Sanctification is not a Process

[stunnedbygrace]

I have just noted the verse in the parable about not forgiving and being “thrown into prison until you pay the last cent” is elsewhere repeated in scripture. I hadn’t really noted that…
Its repeated in when going to court with a brother and trying to reconcile on the way.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Those Jewish people became hardheaded and stiff necked, in Jerusalem. See how they treated Jesus, and their respect for God had be misconstrued for idol worship, and vain worship of man’s traditions.

Do you see any sort of repeat of that today?
Could the eternal torture doctrine men learned from their fathers be an idol of their fathers and men’s traditions? They certainly protect it and spend long hours fighting for it and defending it.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

It’s interesting to me this morning that it says Jesus “told a parable to some who thought they were righteous.”

It was the man who KNEW he wasn’t righteous who walked away justified.

I have seen a repeat of “we be the seed of Abraham!” with “we be the seed of the Holy Spirit!”

I struggle with how it’s possible to be given the down payment, (at which point you WILL live forever), and yet be rejected. I truly think sometimes I may be shutting my eyes but at other times I think the outer darkness during the thousand years has some hope still left.

The other thing I think is that being given a down payment of the Spirit along with the promise of Him being faithful even if we are not along with the promise to never leave or abandon us, means…what for the outer darkness? That you would still have that down payment there in the outer darkness?

 

[MatthewG]

Do you see any sort of repeat of that today?

It depends on who you come across. Some people can be very harsh and mean, they can deride a person mentally and break their spirit. That was what Paul was doing when he went around persecuting Christian’s. Only to come to realize once the Lord revealed himself to him that Paul had made mistake and went on pressing forward teaching and preaching the gospel of the Messiah.

What I see today, is people in their own individual garden like Adam and Eve. Choosing between the tree of life and the tree of knowledge and good and evil. Choosing to have relationship with God or not.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

It depends on who you come across. Some people can be very harsh and mean, they can deride a person mentally and break their spirit. That was what Paul was doing when he went around persecuting Christian’s. Only to come to realize once the Lord revealed himself to him that Paul had made mistake and went on pressing forward teaching and preaching the gospel of the Messiah.

What I see today, is people in their own individual garden like Adam and Eve. Choosing between the tree of life and the tree of knowledge and good and evil. Choosing to have relationship with God or not.

I added to my post and said more about what I meant. Sorry.

 

[MatthewG]

I added to my post and said more about what I meant. Sorry.

That is ok, just consider my first post.

 

[MatthewG]

Here’s the rest of my thought added.

I have no comments. Just only the one shared.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Do you see any sort of repeat of that today?
Could the eternal torture doctrine men learned from their fathers be an idol of their fathers and men’s traditions? They certainly protect it and spend long hours fighting for it and defending it.

Here’s the post with my thought added.

 

[MatthewG]

Here’s the post with my thought added.

Okay.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Lol. Okay.
I see us repeating it. Some might not.

 

[MatthewG]

No comment on my shared answer with you? That is alright. Just desired to share some information with others concerning.

It depends on who you come across. Some people can be very harsh and mean, they can deride a person mentally and break their spirit. That was what Paul was doing when he went around persecuting Christian’s. Only to come to realize once the Lord revealed himself to him that Paul had made mistake and went on pressing forward teaching and preaching the gospel of the Messiah.

What I see today, is people in their own individual garden like Adam and Eve. Choosing between the tree of life and the tree of knowledge and good and evil. Choosing to have relationship with God or not.

I was answering your question here. Your other thoughts and questions while they are probably able to be answered, there is no desire in my heart to direct an answer to your questions, other than this one here.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Yeah, we are still finding no connection. We can try again in another few months.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Malachi 3:3 he will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver, and he will purify the sons of Levi and refine them like gold and silver, until they present right offerings to the LORD.

And possibly this one:

Ezra 7:26​

​

New American Standard Bible​

​

​

26 And whoever does not comply with the Law of your God and the law of the king, judgment is to be executed upon him strictly, whether for death or for banishment, or for confiscation of property or for imprisonment.”

 

[stunnedbygrace]

And why will the holy smash those in the nations like clay pots? It sounds like correction to me…
I don’t know, trying to gather it all still.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Proverbs 20 or psalm 142, can’t remember which, speaks of strokes cleansing the inward parts.
I don’t know, I’m seeing a LOT of OT verses that could be supporting, in the spirit of the words. Let me just stop until I can put it together more.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

And possibly this one:

Ezra 7:26​

​

New American Standard Bible​

​

​

26 And whoever does not comply with the Law of your God and the law of the king, judgment is to be executed upon him strictly, whether for death or for banishment, or for confiscation of property or for imprisonment.”

But this one, so far, seems To be most likely so far.

 

[APAK]

I believe you didn’t grasp why Epi compared them. It’s because in order to get men to accept that they cannot enter the kingdom of God NOW and walk IN the Spirit, you have to offer it to them LATER.

I got the point alright SBG. I think you are missing his point completely. You know he has mentioned this 'empty' sling shot before. Epi is lumping everyone who does not agree with him as usual all in the same boat, where ever he can he will, do this to discredit. In this case for his doctrine of rebirth, sanctification and salvation. It is a slick trick and I do not fall for it at all. That is why he needs to be singled out for it. .

And further, I accepted the scriptural version of the Kingdom of God already when I was accepted Christ and was reborn and I walk in this spiritual life today IN the Kingdom of God! No, what Epi is doing as part of his modus operandi is to deflect and shallowly elevate himself above other people for reasons he only knows. If he has the real truth about sanctification and salvation he should never have to resort to these tactics at all.

I do not know of any extra-scriptural process of accepting a different version of the Kingdom Epi has created here. I only know of the one when you are reborn. Epi has created his own process and rewritten the definitions of key words and symbols for salvation and of being reborn and being in HIS KoG. He believes today as you do I gather that VERY FEW people are actually reborn as believers because they do not prescribe to Epi's doctrine of salvation. So can you really see why Epi cannot win folks over because many as I, really think that Epi is winging it as he continues to create and recreate his theory(ies) over the years. And he tests it out on folks along the way like me and others...I've read various earlier version of his work over the years, and it will continue to evolve until he believes he has perfected his own unique version of salvation and rebirth.

Does he truly really know what 'level' of sanctification he gets if he cries out and sees the 'face of God' (an idiom by the way) and gets the rest of his so-called grace TODAY that he does not understand and why he actually needs it? Does he consider himself a super saint once he has acquired HIS state of 100% holiness in his saintly walk on a higher plateau, as compared to everyone else who are just still struggling in the flesh at times by just being more Christlike on a lowly plane; and not reborn yet!

His belief and theory wreaks of attaining nirvana (HIS so called 'higher walk' - sky walker anyone) as the Asian Indian religions prescribes and follow. I really think he is fusing Christianity with these Asian religions myself. A dangerous mix indeed that I would stay away from.

All Indian religions assert that (nirvana or perfect state with 'god') is a state of perfect quietude, freedom, highest happiness as well as the liberation from attachment (of the world and flesh) and worldly suffering and the ending of samsara (the indefinitely repeated cycles of birth, misery, and death caused by karma), the round of existence. Paraphrased from Wikipedia..

................done......

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Epi is lumping everyone who does not agree with him as usual all in the same boat, where ever he can he will, do this to discredit

Actually…no. I’ve watched and listened to him 16 years. He does not put everyone in the same boat. He makes distinction between the meek/humble/righteous who will inherit the earth and those who understand their poverty and look to Gods power and not their own, who the kingdom of God belongs to. He also sees iniquity.
He sees all four - wicked/doing harm, filthy, righteous, holy. That is the exact opposite of putting everyone in the same boat.

Admittedly, I’ve not read past your first paragraph because if it wasn’t true I hold out no hope that any of the rest is.

 

[Episkopos]

I got the point alright SBG. I think you are missing his point completely. You know he has mentioned this 'empty' sling shot before. Epi is lumping everyone who does not agree with him as usual all in the same boat, where ever he can he will, do this to discredit. In this case for his doctrine of rebirth, sanctification and salvation. It is a slick trick and I do not fall for it at all. That is why he needs to be singled out for it. .

And further, I accepted the scriptural version of the Kingdom of God already when I was accepted Christ and was reborn and I walk in this spiritual life today IN the Kingdom of God! No, what Epi is doing as part of his modus operandi is to deflect and shallowly elevate himself above other people for reasons he only knows. If he has the real truth about sanctification and salvation he should never have to resort to these tactics at all.

I do not know of any extra-scriptural process of accepting a different version of the Kingdom Epi has created here. I only know of the one when you are reborn. Epi has created his own process and rewritten the definitions of key words and symbols for salvation and of being reborn and being in HIS KoG. He believes today as you do I gather that VERY FEW people are actually reborn as believers because they do not prescribe to Epi's doctrine of salvation. So can you really see why Epi cannot win folks over because many as I, really think that Epi is winging it as he continues to create and recreate his theory(ies) over the years. And he tests it out on folks along the way like me and others...I've read various earlier version of his work over the years, and it will continue to evolve until he believes he has perfected his own unique version of salvation and rebirth.

Does he truly really know what 'level' of sanctification he gets if he cries out and sees the 'face of God' (an idiom by the way) and gets the rest of his so-called grace TODAY that he does not understand and why he actually needs it? Does he consider himself a super saint once he has acquired HIS state of 100% holiness in his saintly walk on a higher plateau, as compared to everyone else who are just still struggling in the flesh at times by just being more Christlike on a lowly plane; and not reborn yet!

His belief and theory wreaks of attaining nirvana (HIS so called 'higher walk' - sky walker anyone) as the Asian Indian religions prescribes and follow. I really think he is fusing Christianity with these Asian religions myself. A dangerous mix indeed that I would stay away from.

All Indian religions assert that (nirvana or perfect state with 'god') is a state of perfect quietude, freedom, highest happiness as well as the liberation from attachment (of the world and flesh) and worldly suffering and the ending of samsara (the indefinitely repeated cycles of birth, misery, and death caused by karma), the round of existence. Paraphrased from Wikipedia..

................done......

This is quite the stretch...and very dramatic...but completely from your own mind.

Before a movie comes out there is a trailer. A sample of what the movie looks like, feels like...etc. It does what a sample does. Now, if it gave away too many plot lines, what would be the point in seeing the main event? There are giveaways...called spoilers... that let people in on the plot lines. But usually not enough to stop people from wanting to see the movie for themselves. People will get offended that I give away spoilers...but only insofar as to create an interest in going to God for the whole measure of grace He has for those who seek Him for it..

Being born again by the Spirit is like a trailer of sorts that is supposed to attract us to get the full picture as we go to where the story line of eternal consciousness can be experienced...or...kingdom life. Many are thus called...but few put themselves into the place by faith whereby they may be chosen to proceed into the big picture. The fact that I have been given access into that big picture could only be seen as bad if one thinks that one's own understanding could not possibly be surpassed. As if, the movie trailer IS the movie itself (as the devil wants us to believe). So again, it is the ego of the one limiting God that limits all others to what it has itself attained. Jesus spoke that way to the Pharisees...who did not enter the kingdom...and also wanted to stop others from entering. The devil uses the ego to do his work. And religious egos are his specialty.

So what's wrong with wanting to see the featured big picture? What's wrong with seeking God for a greater revelation? All that is needed is faith and the love that drives us to seek God's face. We are to go to the throne of grace...to receive grace as we need it.

Now, you may not like the fact that very few will enter into that level of life and walk...and pin that on me as if I'm the one trying to limit others...but I am just citing what God has said to us. I am trying to get others to seek the deeper walk...that's my motivation. And I hold a lot back from what I know. I only share what I think is useful and helpful to get people to see that they need to take more steps.....and not rest on an initial experience (or be happy with a movie trailer rather than going to get the full picture). You might think that a spiritual Christianity looks Eastern ...but that is your own view on what's in the bible...not my own. I am simply not imposing my Western views onto the narrative, as you seem to be doing.

Let the bible speak for itself. And let God reveal His ways through the narrative...wherever that might lead to. Even if it goes against the best laid plans we have imagined for ourselves.

 

[Wrangler]

I’ve watched and listened to him 16 years.

He sees all four

An epi acolyte.E

Admittedly, I’ve not read past your first paragraph because if it wasn’t true I hold out no hope that any of the rest is.

And an Epi apologist.