If atheists get accused of taking verses out of context, how do we know fundamentalists making those accusations aren’t doing the same as well?

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ScottA

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If your god is a fact then so is the tooth fairy.

I know these things (as far as the now being all there is) because that’s the experience we all share. It’s just intuitive, it doesn’t need any books like a Bible for example. Everything that has occurred or will occur, takes place in the now. The past was a “now”. Tomorrow will still be “now”. You said it yourself that time is an illusion, Einstein has said the same thing.
Your answer only indicates that you have assumed what is true, rather than actually know what is true.

What is missing in your idea of "that's the experience we all share", is that some have and do experience more. I am one, therefore I do not say it is "intuitive" or that I assume what would appear to be obvious, but rather that I [actually] know.

Certainly you do not think you know everything. Why then would you simply reject what you do not know? And I can anticipate that it is because you have considered enough to form your own idea of what is true...whether it is or not. Some simply stop before looking over the edge to see what is beyond. That's fine. But I can tell you, it is not all there is...because I know.
 

Romanov2488

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Your answer only indicates that you have assumed what is true, rather than actually know what is true.

What is missing in your idea of "that's the experience we all share", is that some have and do experience more. I am one, therefore I do not say it is "intuitive" or that I assume what would appear to be obvious, but rather that I [actually] know.

Certainly you do not think you know everything. Why then would you simply reject what you do not know? And I can anticipate that it is because you have considered enough to form your own idea of what is true...whether it is or not. Some simply stop before looking over the edge to see what is beyond. That's fine. But I can tell you, it is not all there is...because I know.

Do you not live in the now? Do you not think about the past in the now? Is the now not where everything happens?

And I don’t reject what I don’t know, that is your own assumption. You are projecting assuming onto me. I simply said “God” as a being is an unfalsifiable claim.
 

St. SteVen

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What makes a fundamentalist think that their interpretation of the Bible is the one and true interpretation? Are they not acting as if they are God themselves when they assume that their interpretation must be infallible? I’ve never once heard a fundamentalist say that they could be reading the Bible wrong, they’re the only ones who hold the correct interpretation and everyone else is taking it out of context-except for them.
Interesting topic, thanks.

This is a legitimate issue. (as quoted above) I am a recovering evangelical.
I encounter this issue all the time on the forum. I prefer to build bridges, not walls.

It's easy for a "fundamentalist" to find a religious cult.
They are in the church right across the street from yours. And they feel the same way about you.
What does this accomplish?
And also, how does it make any sense for a believer to say they don’t know what the future holds, but then turn around and say that you will come before God, in the future of course, after you die? I thought they don’t know what the future holds.
This is a weak point. IMHO
We don't know what the future holds. Better to say, we know WHO holds the future.
Also, how can a believer know anything at all when they say, “Only God knows”? If only God knows, then we cannot know anything at all, not even that God knows. It’s self-defeating.
Another weak point.
The term “Only God knows” is in reference to a mystery, not general knowledge. As far as I know.
Am I missing something here?
 

St. SteVen

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The

The Holy Spirit told me that people like Enoch are hypocrites and heretics. It’s the correct interpretation because I was guided by the Holy Spirit like he said would happen.
LOL
That's a good challenge to the house of cards built by religion.
I see this sort of thing all the time. Someone plays "the God card" to end all discussion.
Typically, "God says ______________, and you say ______________. Who should I believe?" (goodbye)
 

St. SteVen

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Romanov2488 said:

So God stopped being God while still being God?

I’ve never met a Christian who can think for himself. Your religion is all about obedience and conformity. cc: @Romanov2488
LOL! He stepped outside the glory of God in His humanity. I don't expect you to understand that!
That smacks of superiority. (I'm seeing a pattern)
Why wouldn't you expect him to understand that?
Are you blaming others for your own lack of good communication skills?

I know, I know... I probably do the same thing.
But we are talking about YOU right now! - LOL
 

St. SteVen

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Enoch111 said:
Because when you compare Scripture with Scripture under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, you do arrive at the correct interpretation. But since atheists do not even believe that there is a God, what should you expect from them other than NONSENSE?
Case closed! :)
Nonsense.
Several theologians could claim the same thing and arrive at different conclusions.
There is no consensus. Case re-opened. ;)
 
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Romanov2488

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Interesting topic, thanks.

This is a legitimate issue. (as quoted above) I am a recovering evangelical.
I encounter this issue all the time on the forum. I prefer to build bridges, not walls.

It's easy for a "fundamentalist" to find a religious cult.
They are in the church right across the street from yours. And they feel the same way about you.
What does this accomplish?

This is a weak point. IMHO
We don't know what the future holds. Better to say, we know WHO holds the future.

Another weak point.
The term “Only God knows” is in reference to a mystery, not general knowledge. As far as I know.
Am I missing something here?
Knowing “who” holds the future is just a way to pussyfoot about knowing what the future holds. It’s like saying, “I didn’t make these things up, the Bible says it.” Yeah but you support the Bible, only trying to shift blame. Christians hide behind their Bible or some authority as a means of covering up their own so that they can appear humble.

“I’m not arrogant because my Bible says I’ll make it to heaven and you won’t. I’m merely repeating what the Bible says. One day you shall face judgement and come before God! According to the Bible, of course.”

And with regards to when I said “Only God knows”, you said that it’s referring to mystery, not general knowledge. But “general knowledge” is always changing and being corrected. It’s not general knowledge after all. 600 years ago, it was general knowledge to think that the earth was flat.
 
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Romanov2488

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Enoch111 said:
Because when you compare Scripture with Scripture under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, you do arrive at the correct interpretation. But since atheists do not even believe that there is a God, what should you expect from them other than NONSENSE?

Nonsense.
Several theologians could claim the same thing and arrive a different conclusions.
There is no consensus. Case re-opened. ;)
The theologian has to be guided by the Holy Spirit. That’s how we know that whatever that theologian says, is the word of God.
 
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Charlie24

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Romanov2488 said:

So God stopped being God while still being God?

I’ve never met a Christian who can think for himself. Your religion is all about obedience and conformity. cc: @Romanov2488

That smacks of superiority. (I'm seeing a pattern)
Why wouldn't you expect him to understand that?
Are you blaming others for your own lack of good communication skills?

I know, I know... I probably do the same thing.
But we are talking about YOU right now! - LOL

Romano is someone I've met on another site, If I remember correctly he's an atheist.

He constantly opposes the Word of God in every way he can.

He has no understanding whatsoever of the ways of God.
 
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Romanov2488

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Romano is someone I've met on another site, If I remember correctly he's an atheist.

He constantly opposes the Word of God in every way he can.

He has no understanding whatsoever of the ways of God.
The “word of god” differs from person to person. I don’t oppose it, I simply point out the house of cards it’s based upon. Understanding of God’s ways also differs from person to person.
 

Ronald David Bruno

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What makes a fundamentalist think that their interpretation of the Bible is the one and true interpretation?
They have the Holy Spirit who confirms His presense with them. We have a relationship with Jesus, the Father and the Holy Spirit. It is not just about knowledge of the truth, it is about a relationship.
An orphan can read about their father who really love thems but was separated from them at birth. Many people can come alongside this orphan who know his father and tell them all about his life, what a good man he was but it is just a story to the orphan that he doesn't really believe, because he hasn't seen him or talked to him.m or felt his love. Then one day, he shows up. His father demonstrates his love and the boy receives it with open arms, a dream that he always had, was now answered. They commune together and the boy learns all about his father.
This reminds me of that movie, "August Rush" love it.
Are they not acting as if they are God themselves when they assume that their interpretation must be infallible?
Well yes, in a way. God lives in us so we are ONE. We think his thoughts, He gives us truth and we just share it. God speaks through us ... at times. Now there are mixed signals too, things we think are comingbfrom God that are not things we are confused about. Go dgoces us bits and pieces butbnot full knowledge from day one. We must study, pray and in time learn. Certain truths of the Bible we don't get right away because we are not ready. God must first bring us through experiences for us to learn from, experiences where tuat scripture is mire applicable. Experience is key. Billy Graham said some scriptures he read a hundred times and onlybreceived a superficial basic understanding until decades later, a light went on when he received a deeper spiritual meaning that God gave him. Spiritual growth takes time.
how does it make any sense for a believer to say they don’t know what the future holds, but then turn around and say that you will come before God, in the future of course, after you die?
Events in the Bible pertaining to the future are certain to happen. Some Christians have little understanding of the scriptures and others have much. We are on all different levels, learning and growing in our faith. And faith is a gift, so according to God's purpose for a person's life, He gives and equips some for great things and the some just enough to get in the door. Many things outside of scripture are the same. Some people are very knowledgable and some are not.
As Christians, most of us know the fundamentals and si we can be certain about those, the essentuals. But there are non-essentials, doctrines that we argue about, are unsure of and hense divisions form within the body.
Therebis one life, one death and then the judgment. So in the end all come before God and are judged. Christians have been forgiven theor sins so will not be judged for sin. They will be judged concernings rewards for their service and howbthey used the gifts God gave them.
Also, how can a believer know anything at all when they say, “Only God knows”?
That statement is subjective. Again some people know lots but still in certain areas and circumstances, the details concerning events not written in the Bible, we can only say, Only God Knows.
 

Romanov2488

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They have the Holy Spirit who confirms His presense with them. We have a relationship with Jesus, the Father and the Holy Spirit. It is not just about knowledge of the truth, it is about a relationship.
An orphan can read about their father who really love thems but was separated from them at birth. Many people can come alongside this orphan who know his father and tell them all about his life, what a good man he was but it is just a story to the orphan that he doesn't really believe, because he hasn't seen him or talked to him.m or felt his love. Then one day, he shows up. His father demonstrates his love and the boy receives it with open arms, a dream that he always had, was now answered. They commune together and the boy learns all about his father.
This reminds me of that movie, "August Rush" love it.

Well yes, in a way. God lives in us so we are ONE. We think his thoughts, He gives us truth and we just share it. God speaks through us ... at times. Now there are mixed signals too, things we think are comingbfrom God that are not things we are confused about. Go dgoces us bits and pieces butbnot full knowledge from day one. We must study, pray and in time learn. Certain truths of the Bible we don't get right away because we are not ready. God must first bring us through experiences for us to learn from, experiences where tuat scripture is mire applicable. Experience is key. Billy Graham said some scriptures he read a hundred times and onlybreceived a superficial basic understanding until decades later, a light went on when he received a deeper spiritual meaning that God gave him. Spiritual growth takes time.

Events in the Bible pertaining to the future are certain to happen. Some Christians have little understanding of the scriptures and others have much. We are on all different levels, learning and growing in our faith. And faith is a gift, so according to God's purpose for a person's life, He gives and equips some for great things and the some just enough to get in the door. Many things outside of scripture are the same. Some people are very knowledgable and some are not.
As Christians, most of us know the fundamentals and si we can be certain about those, the essentuals. But there are non-essentials, doctrines that we argue about, are unsure of and hense divisions form within the body.
Therebis one life, one death and then the judgment. So in the end all come before God and are judged. Christians have been forgiven theor sins so will not be judged for sin. They will be judged concernings rewards for their service and howbthey used the gifts God gave them.

That statement is subjective. Again some people know lots but still in certain areas and circumstances, the details concerning events not written in the Bible, we can only say, Only God Knows.
Anyone can claim they have the Holy Spirit in them.

Many Christians disagree on the “fundamentals”, actually. If you put a Catholic and Protestant in a room, they will have their own ideas of what is fundamental.
 
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Charlie24

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The “word of god” differs from person to person. I don’t oppose it, I simply point out the house of cards it’s based upon. Understanding of God’s ways also differs from person to person.

Are you the Atheist that I met on City Data Forums that opposed the Word of God I presented on every front?

You have a different username here but I recognize the pattern of speech.
 

bbyrd009

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Do you not live in the now? Do you not think about the past in the now? Is the now not where everything happens?

And I don’t reject what I don’t know, that is your own assumption. You are projecting assuming onto me. I simply said “God” as a being is an unfalsifiable claim.
it is difficult for a believer to admit that God simply does not exist (“objective evidence”) yet might be entirely real all the same. The ancient Hebrews did not fashion an incomprehensible Name, nor an empty room for a holy of holies for nothing, it seems.

and again, Jesus gave the highest praise to the Samaritan and the Pagan, so idt belief in God is any kind of standard. If you say you do not believe in Yah and yet go on to do the will of Yah, then you are considered a son, as near as i can tell
you kno
Anyone can claim they have the Holy Spirit in them.

Many Christians disagree on the “fundamentals”, actually. If you put a Catholic and Protestant in a room, they will have their own ideas of what is fundamental.
you know that there is verse about that too, right
 

Romanov2488

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Are you the Atheist that I met on City Data Forums that opposed the Word of God I presented on every front?

You have a different username here but I recognize the pattern of speech.
What do you consider the word of God?
 

bbyrd009

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Events in the Bible pertaining to the future are certain to happen
this is the inevitable end of those who are certain, Ron
He who says that he knows anything does not yet know it as he ought

you are certain that those events will happen in the future because that is your frame of mind, and thus your frame of reference, but you are going to be disappointed, just like the guy in the picture, ok. Change your mind, and see how all of those future events might happen today, imo.
 

bbyrd009

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Context of Scripture determines that, Romanov.

It can be Christ (the Eternal Logos/the Word) or it can be the Holy Bible (the Written Word).
“In the beginning was the Bible, and the Bible was with God, and the Bible was God”

“its like this and like that and like this”