The Sinner -Netchaplain

[Netchaplain]

I do not believe the Scriptural definition for sinner is merely “one who sins”, because the Christian isn’t referred to as a sinner, in Scripture. The only passage that appears to indicate Christians are sinners is 1Ti 1:15; “. . . Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.”

The word “am” in the above Scriptural passage is the Greek word “eimi”, pronounced “ā-mē” and can mean, according to context, had been or was. The law of hermeneutics, which is basically “Scripture interpreting Scripture”, calls for the “was” definition in this context. If Paul were admitting he is, at that time, the worst of all sinners, his claim would conflict with the remnant of Scripture, which is devoid of any references that anyone who is of God is a sinner.

This in no way intends that Christians do not sin, which would be a grievous misunderstanding and evidence of great ignorance and self-deception, nor should we allow this concept, or any understanding, to “puff us up” (1Cr 8:1). I believe the issue to sin is partly why, but mostly how. One who is truly of God encounters a continuous conviction of the Spirit’s chastisement when dealing with sin and therefore, the sin committed is never willful because the Spirit will ensure it is always accompanied with remorse and should be confessed.
“For the flesh lusts against the Spirit and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish” (Gal 5:17). “If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness” (1Jhn 1:9).

The why-factor has always been an issue with God, as evidenced by the following Scripture passages: “So, the priest shall make atonement for the person who sins unintentionally, when he sins unintentionally before the LORD, to make atonement for him; and it shall be forgiven him. But the person who does [anything] presumptuously, [whether he is] native-born or a stranger, that one brings reproach on the LORD, and he shall be cut off from among his people” (Num. 15:28, 30). These were in the Mosaic Law to the Jews and the issue concerning the why-factor of sin continues to retain significance. “If we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins” (Heb. 10:26).

I would define a sinner as “one who sins willfully and without regard to God.”

 

[ttruscott]

A good essay here, Netchaplin...I gave you a tick for it, :)

I know "the sin committed is never willful because the Spirit will ensure it is always accompanied with remorse and should be confessed." is to manage the meaning of: “If we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins” (Heb. 10:26).

But I find it hard to separate my choice to sin (when tempted) from my will. Somewhere in there, is always an aquiessence to temptation and a decision to sin.

So I do look elsewhere for another interpretation of Heb 10:26 such as provided by Barnes' Notes on the Bible :

Heb. 10:26

The word rendered "wilfully" - ἑκουσίως hekousiōs - occurs nowhere else in the New Testament, except in 1 Peter 5:2, where it is rendered "willingly" - "taking the oversight thereof (of the church) not by constraint, but willingly." It properly means, "willingly, voluntarily, of our own accord," and applies to cases where no constraint is used.

It is not to be construed here strictly, or metaphysically, for all sin is voluntary, or is committed willingly, but must refer to a deliberate act, where a man means to abandon his religion, and to turn away from God. If it were to be taken with metaphysical exactness, it would demonstrate that every Christian who ever does anything wrong, no matter how small, would be lost.

But this cannot, from the nature of the case, be the meaning. The apostle well knew that Christians do commit such sins (see the notes on Romans 7), and his object here is not to set forth the danger of such sins, but to guard Christians against apostasy from their religion.

Peace, Ted

 

[Episkopos]

I do not believe the Scriptural definition for sinner is merely “one who sins”, because the Christian isn’t referred to as a sinner, in Scripture. The only passage that appears to indicate Christians are sinners is 1Ti 1:15; “. . . Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.”

The word “am” in the above Scriptural passage is the Greek word “eimi”, pronounced “ā-mē” and can mean, according to context, had been or was. The law of hermeneutics, which is basically “Scripture interpreting Scripture”, calls for the “was” definition in this context. If Paul were admitting he is, at that time, the worst of all sinners, his claim would conflict with the remnant of Scripture, which is devoid of any references that anyone who is of God is a sinner.

This in no way intends that Christians do not sin, which would be a grievous misunderstanding and evidence of great ignorance and self-deception, nor should we allow this concept, or any understanding, to “puff us up” (1Cr 8:1). I believe the issue to sin is partly why, but mostly how. One who is truly of God encounters a continuous conviction of the Spirit’s chastisement when dealing with sin and therefore, the sin committed is never willful because the Spirit will ensure it is always accompanied with remorse and should be confessed.
“For the flesh lusts against the Spirit and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish” (Gal 5:17). “If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness” (1Jhn 1:9).

The why-factor has always been an issue with God, as evidenced by the following Scripture passages: “So, the priest shall make atonement for the person who sins unintentionally, when he sins unintentionally before the LORD, to make atonement for him; and it shall be forgiven him. But the person who does [anything] presumptuously, [whether he is] native-born or a stranger, that one brings reproach on the LORD, and he shall be cut off from among his people” (Num. 15:28, 30). These were in the Mosaic Law to the Jews and the issue concerning the why-factor of sin continues to retain significance. “If we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins” (Heb. 10:26).

I would define a sinner as “one who sins willfully and without regard to God.”

One cannot sin if one remains in Christ . If we abide in Him we cannot sin.

 

[Netchaplain]

"Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God" (1Jhn 3:9).
The "seed" is what cannot sin and this is our new nature, which is how we are partakers of His divine nature (2Pe 1:4). Paul admitted he still, at what ever level, served sin with his old nature and served God with his new nature; "So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin" (Rom 7:25).

Paul wrote that it was ouf of his carnal-sinful nature that he did wrong; "Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me" (Rom 7:17, 20).

The Lord ensures we live more by the new nature--through the Spirit, than by the old nature; "For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would" (Gal 5:17).

 

[jiggyfly]

"Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God" (1Jhn 3:9).
The "seed" is what cannot sin and this is our new nature, which is how we are partakers of His divine nature (2Pe 1:4). Paul admitted he still, at what ever level, served sin with his old nature and served God with his new nature; "So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin" (Rom 7:25).

Paul wrote that it was ouf of his carnal-sinful nature that he did wrong; "Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me" (Rom 7:17, 20).

The Lord ensures we live more by the new nature--through the Spirit, than by the old nature; "For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would" (Gal 5:17).

Hey NC, I really like your posts they are neat, orderly and in small paragraphs. John 3, where Jesus talks with Nicodemus, is it possibled that He may of been speaking of the nation of Israel and the millennial reign?

 

[Netchaplain]

Hi ttruscott! This is the heart of the matter: "Somewhere in there, is always an aquiessence to temptation." The presence of sin isn't the issue, it's what we do about it that counts. We either count on Christ's attoning sacrafice of His Cross to deal with it or do we struggle with it by attempting to deal with it in our own power.




Hi Jiggyfly! Thanks for your compliments as I'm always encouraged to see others find growth in the Scriptures. Concerning "born again" I believe Christ is universal in His address to Nicodemus but as in everything eternal, God gives the Jews first exposure, then the Gentiles. Concerning "the kingson of God" I believe Christ isn't referring so much to the millennial time, but more so to the kingdom of God, which is eternal, such as the New Earth. The Earth during the millennial time will be as it is now, not new yet and then it will "pass away"(Mat 24:35) after the millennial.

 

[haz]

I agree with Episkopos, "One cannot sin if one remains in Christ . If we abide in Him we cannot sin."

Regarding 1Timothy 1:15 where Paul claims to be chief of sinners, this is referring to his past when you consider 1Tim 1:13. He was a "blasphemer, a persecutor and injurious" person, hence the claim of chief sinner. Now as a Christian he is no longer like this, hence no longer a sinner, let alone chief sinner.

If we use God's definitions of sin then we can see why 1John3:9 says Christians cannot sin. Man's definitions of sin are ambiguous and have led to much misunderstanding of God's word.

God’s definitions of sin are basically covered by the following examples:
1: Mark3:29 Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. This sin will not be forgiven. Christians do not commit this sin.
2: John16:9 Unbelief in Jesus. This is the sin the world is convicted of. Christians do not commit this sin either.
3: 1John 5:17 “all unrighteousness is sin”. Christians are righteous in Christ so here we do not sin.
4: 1John 3:4 “Sin is transgression of the law”. This is breaking the 10 commandments resulting in a death penalty for transgression.
Christians cannot be accused of sin here as we are not under the law of sin and death. The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus SETS FREE from the law of sin and death, (Romans 8:2).
Regarding the law of sin and death it should be noted that:
“whatever the law says it says to those who are UNDER IT” (Romans 3:19,20).
“the law was NOT MADE for a righteous person (Christians), but for…the ungodly and for sinners” (1Tim 1:9).
“where there is NO LAW there is NO TRANSGRESSION (SIN)” (Rom4:15).

We know sin was dealt with once and for all on the cross.
And “Our old man is crucified with Christ, that the body of sin might be destroyed” Romans 6:6.
Hence we see in 1Peter 4:1 “Therefore, since Christ suffered (crucified) for us in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same mind (our old man crucified with him. Romans 6:6), for he who has suffered in the flesh (Romans 6:6) has CEASED from sin,”.

Of course we still see Christians doing wrong (erroneously referred to as sin under man’s ambiguous definitions), but as sons of God we are chastised for our wrong. King David's adultery and murder an example.

Romans 6:2 asks “HOW shall we that are dead to sin, live in it any longer?”.
1John 3:9 answers this question. “Whoever has been born of God DOES NOT SIN, for His seed remains in him; and he CANNOT sin, because he has been born of God”.

Also consider 1Peter 4:18 “If the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and sinner appear”.
Clearly there are 2 different groups described here.
Group 1: Righteous (and saved).
Group 2: Ungodly/Sinner (unsaved).
Either we are righteous (in Christ) OR we are sinners. We CAN”T be both.

Truly Jesus set us FREE from sin (John 8:36). Christians are saints and not sinners.

 

[Netchaplain]

Very usable and applicable post Haz. Thanks for your sharing, it's good input!

You may already be aware that the Christian has two natures (old/new). Sin still lives within us ("sin that dwells in me"; Rom 7:17, 20) but we no longer serve sin as a ruler ("Let not therefore reign"; Rom 6:12). The born- again, "I myself, serves the law of God". We "are dead to sin" (Rom 6:2) but sin is not dead to us (Rom 7:23). Sin lives in us but we do not live by it. "So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin" (Rom 7:25).

My intention with this post is to understand that a sinner isn't what he is because he sins, but sins because he's a sinner. "This in no way intends that Christians do not sin, which would be a grievous misunderstanding on my part and evidence of great ignorance and self-deception" (my original post).

I also find the following commentator helpful concerning "So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin" (Rom 7:25).

"He divides himself as it were into two parts, the mind, by which he means his inward man, his renewed self; and "the flesh," by which he designs his carnal I, that was sold under sin: and hereby he accounts for his serving, at different times, two different laws; "the law of God," written on his mind, and in the service of which he delighted as a regenerate man; "and the law of sin," to which he was sometimes carried captive: and it should be taken notice of, that he does not say "I have served," as referring to his past state of unregeneracy, but "I serve," as respecting his present state as a believer in Christ, made up of flesh and spirit; which as they are two different principles, regard two different laws: add to all this, that this last account the apostle gives of himself, and which agrees with all he had said before, and confirms the whole, was delivered by him, after he had with so much faith and fervency given thanks to God in a view of his future complete deliverance from sin; which is a clinching argument and proof that he speaks of himself, in this whole discourse concerning indwelling sin, as a regenerate person." -Gill

 

[haz]

Hi Netchaplin,

I agree that Christians still do wrong at times. Whilst our lifestyle often does improve as we grow as Christians we do still slip up at times. But, when applying God's definitions of sin we see that the label 'sin' does not apply to Christians.

Note Romans 3:25: "Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past,"
As it was only our PAST sins that were forgiven, that means there is no more forgiveness of sin after this.
Remember the definitions of sin?
If your under the law and transgress it, you are a sinner (1john3:4, Galatians 2:18).
If your in unbelief (john16:9) your in sin. And establishing righteousness through works of the law is not submitting to the righteousness of God (Rom 10:3), hence it is unbelief.
Unrighteousness is sin (1john5:17). In otherwords if your in unblief (without Christ) you do not have his righteousness imputed to you. Also our own righteousness is as filthy rags.

You mentioned the flesh and Spirit natures from Romans. Did you notice Rom 7:5 "when we WERE in the flesh" and Rom 8:9 "But ye are NOT in the flesh, but in the Spirit".
Romans 7 and Galataians 5:17 speaks of the battle between flesh and Spirit. Who will rule in us? Either flesh OR Spirit.

If the flesh rules then such people are seeking to establish their own righteousness without Christ. Rom 7 and Gal 5 explain how being in the flesh is being under the law. Being under the law is making yourself a transgressor/sinner (Gal: 2:18). Being in the flesh you serve sin and are of the devil (John8:34, 1John3:8).

But, if we are Christians then the Spirit rules in us and our righteousness is by faith (Gal 5:5). We "cannot sin' (1John3:9), we've 'ceased from sin' (1Pet 4:1), we're 'freed from sin' (Rom 6:7), and become 'servants of righteousness' (Rom 6:18.).
Being led by the Spirit we are not under the law (Gal 5:18) and remember where there is no law there is no transgression/sin (Rom 4:15).

Romans 7:25 you quoted says: "So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin".
The mind speaks of the Spirit. So if the Spirit rules in us then we serve the law of God. BUT, if the flesh rules then we serve the law of sin, seeking to establish our own righteousness and not wanting to submit to the righteousness of God (Rom 10:3).

Remember it was ONLY our PAST sin that was forgiven (Rom 3:25). Now, as Christians we have submitted to the righteousness of God. In Christ we are righteous, holy (Rom 11:16), sanctified (Heb 10:10) and perfected (Heb 10:14), and cannot sin (1John3:9).

blessings

 

[aspen]

Glad I clicked on this thread - really good insight.