First Work of Faith: Confessing Jesus Christ

[robert derrick]

“But though I be rude in speech, yet not in knowledge…” (2 Corinthians 11:6)

Hey Robert.

It’s all good.

I appreciate your admonition.

Woa. I just had to delete my final post to you. I am ashamed, because I doubted your honesty.

I too at times have just posted what I believe without arguing. Recently I took a break for about a month without posting. I believe that's why Paul walked across the Isthmus alone, after disputing in the School of Tyrannus for a couple years.

God bless you Michiah-Imla. May the Lord help you in living and preaching righteousness and not excusing sinning for yourself nor any man.

 

[Gilligan]

Halleluiah brother Gilligan. Skipper would give you a pat on the back.

You're dating yourself like me.

This is an honest challenge to what I argue, and to tell you the truth I don't have ready answer for this particular point.

Ok.

One difference I can think of is, that our words are works like God's, except that we can judged for our words like works, but not God's.

However, are words do make things by speaking them:

For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Lies are made by the devil and men speaking them, that work to destroy the truth and faith of God. Lies are works that are made by speaking them, the same as heresies.

Ok. And so the only thing about it, is if transferring work of God by spoken words, to spoken words of man also being works, is not true because God speaks His works into existence, and man doesn't.

So this is not perfectly true. Men words can make something. A lie, but not like Jesus of course, who never makes a lie by His words. Words also produce things that are made as a result of them.

And so, in this particular point, I would say we do not make things from nothing by our words like God; however, we do made lies by lying words, and we do have things made from things by our words.

Ok. So if God's words making things is His work, and men's word can make things also, then we are closer to men's spoken words are also work, just like God's. We are made in His image afterall, and we are supposed to be like God in Christ, just without creating physical things by our words alone from nothing.

But, I believe the point is made: God calls His words, His works, and God says we are judged by our words as being works. The firs work of being saved we do with God, is to confess with our mouth the Lord Jesus. We must do the work of speaking those words from the heart, which requires resisting the devil to flee from us, who says that is a lie, and Jesus is not Christ, Lord, and God.

Resisting the devil is work by faith. Some of the hardest work of all is in the mind, to resist temptation. I believe the clincher here is that Jesus was so hard at work resisting the devil, that He sweated blood. And our warfare is work of faith to cast down temptation and vain imagination.

I would say the first work of salvation is confessing with the mouth, and is in conjunction of the work of the spirit to put down any thoughts that speak against it. Spiritual and physical works go hand in hand, and there is not one without the other. I believe this is the whole crux about being justified with works, and not thoughts alone. If our outer works are not showing the righteousness of God, then our inner faith we think is saving us, is a fraud. We can think and believe what we want, but without the outer works, which begins with confessing Jesus, we are fooling and lying to ourselves. Maybe that's one of the lies that we love to make no matter what we are doing at the time?

I can agree that the outer work of confession is hand in hand with the inner work of righteousness, so that there is not one without the other.

So you at least agree that our words are works also, that we are judged by, and heresies are works of the flesh?

Yes.

This is why you give a good challenge. You don't deny Scripture and then just go on and repeat your own doctrine.

I hope not.

Amen. I had not thought of it that way before. Following after faith alone saviors. Cute. There be many such false christs.

This is true. I'm the same way still, but I must believe what is written, and not be afraid to say it as written.

If you say so.

I do know that there is a lot of Christian tradition out there, that I have been divested of, especially the devilish one of being born of the devil with his sin nature in our seed and skin tissues.

Oh brother, don't get me started on that one. One problem at a time please.;)

 

[mailmandan]

David in NJ - post #11 said: Oh Boy, i'm in trouble now - LOL

Confessing with your mouth the Lord Jesus is not a work unto salvation.................LOL

Amen! Confessing with your mouth that Jesus is Lord is an expression of faith and not a work for salvation. The word of faith is in our mouth and in our heart TOGETHER.

It is the essence of Faith (not a work) speaking from within us that which the Holy Spirit imparted to us.

I've heard certain people misinterpret Romans 10:9,10 in such a way which means we can believe unto righteousness today, but are still lost until we confess Christ, which may be next week and then we are finally saved next week, but that is not what Paul is talking about here. Also, someone who is moot (unable to speak) would remain lost according to that erroneous interpretation of Romans 10:9,10 for failing to verbally confess with their mouth.

Confessing with our mouth that Jesus is Lord and believing in our heart that God raised Him from the dead are not two separate steps to salvation but are chronologically together. Romans 10:8 - But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (TOGETHER) that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, (notice the reverse order from verse 9-10) - that if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Confess/believe; believe/confess.

God does the work of Salvation in us = we just follow His Call and move of the Spirit from within.

1 Corinthians 12:3 - Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except BY the Holy Spirit. There is divine influence or direct operation of the Holy Spirit in the heart of a person when confessing Jesus as Lord. This confession is not just a simple acknowledgment that Jesus is the Lord (even the demons believe that), but is a deep personal conviction, that Jesus is that person's Lord and Savior. So simply believing in our head (and not in our heart) that God raised Him from the dead does not result in righteousness and simply giving lip service to the words "Jesus is Lord" not by the Holy Spirit is not unto salvation.

AFTER Salvation is imparted to us then God leads us in His works of righteousness which HE Alone prepared for us that we should walk in. For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. Ephesians 2:8-10

Amen! We are saved by grace through faith, NOT WORKS, we are then His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus FOR/UNTO good works, which God which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Your work salvation is a false gospel.

False gospel indeed. The apostle Paul gives a strong warning about embracing a different gospel which is a perversion of the gospel of Christ. (Galatians 1:6-9) Paul also explains why people do not believe the gospel. (2 Corinthians 4:3,4)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

We are justified or condemned by the words of our mouth: those who confess the Lord Jesus are saved and justified by Christ. There is neither salvation nor justification for them that confess not the Lord Jesus.

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Those that confess not the Lord Jesus Christ are condemned already, because they do not believe from the heart Jesus Christ is Lord.

Faith alone is dead and unbelieving, until confession is made of the Lord Jesus unto salvation and justification of God.

God commands to hear the words of our mouth the Lord Jesus, to save us. God does not hear faith alone, that man only says he has without the works of salvation.

Those who claim faith only, without doing the first work of confession unto Christ Jesus, are not saved nor justified by God.

Without the works of salvation, beginning with confessing Jesus Christ, there is no salvation of God.

There is no such thing as faith alone

True saving faith calls out to God like the tax collector. It believes and is accounted as righteous like abraham, it says you have the words of eternal life. And we have come to believe you are the christ. Who died on our behalf.

when we add works to the mix. We are adding our righteousness to Gods righteousness.. Our righteousness is as filthy (literally bloody) rags As the word says.

get out from under trusting in self. And fall on the ground and trust God to save you completely.

THEN God will grow you into producing fruit. And doing the work to make you like him.. as paul said, he who began a good work WILL COMPLETE it.

lets stop trusting self and boasting. And let start boasting in Christ.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You know, I've been wrestling with this myself. It seems that every time any Christian so much as mentions the word work, or works in the same sentence or paragraph with salvation and justification, then they immediately default to self-righteous works of our own without faith nor God.

Here is the issue

when someone says one must work. Or they are not saved., then they are speaking justification by works

when you hear one say one works BECAUSE they are saved. Then they are speaking of sanctification.

The problem is group number one starts screaming that people are against work. Because people reject their works of works of faith, and try to show them they are trying to earn justification.

 

[mailmandan]

There is no such thing as faith alone

Those who teach salvation by faith AND WORKS confuse faith (that trusts in Jesus Christ "alone" for salvation - Romans 4:5-6) with an (empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains "alone" barren of works - James 2:14).

True saving faith calls out to God like the tax collector. It believes and is accounted as righteous like abraham, it says you have the words of eternal life. And we have come to believe you are the christ. Who died on our behalf.

Amen! We are not to be like the Pharisee in this parable who is confident of his own righteousness and despises others/views others with contempt, but like the tax collector who would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’ For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.

when we add works to the mix. We are adding our righteousness to Gods righteousness.. Our righteousness is as filthy (literally bloody) rags As the word says.

Titus 3:5 - not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit.

get out from under trusting in self. And fall on the ground and trust God to save you completely.

One must first humble themselves like the tax collector and trust exclusively in Jesus Christ for salvation and not in Jesus Christ + works. Christ's finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save believers. No supplements needed. (Romans 3:24-28)

THEN God will grow you into producing fruit. And doing the work to make you like him.. as paul said, he who began a good work WILL COMPLETE it.

Philippians 1:6 - being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ. Philippians 2:13 - for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.

lets stop trusting self and boasting. And let start boasting in Christ.

Galatians 6:14 - But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Those who teach salvation by faith AND WORKS confuse faith (that trusts in Jesus Christ "alone" for salvation - Romans 4:5-6) with an (empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains "alone" barren of works - James 2:14).


Amen! We are not to be like the Pharisee in this parable who is confident of his own righteousness and despises others/views others with contempt, but like the tax collector who would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’ For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.


Titus 3:5 - not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit.


One must first humble themselves like the tax collector and trust exclusively in Jesus Christ for salvation and not in Jesus Christ + works. Christ's finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save believers. No supplements needed. (Romans 3:24-28)


Philippians 1:6 - being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ. Philippians 2:13 - for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.

Galatians 6:14 - But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

1 Corinthians 2:2
For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified

 

[amigo de christo]

Let the glorious King be praised .

 

[Robert Gwin]

The word sown in our heart by hearing the word, is the work of God.

Our work do no work, until we resist the devil and do the word, which begins with confessing the Lord Jesus.

It's no work for us to hear the Word, unless we must strain to hear it, because we are too far from the speaker.

Nice that you come by it naturally sir, I have had to study a lot, but then again I am one of the few with the rare talent that what goes in one ear came out the other before it went in, actually going into warp speed once it got inside.

 

[Wrangler]

Confessing with your mouth that Jesus is Lord is an expression of faith and not a work for salvation.

<sigh> The opposition to work by many Christians is counter-productive though well meaning.

No one is vaguely claiming "works", in the Biblical sense, is needed for salvation.

There is the normal use of the word "work" (action) that IS necessary. If this were not true, universalism would be correct doctrine. Do you hold universalism to be correct doctrine?

It is a contraction to say "Salvation is a free gift requiring no work on your part at all, all you have to do is ..." The dividing line is from external to internal. From my post earlier today.

Eternal damnation is the default human condition. God has provided a get out of jail free card. All we have to do is accept it.

People have such a sinful nature that they do not even want to go through the effort to accept a gift of infinite value. If I write a check to you for $1,000,000,000, it only benefits you by actually cashing the check, depositing it into your account. In other words, by accepting the gift.

This is why those that claim salvation is due to no action on our part (no works) are hurting the cause. They are indoctrinated into foolishness. It does take action on our part, starting with humbling ourselves to recognize our need to be saved.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

<sigh> The opposition to work by many Christians is counter-productive though well meaning.

No one is vaguely claiming "works", in the Biblical sense, is needed for salvation.

Can someone explain to me how people can openly see those who teach

1. we re saved by faith plus works

2. If we do not do works we will not be saved

3. If we stop doing works we will lose salvation

4. That we are saved by water baptism, what church we go to. What tradition we are holding

and sit with a straight face and so NO ONE is vaguely claiming ”works” in the biblical sense is needed for salvation?

are we this blind to what people ar actually saying? or is it that we are one of these groups./ and have to deny what we ourselves are teaching?

 

[Wrangler]

sit with a straight face and so NO ONE is vaguely claiming ”works” in the biblical sense is needed for salvation?

I think it all comes down to discerning the different senses of work.

There is external "works" in the Biblical sense that one cannot claim to earn salvation. Then there is internal work regarding faith and belief. “For this is how God loved the world: He gave[b] his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life." It means one must work out their own salvation with fear and trembling. Believing is an action word. It is work. It's just not works in the Biblical sense.

 

[Gilligan]

Here is the issue

when someone says one must work. Or they are not saved., then they are speaking justification by works

True. That's what James says. Faith alone can't save anyone, and we are justified by works, and not by faith only.

when you hear one say one works BECAUSE they are saved. Then they are speaking of sanctification.

True too. We sanctify and cleanse ourselves in the spirit first and in the flesh also.

Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also. (Matthew 23)

Outward works of our own, are without God, His faith, nor His Spirit. Clean outside and still filthy inside.

Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.(2 Cor 7)

The problem is group number one starts screaming that people are against work.

I've never heard anyone scream on a web site. ;) My experience has been pretty much the opposite. I don't bully people that trust in faith alone, but just show the Bible that says it's dead and untrustworthy for the soul. What I observe on the other side is all manner of name-calling such as self-righteous, boasters, grace deniers, etc...with exclamation points, which I suppose is yelling in print. Whenever works are spoken of within a mile of salvation and justification, the grace and faith alone lovers bring out the pitchforks. Which I don't mind at all, since words do not harm me, especially in type only.

Because people reject their works of works of faith,

Now you reject works of faith, as well as works? Or just when any works, including works of faith, are within a mile of salvation and justification? ;)

and try to show them they are trying to earn justification.

And so you confirm my issue with people such as yourself. No matter how much we refer to the Bible to show being justified by works, is not trusting in our works to be saved, you simply default to your flow-chart screen, and say we are trying to 'earn' or work for justification on our own, as though God were indebted to us for doing good.

I would say obtain justification by works of faith in God, the same as obtaining salvation by believing God from the heart.

It really is simple. Doing God's good works and being justified by Christ for doing them from the heart, is not any doer of God's Word trusting in their own works to indebt Christ to them. We don't do our own works anymore, but only do those things that please God, because we love Him. When we do them, we are justified with God in doing so. Therefore, no an can possibly be justified with God, when doing nothing at all, especially when doing the work of the devil in works of the flesh.

When we we love Him and love doing His word, He justifies us as doing His good works, not our own. We only do so, because we believe and trust His word is true, so that when we do His word, we are doing the truth of God. Thus, all such works are justified as being of God and not of man.

I hate vain thoughts and abhor lying: but thy law do I love. (Psalms 119)

Some men trusting in another word of religion, and believe doing those works justify them with the true God, so that their trust is misplaced, and their works are vain and dead in sight of God.

But, faith alone people rank all works the same, and make no difference between them being done with God or not, so that no works have any place in their salvation and justification in. They may like anyone else do good works as a matter of course, but only those works done in love of Jesus are justified with God.

Before I being saved, I never did anything in order to please God, nor cared what His word says, much less seeking to do it. I did all things by my own faith and will alone, including sometimes good and sometimes not good. That's why faith alone is dead to God and saves nor justifies any man.

Now, the only reason I do anything is because I believe, trust, and love God and His word, and so my works are born of Him, and not of myself, and so am justified by my works in love with Him.

All James is saying, is that without works of love, there is no love in the heart. Without loving God and man, we cannot possibly have the faith of God in our hearts. Faith and love undone, is dead to God and unjustified in His sight.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

True. That's what James says. Faith alone can't save anyone, and we are justified by works, and not by faith only.

so James contradicted paul?

True too. We sanctify and cleanse ourselves in the spirit first and in the flesh also.

Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also. (Matthew 23)

Outward works of our own, are without God, His faith, nor His Spirit. Clean outside and still filthy inside.

Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.(2 Cor 7)

True too? Yur works cant wash away one sin. Let alone the inside..

I've never heard anyone scream on a web site. ;) My experience has been pretty much the opposite. I don't bully people that trust in faith alone, but just show the Bible that says it's dead and untrustworthy for the soul. What I observe on the other side is all manner of name-calling such as self-righteous, boasters, grace deniers, etc...with exclamation points, which I suppose is yelling in print. Whenever works are spoken of within a mile of salvation and justification, the grace and faith alone lovers bring out the pitchforks. Which I don't mind at all, since words do not harm me, especially in type only.

I don’t scream either/ But when someone claims we are saved by faith plus works. II must, out of the abundance of my heart call them to repent.

Now you reject works of faith, as well as works? Or just when any works, including works of faith, are within a mile of salvation and justification? ;)

I rejects works of faith? its bad enough you contradict yourself by on one hand saying you are not saying works are a means of salvation. But now. After I declaired that our works procede from faith. That everyone who has true faith will work. Lie, and say I reject works of faith also.

And so you confirm my issue with people such as yourself. No matter how much we refer to the Bible to show being justified by works, is not trusting in our works to be saved, you simply default to your flow-chart screen, and say we are trying to 'earn' or work for justification on our own, as though God were indebted to us for doing good.

I would say obtain justification by works of faith in God, the same as obtaining salvation by believing God from the heart.

It really is simple. Doing God's good works and being justified by Christ for doing them from the heart, is not any doer of God's Word trusting in their own works to indebt Christ to them. We don't do our own works anymore, but only do those things that please God, because we love Him. When we do them, we are justified with God in doing so. Therefore, no an can possibly be justified with God, when doing nothing at all, especially when doing the work of the devil in works of the flesh.

When we we love Him and love doing His word, He justifies us as doing His good works, not our own. We only do so, because we believe and trust His word is true, so that when we do His word, we are doing the truth of God. Thus, all such works are justified as being of God and not of man.

I hate vain thoughts and abhor lying: but thy law do I love. (Psalms 119)

Some men trusting in another word of religion, and believe doing those works justify them with the true God, so that their trust is misplaced, and their works are vain and dead in sight of God.

But, faith alone people rank all works the same, and make no difference between them being done with God or not, so that no works have any place in their salvation and justification in. They may like anyone else do good works as a matter of course, but only those works done in love of Jesus are justified with God.

Before I being saved, I never did anything in order to please God, nor cared what His word says, much less seeking to do it. I did all things by my own faith and will alone, including sometimes good and sometimes not good. That's why faith alone is dead to God and saves nor justifies any man.

Now, the only reason I do anything is because I believe, trust, and love God and His word, and so my works are born of Him, and not of myself, and so am justified by my works in love with Him.

All James is saying, is that without works of love, there is no love in the heart. Without loving God and man, we cannot possibly have the faith of God in our hearts. Faith and love undone, is dead to God and unjustified in His sight.

And you confirmed what I have said

You are a group who teaches we ARE saved by works of rightiousness whch we have done. And NBOT by his mercy, through the washing of regeneration….

see how you have to twist the words of God to make your beliefe come true?

James spoke of people who CLAIMED to have faith. He never said they had faith. He said quite the opposite. Their faith (they claimed) was dead. Non existent, Lifeless.. For if it was a living faith. They would be doers of the word not just hearers.

If I was you I would get out of James. James was not talking to you or about you.

I would go to paul Look up romans, and galations and other passages, where he has directly addressed you and those like you who preach the gospel and the cross is great. But there is more than that.

 

[Gilligan]

There is no such thing as faith alone

James is not lying when he says faith alone is dead. There is faith alone, and it's dead, just as there is dead body alone without spirit.

True saving faith calls out to God like the tax collector.

And so, you agree with Jesus, that words of faith also justify us with God, as well as save us by confession of the Lord Jesus.

I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

It believes and is accounted as righteous like abraham, it says you have the words of eternal life.

We have the word of the gospel sown in our hearts by hearing. Not all hearers hold to the word to do it.

And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

No one has the life of Christ by hearing the word of life only, and having it sown in our hearts alone.

And we have come to believe you are the christ. Who died on our behalf.

True. There is difference between having the word sown in our hearts by hearing alone, and receiving that word with faith to believe Jesus is Christ.

And so, once we do believe, we now have faith alone.

And once we obey the faith and gospel, and confess the Lord Jesus with our mouth, then faith is no more alone by alive unto salvation.

We have the word alone by hearing only, and we have faith alone by believing the truth, but we do not receive Jesus Christ, until we do the word and confess Him.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.


That is when we begin to become sons of God. Not before. We are not born of God nor saved by God, through our own faith alone.

when we add works to the mix. We are adding our righteousness to Gods righteousness..

And so the lie against James continues with Peter:

And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Our righteousness is as filthy (literally bloody) rags As the word says.

And so, once again we see the lie that all works of righteousness done by man are self-righteous, whether good or evil.

Faith alone says we can do good, so long as that good is not done with justification by God.

All good works must be done apart from being saved and justified with Christ.

Salvation and justification by faith alone, is just as empty and dead as faith alone.

THEN God will grow you into producing fruit.

There's no growth nor fruit without works. Growth and fruit are by works added to faith.

And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Works added to the seed of faith are the roots, branches, and fruit of faith.

There is no fruit, where there is no root. Faith alone is a useless and dead as seed alone.

And doing the work to make you like him..

True. Now you finally have it. Until we are doing the work of faith, we are nothing like Him.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

James is not lying when he says faith alone is dead. There is faith alone, and it's dead, just as there is dead body alone without spirit.

James said a claimed faith is dead
Paul said we are saved by faith alone. Apart from works. That works cancels grace it is one or the other it can not be both

And so, you agree with Jesus, that words of faith also justify us with God, as well as save us by confession of the Lord Jesus.

I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

What about the deatH mute. How are they saved?

The woman who was bleeding. Who just touched his robe. And di nto say a word? What did jesus say about her faith?

We have the word of the gospel sown in our hearts by hearing. Not all hearers hold to the word to do it.

And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

No one has the life of Christ by hearing the word of life only, and having it sown in our hearts alone.

Jesus said ths is the different.

he who believes is not condemned, he who does not believe is condemned already

What did peter say? We have come to KNOW (believe).

True. There is difference between having the word sown in our hearts by hearing alone, and receiving that word with faith to believe Jesus is Christ.

And so, once we do believe, we now have faith alone.

No. Even demons believe. It takes more than just mere believe or mental agreement. Faith is a trust. Faith is an assurance. Faith says i believe all you say about me, I believe all you say about yourself and I TRUST you and in this TRUST receive your gift of salvation.

Once we recieve the gift. We are born again, Recieve the spirit in our hearts. And are made joint heirs. New creature in christ. It is out of these facts. That we learn to trust God in other areas. And start to produce fruit based on this sanctifying work of God.

And once we obey the faith and gospel, and confess the Lord Jesus with our mouth, then faith is no more alone by alive unto salvation.

again what is the deaf mute? I prayed in silent. I did not pray out loud.. But when I was done. The deacon looked at me and said welcome to the family

We have the word alone by hearing only, and we have faith alone by believing the truth, but we do not receive Jesus Christ, until we do the word and confess Him.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.


That is when we begin to become sons of God. Not before. We are not born of God nor saved by God, through our own faith alone.

Your not born of God or saved by God through faith plus works.

John said but as many as have recieved him to THEM he gave the right to become sons of God

Jesus said he was not sent to judge but to save, and whoever believed (true living faith) would never perish but will live forever, this is how we are born again/ by receiving his gift in faith.

And so the lie against James continues with Peter:

And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Again, james did not contradict paul

Peter told those of us who have been saved, born again to add these things. amen.

But if your doing them to keep yourself saved.. You’re doing self righteousness. Not Gods righteousness.

And so, once again we see the lie that all works of righteousness done by man are self-righteous, whether good or evil.

Faith alone says we can do good, so long as that good is not done with justification by God.

All good works must be done apart from being saved and justified with Christ.

Salvation and justification by faith alone, is just as empty and dead as faith alone.

For by grace we have been saved THROUGH faith, and that not of yourselves

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but by hid mercy he saved us

If abraham ewas found by works, he has something to boast. But not before God. For what does the word say. Abraham believed God and it (his faith) was counted as righteousness.

The bible does not contradict itself

if it is by grace, it is no longer of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

I pray you know these words of God and I did nto have to show you where they are.

There's no growth nor fruit without works. Growth and fruit are by works added to faith.

And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Works added to the seed of faith are the roots, branches, and fruit of faith.

There is no fruit, where there is no root. Faith alone is a useless and dead as seed alone.

True. Now you finally have it. Until we are doing the work of faith, we are nothing like Him.

Fruit is done by those who are saved. Not those who are trying to be saved.

A non believer can do the works. He just can not produce the fruit. He must be saved first.

you can’t have the cart before the horse/

 

[Gilligan]

so James contradicted paul?

True too? Yur works cant wash away one sin. Let alone the inside..

I don’t scream either/ But when someone claims we are saved by faith plus works. II must, out of the abundance of my heart call them to repent.

I rejects works of faith? its bad enough you contradict yourself by on one hand saying you are not saying works are a means of salvation. But now. After I declaired that our works procede from faith. That everyone who has true faith will work. Lie, and say I reject works of faith also.



And you confirmed what I have said

You are a group who teaches we ARE saved by works of rightiousness whch we have done. And NBOT by his mercy, through the washing of regeneration….

see how you have to twist the words of God to make your beliefe come true?

James spoke of people who CLAIMED to have faith. He never said they had faith. He said quite the opposite. Their faith (they claimed) was dead. Non existent, Lifeless.. For if it was a living faith. They would be doers of the word not just hearers.

If I was you I would get out of James. James was not talking to you or about you.

I would go to paul Look up romans, and galations and other passages, where he has directly addressed you and those like you who preach the gospel and the cross is great. But there is more than that.

You've had your say, and I've had mine. So, lets reach a conclusion.

Must we confess with out mouth the Lord Jesus to be saved?

Is words of confession a work of faith?

If not, what are they?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You've had your say, and I've had mine. So, lets reach a conclusion.

Must we confess with out mouth the Lord Jesus to be saved?

Is words of confession a work of faith?

If not, what are they?

Can a deaf mute person confess with his mouth?

Who do I confess to? To God. Or to man? If I am confessing to man, Can man save me?

are words of confession a work? No. I can;t boast of saving myself because I admitted I was hopeless. Bankrupt, unworthy and justly condemned and cried out to God for his mercy..

Not of works lest anyone can boast…

if abraham was saved by works, he has something to boast about.

there is your defenition of work. Something you did to save yourself. So you can boast

I did nto save myself by trusting in God or calling out to him, He saved me..

 

[Gilligan]

Paul said we are saved by faith alone. Apart from works.

There is no such thing as faith alone

You don't even know what you are saying from one moment to the next.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You don't even know what you are saying from one moment to the next.

is this all you have?

One is saved at a moment in time, by faith..

after that salvation, as paul said. We produce works.

its basic math.. I guess that is over your head?