the window he had made in the ark 7 and sent out a raven. It kept flying back and forth until the waters had dried up from the earth.​

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8 Then Noah sent out a dove to see if the waters had receded from the surface of the ground. 9 But the dove found no place to rest her foot, and she returned to him in the ark, because the waters were still covering the surface of all the earth. So he reached out his hand and brought her back inside the ark.​

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10 Noah waited seven more days and again sent out the dove from the ark. 11 And behold, the dove returned to him in the evening with a freshly plucked olive leaf in her beak. So Noah knew that the waters had receded from the earth.​

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12 And Noah waited seven more days and sent out the dove again, but this time she did not return to him.​

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Exiting the Ark​

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13 And it came to pass in the six hundred and first year, in the first month, the first day of the month, that the waters were dried up from the earth; and Noah removed the covering of the ark and looked, and indeed the surface of the ground was dry. 14 And in the second month, on the twenty-seventh day of the month, the earth was dried.​

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15 Then God spoke to Noah, saying, 16 "Go out of the ark, you and your wife, and your sons and your sons' wives with you. 17 Bring out with you every living thing of all flesh that is with you: birds and cattle and every creeping thing that creeps on the earth, so that they may abound on the earth, and be fruitful and multiply on the earth." 18 So Noah went out, and his sons and his wife and his sons' wives with him. 19 Every animal, every creeping thing, every bird, and whatever creeps on the earth, according to their families, went out of the ark.​

Notice that God did not tell Noah to leave the ark until after the 27th day of the 2nd month in the 601st year of Noah’s life.
So the flood was over for Noah when he left the Arc.

Noah left the Arc after: - 601-02-27
Flood rains started: - 600-02-17

From my understanding of the texts, for Noah, he was in the arc during the flood for one year and ten days.

From this I can only assume that your rebuttal is nothing more than a fabrication on your part.

So has God given us a faulty Book? Basically, you are accusing God of giving His people lies and confusion.

Another faulty fabrication. No, I am not saying that God has given us a faulty book. I have great faith in the original Hebrew and Greek texts. However, I do not hold to the same confidence with the scholars and translators who have translated the Hebrew and Greek Texts into our so called translated “English Bibles.”

The intended contextual message in the source documents has not been accurately transferred to our translated bible for a variety of reasons.

The lies and confusion have been given to us by the translators, and not by God as you are insinuating that I am saying.

You are the one who is blind to this and many other issues.

 

[Keraz]

You are the one who is blind to this and many other issues.

A comment made from intransigent foolishness.

The fact remains that there was exactly 2000 years from Adam to Abram, then another exact 2000 years; Abraham to Jesus. Now almost the third 2000 years since Jesus.
All thru the Bible, God uses numbers like 7, 12 and 40, to denote exact times and objects. If you think He mistakenly allowed an extra year to His Plan for the first tranche of years for mankind, then you question God's abilities.

It seems that your aim and object is to sow dissent and to make the obvious fact that we can expect very dramatic world changes soon, of no consequence.

 

[Jay Ross]

A comment made from intransigent foolishness.

The fact remains that there was exactly 2000 years from Adam to Abram, then another exact 2000 years; Abraham to Jesus. Now almost the third 2000 years since Jesus.
All thru the Bible, God uses numbers like 7, 12 and 40, to denote exact times and objects. If you think He mistakenly allowed an extra year to His Plan for the first tranche of years for mankind, then you question God's abilities.

It seems that your aim and object is to sow dissent and to make the obvious fact that we can expect very dramatic world changes soon, of no consequence.

You are right, you can determine the number of years from the creation of Adam to the return of Christ for the final judgement of all of mankind. But sadly, that calculation comes to more than 7,000 years as you are suggesting.

You are making the same mistakes as Ellen White made, by using the wrong signposts from the scriptures, with wrong time frames, to come to an understanding that does not match the prophetic words of God concerning God's timeframe of events for mankind from the time of the creation of Adam until the Final judgement.

For me the next dramatic event that is presently approaching is Armageddon when the kings of the earth will gather to be judged. This event is happening right on que as God's prophetic words reveal. From that prophecy, we are now observing the start of the gathering of the Kings of the earth at the place called Armageddon. Also, just after that time of the Judgement of the kings of the earth, Israel's walking contrary to God, will end when Israel repents of her sins and God gathers them to himself where they are living scattered throughout the earth.

As for intransigent foolishness, you certainly demonstrate that trait yourself in copious volumes.

 

[WPM]

You are right, you can determine the number of years from the creation of Adam to the return of Christ for the final judgement of all of mankind. But sadly, that calculation comes to more than 7,000 years as you are suggesting.

You are making the same mistakes as Ellen White made, by using the wrong signposts from the scriptures, with wrong time frames, to come to an understanding that does not match the prophetic words of God concerning God's timeframe of events for mankind from the time of the creation of Adam until the Final judgement.

For me the next dramatic event that is presently approaching is Armageddon when the kings of the earth will gather to be judged. This event is happening right on que as God's prophetic words reveal. From that prophecy, we are now observing the start of the gathering of the Kings of the earth at the place called Armageddon. Also, just after that time of the Judgement of the kings of the earth, Israel's walking contrary to God, will end when Israel repents of her sins and God gathers them to himself where they are living scattered throughout the earth.

As for intransigent foolishness, you certainly demonstrate that trait yourself in copious volumes.

So true!

 

[Keraz]

So true!

The usual failures to actually address the scriptures presented.
Opinions are worthless and just demonstrate the lack of support for the weird and fanciful beliefs, like the 'rapture and AMill, that violate and oppose scriptural truth.

Israel's walking contrary to God, will end when Israel repents of her sins and God gathers them to himself where they are living scattered throughout the earth.

Obviously, you think that Israel is that nation currently in a small part of the holy Land, consisting of a mixed ethnicity of peoples, who have claimed to be Jewish, quite without any real proof of descent from Judah.
Again; obviously; you have failed to read how God intends to deal with them for their rejection of Jesus and their arrogant belief in their own strength. Nowhere is it said they will repent and be redeemed, they will be wiped out, Isaiah 22:14 and just a Christian remnant will be saved.

 

[WPM]

The usual failures to actually address the scriptures presented.
Opinions are worthless and just demonstrate the lack of support for the weird and fanciful beliefs, like the 'rapture and AMill, that violate and oppose scriptural truth.

Obviously, you think that Israel is that nation currently in a small part of the holy Land, consisting of a mixed ethnicity of peoples, who have claimed to be Jewish, quite without any real proof of descent from Judah.
Again; obviously; you have failed to read how God intends to deal with them for their rejection of Jesus and their arrogant belief in their own strength. Nowhere is it said they will repent and be redeemed, they will be wiped out, Isaiah 22:14 and just a Christian remnant will be saved.

It is actually every form of Premil that lacks support. You know it. You have avoided numerous posts when your theories have been exposed. This is a classic case of projection.

 

[Jay Ross]

Obviously, you think that Israel is that nation currently in a small part of the holy Land, consisting of a mixed ethnicity of peoples, who have claimed to be Jewish, quite without any real proof of descent from Judah.
Again; obviously; you have failed to read how God intends to deal with them for their rejection of Jesus and their arrogant belief in their own strength. Nowhere is it said they will repent and be redeemed, they will be wiped out, Isaiah 22:14 and just a Christian remnant will be saved.

Obviously, you have no idea. Paul in Romans 11:25-26 informs us that all of Israel will be saved after the fulness of the gentiles' decreed allowed time for them to trample God's Sanctuary and God's earthly Hosts has run its full course to its completion.

God, in Gen 15:16, prophesied the 1948 return so some of Abraham's descendants to the Land of Canaan in their own strength, and Christ revealed in Matt 24:32 when God's Everlasting Kingdom was to be established during the time of those kings.

Sadly, you seem to have a fixation on replacement theology, which is not found in the scriptures.

 

[Keraz]

It is actually every form of Premil that lacks support. You know it. You have avoided numerous posts when your theories have been exposed. This is a classic case of projection.

I see now that your trade is Prosecution lawyer. You MO is to attack the credibility of the defendant.
It is seen by all here as waste of time to engage with you.

Sadly, you seem to have a fixation on replacement theology, which is not found in the scriptures.

I demand that you show scriptural proof that ethnic Israel, the Jewish people, will all be saved and redeemed.
I can show you at least 20 Prophesies that say they won't and only a small number of Messianic Jews will survive.

 

[Jay Ross]

I demand that you show scriptural proof that ethnic Israel, the Jewish people, will all be saved and redeemed.
I can show you at least 20 Prophesies that say they won't and only a small number of Messianic Jews will survive.

It seems to me that you are arguing against what is recorded in the scriptures and as such your disagreement is with God.

Please seek His input as to the validity of what you post. From my perspective, God has shown me a very different picture.

Good day and goodbye!

 

[WPM]

I see now that your trade is Prosecution lawyer. You MO is to attack the credibility of the defendant.
It is seen by all here as waste of time to engage with you.

Wrong again. I am looking for any corroboration for your speculations re Rev 20. After years of waiting i have come to the conclusion, you simply don't have anything.

 

[WPM]

I have never 'ignored' anyone. I do quickly scroll over those who constantly repeat themselves and those promoting theories like Amill.

I have come to realize that people who have chosen to believe in a theory or doctrine, such as Amill, or the fantasy of the rapture to heaven, are locked into their beliefs and are actually incapable of changing.
It is understood that to change your beliefs, is an admission of failure and casts questions on all your other beliefs.

There is only one true and correct way to understand the Prophetic Word. That is the way it is Written in our Bibles.

Amill is a direct contradiction of Revelation 20 and a rejection of the truth of God's 7000 year Plan for mankind.

The 'rapture to heaven' is just sci-fi nonsense. Jesus said many times that such a thing was impossible.

Soon; the Lord will change the world, by instigating His terrible Day of vengeance and wrath. Then, the surviving Christian peoples will finally understand their future role, to prepare the world for the glorious Return of Jesus.

Have you found this 7000 year Plan for mankind in the Bible yet?

 

[Keraz]

Have you found this 7000 year Plan for mankind in the Bible yet?

The 7000 years that God has decreed for mankind, is not specifically stated in the Bible. It is in the Epistle of Barnabas and by some of the early Church fathers.
However; it is implied in Genesis 1 and the final thousand years is told to us in Revelation 20.

But the proof of that time is seen in the exact 2000 year time periods between Adam and Abram and Abraham to Jesus. Now the third 2000 year period, is almost up.

Please address these facts and desist from making personal attacks and your usual accusations.

 

[WPM]

The 7000 years that God has decreed for mankind, is not specifically stated in the Bible. It is in the Epistle of Barnabas and by some of the early Church fathers.
However; it is implied in Genesis 1 and the final thousand years is told to us in Revelation 20.

But the proof of that time is seen in the exact 2000 year time periods between Adam and Abram and Abraham to Jesus. Now the third 2000 year period, is almost up.

Please address these facts and desist from making personal attacks and your usual accusations.

LOL. I asked regarding the Bible, not man's opinions. That seems to be the foundation of your core beliefs: what man has taught you. It is time to lean upon the Word of God alone. This might help liberate you of a lot of extra-biblical error.

Anyway, the Epistle of Barnabas nowhere teaches this 7000 years theory. Like many early Amils: he believed in 6000 years then the intro of the future perfect eternal day. Where is your evidence? It is not in Scripture, it is not in the Epistle of Barnabas, where is it? I put it to you, it is in your head. That is it!

 

[Keraz]

LOL. I asked regarding the Bible, not man's opinions. That seems to be the foundation of your core beliefs: what man has taught you. It is time to lean upon the Word of God alone. This might help liberate you of a lot of extra-biblical error.

Anyway, the Epistle of Barnabas nowhere teaches this 7000 years theory. Like many early Amils: he believed in 6000 years then the intro of the future perfect eternal day. Where is your evidence? It is not in Scripture, it is not in the Epistle of Barnabas, where is it? I put it to you, it is in your head. That is it!

Another raft of nasty accusations and your inability to face the facts of history. Of which most IS in the Bible!

Hosea 6:2 After 2 days the Lord will revive us and on the third day, He will raise us to live in His Presence.
The context is about the Return of the Lord, [Jesus] and His Millennium reign, when His people will live in His Presence.

If you like to think that Hosea's Prophecy is not about the 2000 year Church age and then the Millennium, please explain to us what Hosea meant. Any attempt by you to spiritualize it, or to fit it into the past, will be questioned.