Sanctification is not a Process

[marks]

God did not design us as believers to be his Son EXACTLY, in perfection and sinless, after pleading, openly praying and crying to God to give me all the rest of your grace you are hiding from me, or holding back as Epi would make me or anyone believe. It does not work that way and its a gross distortion of salvation, being saved, and the walk of life as a believer up until glorification.

Come to me, all who are burdened, and heavy laden, and I will give you rest for your souls. Your souls. Because it's the human psyche that struggles and is burdened. We come to Jesus to be made alive in the Spirit so that we can walk in the Spirit, and the psyche can rest.

This is why I love this forum, to be looking at things like this!

Much love!

 

[amigo de christo]

it does not matter what people think

when someone bears false witness by saying that others believe something that they do not believe. whether they THINK it is true or not

its a sin.

If it is harsh to call out a person who is sinning against them.. then thats too bad

Indeed all error should be exposed .

 

[marks]

And also, you cannot take one verse about the peaceable fruit of righteousness and then do away with the verse that talks of becoming partakers of His holiness. The one deals with righteousness and the other with holiness.

Hebrews 12:10-11 KJV
10) For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
11) Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

What to you seems "done away with"? He is chastening us that we might be partakers of His holiness. This states the purpose of the chastening. It yeilds the peaceable fruits of righteousness, that's the fruit of chastening. We become partakers of His holiness, and partaking of His holiness, righteousness is produced.

Holiness is a state of being, that we serve Him alone. Saying that God is Holy is saying that He remains true to Himself. There is no shadow of turning. As we join Him in this, we do the works He ordained for us to do, doing what is right.

We are set apart for Him, therefore we do what is right.

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

You know? Or you think you know? Isn't this just your opinion? We've never even really discussed this, as I recall. And I've seeing a number of times when you haven't understood things I've written. I don't say that against you, my wife doesn't always understand me. She says I talk like Yoda sometimes. I think I can get convoluted!

But suddenly we're talking about me instead of the topic, and I'm not as interested in discussing me.

I think we could be able to discuss the particular verses without reverting to saying that one or the other has some particular blindness.

Much love!

You said, “I think it sounds like you…”
I replied with the same sort of, I think it sounds like you…

Then you wonder why we‘re talking about you…?
NOW you’re not interested in discussing you? You discussed me first. But you only want to talk to me about me and then have me zip it, thank you very much?

Ive lived a couple of days you know.

And I lived a LOT of those days in a family STEEPED in passive aggressive. You’re like a 5 pound chihuahua compared to THEIR adeptness with it. I could give YOU lessons on how to do it.
And I’ve left all that useless way of life behind but that doesn’t mean I IGNORE it when you come at me with it. Sheesh Louise!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I went to the grocery store this morning that I might cook a nice dinner. Already cooked and eaten an hour ago.

Do you think that’s a good answer…? Are you saying…what, that it takes one day to learn righteousness and have the mind renewed? Man, get out! , no one who’s struggled with it is going to agree with that.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Chastening doesn't take place in an instant, it is an ongoing process that we might be partakers of His holiness.

But you just were saying you bought groceries and cooked and ate them the same day to argue that….oh never mind, you don’t even know what you’re arguing for any more.
But as to what you just said above here, I agree. It’s what Ive been saying. The process IS learning righteousness, having the mind renewed, chastening. The process, as Epi says, is NOT holiness.

 

[APAK]

Where do you see this in my words?


Not in the slightest!

Well, OK. If it's a "philosophy", yes, all manner of ill can follow. But when it's a reality, that's an entirely different thing.

What happens when you come to see that you've really actually been freed from sin, just like the Bible says, and when you find that trusting God in His promises actually does overwhelm and completely subdue the motions of sin in the flesh?

The whole idea is that you stop your work, that you recognize that your struggle is your own efforts, and that in God's grace you can walk in the Spirit?

Yes, we falter, we lapse, and there is a great tendency to place the foundation of our reconciliation to God in our own behavior, but we are not reconciled to God based on our obedience, rather, based on Jesus' obedience.

Being reconciled to God in Christ means that my reconciliation isn't determined by my behavior. And this is the truth that sets us free.

"for the motions of sin in our members, which are by the Law . . ."

God's grace in our reconciliation allows us to live apart from the Law, and to freely be with God. And being with God, knowing He is here with me, He loves me, and He is doing what is right and good for me, I then enjoy His communion, and sin is not a part of that.

We struggle and fight to control our flesh, when if we simply fill our minds and hearts with God, and all that is in Him, all of that fleshy stuff, it's gone.

But if you think you've done something that takes you away from Him, that's not the faith in which we stand. Or we just get caught up in the flow of something, and fail to realize that envy has crept in, or worry has crept in, or whatever it is, fleshiness creeps in, and we need to spot it, and repudiate it, and realize that we can by faith put that off, and put on the new man, with his new mind, the mind of Christ.

But this is absolutely not a self-work. The thing is, you cannot walk in the Spirit by your own effort. It's opposite that.

Much love!

Based on what I read here, I guess we see things generally the same in terms of our spiritual life/active daily walk....yes we tend to think like Christ over time, very true marks..

..this is a great sign and I believe the desire of the Spirit of God to conform to the image (mind and spirit) of Christ.

And then there are many well-intentioned believers who create sin when there is truly no sin, and create needless guilt that places a real drag on their spiritual walk at less that 100%.

And of course self-works are truly taboo and despiritualizing in the our walk in the Spirit.

And we eventually know when self-works are even innocently inserted into our walk as we attempt to please and 'outpace' the Spirit.

Self-works even of a temporary nature will fail us as a believer eventually. The production of spiritual fruit will drop as our character strangely leans more over to the flesh and the world. This is when we need to stop, bail and pray. I believe that the Spirit will convict us of even this/these selfish act(s) before it becomes a real concern for our growth.

These are two major areas and examples of not 'fully' walking in the spirit as we live in the flesh eventhough we have already been justified in Christ and already glorified by the Spirit of God with the spirit of Christ.

 

[Lizbeth]

Do you think that’s a good answer…? Are you saying…what, that it takes one day to learn righteousness and have the mind renewed? Man, get out! , no one who’s struggled with it is going to agree with that.

I guess you're not understanding the answer.

 

[Lizbeth]

But you just were saying you bought groceries and cooked and ate them the same day to argue that….oh never mind, you don’t even know what you’re arguing for any more.
But as to what you just said above here, I agree. It’s what Ive been saying. The process IS learning righteousness, having the mind renewed, chastening. The process, as Epi says, is NOT holiness.

Ditto.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I guess you're not understanding the answer.

I understood. I was showing, by the words of scripture, that might be doesn’t mean currently is a partaker of His holiness.

Then you used groceries and cooking dinner to show holiness takes a day? Or something...

 

[stunnedbygrace]

The title of the thread is “Sanctification is not a process.”

The “process” is training in righteousness. Holiness is not a process. As Epi has said.

Training in righteousness is so that we might become partakers of His holiness.

 

[marks]

Based on what I read here, I guess we see things generally the same in terms of our spiritual life/active daily walk....

And reading your post, I pretty much agree! I like to emphasize though that we may think we're waiting for the power we already have.

Much love!

 

[marks]

You said, “I think it sounds like you…”
I replied with the same sort of, I think it sounds like you…

I said, it sounds like you, and invited you to clarify . . . and you replied, because you can't see . . . Not, It sounds like, but that you know I'm blind.

It's time for me to go anyway, so have a good night!

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I said “same sort of.” I know better than to not choose my words carefully with you. Remember who I grew up with.

 

[Lizbeth]

The title of the thread is “Sanctification is not a process.”

The “process” is training in righteousness. Holiness is not a process. As Epi has said.

Training in righteousness is so that we might become partakers of His holiness.

Well here is what the LORD says:

Exo 23:29-30

I will not drive them out from before thee in one year; lest the land become desolate, and the beast of the field multiply against thee.
By little and little I will drive them out from before thee, until thou be increased, and inherit the land.

God's wisdom, written for our admonition. The prodigal son comes to mind with this. Asking for his inheritance before the right time, and before he was ready. Sometimes we may ask the Lord for things out of less than pure motives and before we are ready to handle His gift with maturity. Beasts of the field multiplying I believe is alluding to the baser aspects of our fallen nature, like pride, ambition, greed, rebelliousness, etc. Some of those battles with the enemy and struggles in our life are the very things we need to keep those beasts at bay, to teach us humility, reliance on God, obedience to Him, etc, until we are ready.

 

[APAK]

And reading your post, I pretty much agree! I like to emphasize though that we may think we're waiting for the power we already have.

Much love!

VG point! We have power and this power does not mean a show of ostentatious might to show the world we are believers in the Spirit. The power to cause peace and resolve disputes within a neighborhood, the power to love as God loves us. The power to cause a healing in faith. The power to say no to sin, and I have really noticed this type of power over the last decade or two....this power from God really works...

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Well here is what the LORD says:

Exo 23:29-30

I will not drive them out from before thee in one year; lest the land become desolate, and the beast of the field multiply against thee.
By little and little I will drive them out from before thee, until thou be increased, and inherit the land.

God's wisdom, written for our admonition. The prodigal son comes to mind with this. Asking for his inheritance before the right time, and before he was ready. Sometimes we may ask the Lord for things out of less than pure motives and before we are ready to handle His gift with maturity. Beasts of the field multiplying I believe is alluding to the baser aspects of our fallen nature, like pride, ambition, greed, rebelliousness, etc. Some of those battles with the enemy and struggles in our life are the very things we need to keep those beasts at bay, to teach us humility, reliance on God, obedience to Him, etc, until we are ready.

If you’ve said this, then I honestly don’t know what all the fussing against what Epi has said was even about.
until you are increased and inherit the land.
until you grow in all the things you need to, to have the maturity you need to enter into the land He’s prepared for you - the heavenly Zion, the place of rest, walking in the Spirit in Gods holiness.

So why all the argument?

 

[Episkopos]

If you’ve said this, then I honestly don’t know what all the fussing against what Epi has said was even about.
until you are increased and inherit the land.
until you grow in all the things you need to, to have the maturity you need to enter into the land He’s prepared for you - the heavenly Zion, the place of rest, walking in the Spirit in Gods holiness.

So why all the argument?

To go to God one has to believe that's even possible. It takes faith. So you can't expect much agreement on that. What you can expect is that most people will try to be perfected by saying..."it's good, I got this, I'll take it from here."

Having begun in the Spirit (if that is so) are we now made perfect by human means? Our own understanding?

 

[Michiah-Imla]

"it's good, I got this, I'll take it from here."

“Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.” (Matthew 26:41)

 

[Lizbeth]

If you’ve said this, then I honestly don’t know what all the fussing against what Epi has said was even about.
until you are increased and inherit the land.
until you grow in all the things you need to, to have the maturity you need to enter into the land He’s prepared for you - the heavenly Zion, the place of rest, walking in the Spirit in Gods holiness.

So why all the argument?

I don't know what Episkopos makes of this passage, but I see process here. Hopefully not to be ignored or despised.

Not sure what to make of the fact that this is after the Israelites enter the land of promise, or how to think of it.....it is not talking about the wilderness.