St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
Thanks.He is talking about the Sacraments.
The Sacraments (Grace) require works to bear fruit? Explain, thanks.
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Thanks.He is talking about the Sacraments.
I also didn’t understand his phrase. Waiting on an answer from him.Interesting topic, thanks.
Requires?
Grace requires works?
Grace requires works to bear fruit?
Not sure what this means.
Grace has no requirements; otherwise it isn't grace, as I understand grace.
Perhaps you need to define what you mean by "grace".
Not sure why these disciplines would be considered "works" that are the "required" "fruit" of "grace".
This is not my understanding of either works, or fruit, or grace. Please explain. Thanks.
You included a pile of scriptures, none of which mention these disciplines, that I could see. TLDR
Worst case, an idea for a username... stunnedbysacraments (Yikes, that's REAL wine!) - LOLI also didn’t understand his phrase. Waiting on an answer from him.
In my mind, what he said translated to: Gods power (grace) requires works because works lead to fruit?
This went over my head…oh, the one person said he meant sacraments for works. Lol. Okay.Worst case, an idea for a username... stunnedbysacraments (Yikes, that's REAL wine!) - LOL
Actually happened to me in Europe.
I believe, in the Catholic view, the Sacraments are the means to Grace. I will gladly stand corrected if I got that wrong.Thanks.
The Sacraments (Grace) require works to bear fruit? Explain, thanks.
Ah, okay. I didn’t know that.I believe, in the Catholic view, the Sacraments are the means to Grace. I will gladly stand corrected if I got that wrong.
Thanks.I believe, in the Catholic view, the Sacraments are the means to Grace. I will gladly stand corrected if I got that wrong.
Oops. Better add a return there. Second half is not scripture. Thanks. (return to sender) - LOLRomans 11:6 - And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.
What do you make of this?Eternal salvation has zero nada zip to do with good works. It can't because there is nothing redemptive about a lost person trying to get to heaven by their good behaviour. A lost person remains lost in their attempts to earn Eternal life. It's impossible to do. It had to be a gift by Jesus, unmerited and unfavoured and unearned.
As those of a Protestant evangelical background (assuming), we tend to view Grace as a singular thing relating to the salvation of our souls.I don’t know what that poster meant either. Did they mean the ceremonial sacraments of the church? I guess they had to because God has performed the sacraments in me - I couldn’t circumcise my own heart or baptize myself with the Spirit…so they couldn’t be ”good works prepared for us to do” if we can’t DO them…!
They Wouldn’t be trying to get to heaven . They would be just following the law written on their hearts. Instinctively.there is nothing redemptive about a lost person trying to get to heaven by their good behaviour.
What do you make of this?
Romans 2:14-16 NIV
(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.
--- AND THIS ---
Matthew 25:34-36 NIV
“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
Yes. It’s sort of like the bad doctrines teach us we already have the prize from the box of Cracker Jacks and there would be no point to further digging. But it’s deception. Yes, okay, if you receive the down payment of the Spirit you will live forever. But that’s not the whole gospel and in a great house there are BOTH vessels of honor and vessels of dishonor.As those of a Protestant evangelical background (assuming), we tend to view Grace as a singular thing relating to the salvation of our souls.
However, grace is broader than that. We experience grace, and graces, daily, weekly, or whenever. Smaller graces. As I understand it.
I had a career in Graphic Design. (designer, art director, creative director)St Steven, why do you spell out the numbers in your signature line?
I’ve never seen anyone do that. :)
Why two colons though. I vaguely remember seeing that in a portion of some archaic text and researching…it meant something about…further information or side notes I think?I had a career in Graphic Design. (designer, art director, creative director)
I like to play with typography. (fonts) Glad you noticed and enjoyed (?) it.
See more at: behance.com/s_lundgren
What does verse sixteen say? Anything about belief in Jesus?A lost person can still call out for salvation..believe on Jesus Christ..under conviction from the Holy Spirit. I'm no calvinist. I don't believe in salvation before belief in Jesus.
I don't think that will hold up under review. IMHOBut scripture is plain a lost person can't attain a place in heaven.
No literary meaning, only visual. Kind of creates a square?Why two colons though. I vaguely remember seeing that in a portion of some archaic text and researching…it meant something about…further information or side notes I think?