23 major reasons to reject the Premil doctrine!

[Christian Gedge]

CG: please do a calculation of 1260 days after the Crucifixion, [or more likely; the day Jesus was acclaimed as King] What date it was and exactly what happened that day to complete the 70th 'week;, as you contend.

You referring Palm Sunday? 10th Nisan (2nd April AD 30) plus 1260 days = 1st Tishri (14 September AD 33) Why do you ask?

 

[Keraz]

You referring Palm Sunday? 10th Nisan (2nd April AD 30) plus 1260 days = 1st Tishri (14 September AD 33) Why do you ask?

What special thing happened on that day?
There must be something to mark the end of Daniels Prophecy and saying it was just the Gospel going out to the Gentiles, doesn't cut it.

The Glorious Return of Jesus will be that special event.

 

[Christian Gedge]

There must be something to mark the end of Daniels Prophecy ... The Glorious Return of Jesus will be that special event.

Daniel outlines six goals in his chapter 9 vision and not one of them mentions Jesus' return.

What special thing happened on that day? ... saying it was just the Gospel going out to the Gentiles, doesn't cut it.

The last goal of Daniels Prophecy was the special thing that happened at the end of the seventieth week! The 'Anointing of the most Holy' took place in the last half of the week, beginning with the outpouring of the Spirit in Jerusalem (Acts 2) and completing with the outpouring of the Spirit upon the Gentiles. (Acts 10)

 

[Keraz]

Daniel outlines six goals in his chapter 9 vision and not one of them mentions Jesus' return.

All six items in Daniel 9:24, await their final fulfilment. You deny reality to think otherwise.
They WILL be fulfilled when Jesus Returns.

The last goal of Daniels Prophecy was the special thing that happened at the end of the seventieth week! The 'Anointing of the most Holy' took place in the last half of the week, beginning with the outpouring of the Spirit in Jerusalem (Acts 2) and completing with the outpouring of the Spirit upon the Gentiles. (Acts 10)

This idea simply does not prove your belief. In Revelation, it plainly shows that the 1260 days will be completed when Jesus Returns and destroys Satans armies and chains him up, Revelation 16:16 & 19:11-21

 

[covenantee]

All six items in Daniel 9:24, await their final fulfilment. You deny reality to think otherwise.
They WILL be fulfilled when Jesus Returns.

What to believe?

1. Two centuries of modernist dispensational delusion and denial.
2. Seventeen centuries of historical united orthodox Christian testimony.

No hint needed.

All fulfilled, 2,000 years ago in and through the ministry and sacrifice of Christ, completely and perfectly.

 

[Keraz]

No hint needed.

Only a truckload of denial and a total blindness to scriptural truths and the present reality.

 

[Truth7t7]

Daniel outlines six goals in his chapter 9 vision and not one of them mentions Jesus' return.

I Disagree, the words "Even Until The Consummation" represents (the second coming, day of the Lord) as seen below

Many that follow reformed preterist eschatology ignore the words "Even Until The Consummation" this is a future event unfulfilled, it's that simple

Daniel's AOD is future, and the bad guy causing the Abomination and Desolation will be present on earth to the "Consummation" Ultimate End

"Future" Events Unfulfilled

This "Future" figure will be present on earth making (Abomination & Desolation) to the (Consummation) or (The Ultimate End) "Future" Event(s) Unfulfilled

(The Future Consummation)

2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Merriam-Webster
Definition of consummation

1: the act of consummating the consummation of a contract by mutual signature specifically : the consummating of a marriage
2: the ultimate end

Daniel's AOD (Even Until The Consummation) "Future"!

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[WPM]

I Disagree, the words "Even Until The Consummation" represents (the second coming, day of the Lord) as seen below

Many that follow reformed preterist eschatology ignore the words "Even Until The Consummation" this is a future event unfulfilled, it's that simple

Daniel's AOD is future, and the bad guy causing the Abomination and Desolation will be present on earth to the "Consummation" Ultimate End

"Future" Events Unfulfilled

This "Future" figure will be present on earth making (Abomination & Desolation) to the (Consummation) or (The Ultimate End) "Future" Event(s) Unfulfilled

(The Future Consummation)

2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Merriam-Webster
Definition of consummation

1: the act of consummating the consummation of a contract by mutual signature specifically : the consummating of a marriage
2: the ultimate end

Daniel's AOD (Even Until The Consummation) "Future"!

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Read what he wrote before trying to disagree. This is a bad habit of yours. The 6 things that related to the earthly ministry of Christ are fulfilled. While the rebuilding of the city was to occur within the 70 weeks (the first 7 weeks specifically) the date of the final destruction of the temple – which resulted from the once all-sufficient sacrifice for sin (in the midst of the 70th week) as predicted in Daniel 9:24 – is NOT specified. It says, “for (or because of) the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate (the temple and its now obsolete ordinances).”

The abominations are the specific cause of the destruction of the temple and that it is when they have reached their pinnacle, and because they have reached their zenith or apex, which was 40 years after Calvary, that the destruction arrived.

“The overspreading of abominations” was the rebellious continuing of the now abolished temple sacrifices by the Jews. And despite God allowing them time to repent in the intervening 40-year period (AD 30-AD 70), they stubbornly rebelled. The blasphemous continuing of the old order – the abolished (imperfect) sacrifices – occasioned the destruction of the temple – 40 being a perfect probationary period. When the practicing of the temple sacrifices had reached their allotted time-span, God destroyed them and the temple.

Hebrew scholar E.B. Pussey in his classic work ‘Daniel the Prophet’ interprets this passage directly from the original, “upon the pinnacle of abominations a desolator, and that, until decreed desolation be outpoured upon the desolated.”

He therefore expressly reveals that the abominations are the specific cause of the destruction of the temple and that it is when they have reached their pinnacle, and because they have reached their zenith or apex, which was 40 years after Calvary, that the destruction arrived.

Pussey rightly says, in relation to the actual identity of the abominations, “Only desecration from within could make it ‘a pinnacle of abominations’.” Therefore, we must conclude that the abominations related to false practices carried out by the Jews; and that these false practices where administered within the temple thus attracting the fury and wrath of God upon the temple. It can therefore point us to no other matter than the blasphemous continuation of the abolished sacrifices, in clear violation to God’s merciful once all-sufficient sacrifice.

The “desolation” is not within the 70 weeks, please read it. The desolation is the consequence of what happened in the midst of the week – Calvary. Daniel 9:27 says, “And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.”

The duration of this desolation lasts until the Lord’s glorious Second Advent, the consummation. This reading declares, “he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation.”

The desolation of the temple lasts till the coming of Christ

 

[covenantee]

Only a truckload of denial and a total blindness to scriptural truths and the present reality.

There is no greater reality than the accomplishments of Christ at Calvary.

It is reality which is impossible to deny.

 

[Truth7t7]

“The overspreading of abominations” was the rebellious continuing of the now abolished temple sacrifices by the Jews. And despite God allowing them time to repent in the intervening 40-year period (AD 30-AD 70), they stubbornly rebelled.

The duration of this desolation lasts until the Lord’s glorious Second Advent, the consummation. This reading declares, “he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation.”

The desolation of the temple lasts till the coming of Christ

"False" the "He" below is a individual human man, not Jesus Christ as reformed preterist eschatology falsely teaches, using the preterist rubber ruler, creating a fairy tale 2,000+ year gap "Big Smiles"! No different than the dispy's and their 2,000+ year gap between the 69th-70th week of Daniel false teaching, more "Big Smiles"!

This evil man "He" will cause the "Future" abomination and desolation, and he will be present on earth to see the Lord's return in his destruction at the "Consummation", "Future" it has absolutely nothing to do with 30-70AD as claimed

Many that follow reformed preterist eschatology ignore the words "Even Until The Consummation" this is a future event unfulfilled, it's that simple

Daniel's AOD is future, and the bad guy causing the Abomination and Desolation will be present on earth to the "Consummation" Ultimate End

"Future" Events Unfulfilled

This "Future" figure will be present on earth making (Abomination & Desolation) to the (Consummation) or (The Ultimate End) "Future" Event(s) Unfulfilled

(The Future Consummation)

2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Merriam-Webster
Definition of consummation

1: the act of consummating the consummation of a contract by mutual signature specifically : the consummating of a marriage
2: the ultimate end

Daniel's AOD (Even Until The Consummation) "Future"!

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

"The Consummation, Future Unfulfilled"

Daniel 7:10-11KJV
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

 

[WPM]

"False" the "He" below is a individual human man, not Jesus Christ as reformed preterist eschatology falsely teaches, using the preterist rubber ruler, creating a fairy tale 2,000+ year gap "Big Smiles"! No different than the dispy's and their 2,000+ year gap between the 69th-70th week of Daniel false teaching, more "Big Smiles"!

This evil man "He" will cause the "Future" abomination and desolation, and he will be present on earth to see the Lord's return in his destruction at the "Consummation", "Future" it has absolutely nothing to do with 30-70AD as claimed

Many that follow reformed preterist eschatology ignore the words "Even Until The Consummation" this is a future event unfulfilled, it's that simple

Daniel's AOD is future, and the bad guy causing the Abomination and Desolation will be present on earth to the "Consummation" Ultimate End

"Future" Events Unfulfilled

This "Future" figure will be present on earth making (Abomination & Desolation) to the (Consummation) or (The Ultimate End) "Future" Event(s) Unfulfilled

(The Future Consummation)

2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Merriam-Webster
Definition of consummation

1: the act of consummating the consummation of a contract by mutual signature specifically : the consummating of a marriage
2: the ultimate end

Daniel's AOD (Even Until The Consummation) "Future"!

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

"The Consummation, Future Unfulfilled"

Daniel 7:10-11KJV
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

As usual, you totally duck the evidence presented. Must do that for your theology to be maintained. That is your MO. That is the way Dispes operate. I refer you back to my last avoided post.

 

[WPM]

This evil man "He" will cause the "Future" abomination and desolation, and he will be present on earth to see the Lord's return in his destruction at the "Consummation", "Future" it has absolutely nothing to do with 30-70AD as claimed

Futurists can call “the beast” (Revelation 17:8, 11) “antichrist” (1 John 4:3) and “the mystery of iniquity” (2 Thessalonians 2:7), “that man of sin” (2 Thessalonians 2:3), “the son of perdition” (2 Thessalonians 2:3) and “that Wicked” (2 Thessalonians 2:8) a literal physical “man” all they want, but they cannot get away from the fact that whoever this “man” is, he has been alive for over 2000 years.

That spirit of antichrist

1 John 2:18: “ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.”

1 John 4:3: “this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.”

The mystery of iniquity (or lawlessness)

2 Thessalonians 2:7: “For the mystery of iniquity doth already work.”

The Beast

Revelation 17:8: “The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend”

Revelation 17:8: “the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.”

Revelation 17:11: “the beast that was, and is not, even he is.”

What human being do you know has been alive on earth for over 2,000 years?

 

[Truth7t7]

What human being do you know has been alive on earth for over 2,000 years?

"Nobody", you use a "False" reformed preterist ruler in eschatology, Jerusalem's temple destruction in 70AD played no part in the future human man "He" that will cause future abomination and desolation

The human man "He" is future and will be on this earth to witness the Lord's return to his destruction in the "Consummation", "Future Unfulfilled"

As stated 30-70AD plays no part in this future human man "He"

Daniel's (Little Horn), Paul's (Man Of Sin), And John's (The Beast) A Literal Human Man,, That Will Be Present On This Earth At The Second Coming Of Jesus Christ

The figure mentioned above will be a "Future" literal human man, and he will be present on earth in a living human body to witness the "Future" second coming and final judgment as scripture clearly teaches below

Daniel's (Little Horn) Present On Earth At The Second Coming

Daniel 7:8-11KJV
8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

Paul's (Man Of Sin) Present On Earth At The Second Coming

2 Thessalonians 2:3-8KJV
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

John's (The Beast) Present On Earth At The Second Coming

Revelation 19:19-20KJV
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

There is in fact; no justification for there not to be a gap between the 69th week and the 70th.
Many have tried to place the final 7 years in the first Century, They all fail to make a viable case.

We all agree that that 7 years is divided into 2 halves.
The time periods of 3 1/2 years, 42 months and 1260 days as given to us in Daniel and Revelation, is proof enough of the second half of the 7 years before Jesus Returns.
The first half, will be a time of peace, as the peace agreement, Daniel 9:27, holds.

Your view turns a prophecy about things that would occur within a 490 year time period into a prophecy about things that would occur within at least a 2,500 year time period instead. There is no justification for that whatsoever.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Its sad that so many Christians are clueless about what God has planned for us during the end times.

Yes, your cluelessness is quite sad.

But that is how God wants it to be, so when the test comes it will weed out the ones who fail to trust the Lord for their protection.

Who are you to judge who is trusting the Lord for protection or not? A person certainly does not need to agree with your ridiculous beliefs in order to trust the Lord for protection.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

What special thing happened on that day?
There must be something to mark the end of Daniels Prophecy and saying it was just the Gospel going out to the Gentiles, doesn't cut it.

The Glorious Return of Jesus will be that special event.

What is your understanding of the fulfillment of Daniel 9:24? There are six things listed there that were to be fulfilled within the 70 weeks. For example, making an end of sin. What is your understanding of the fulfillment of that?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

All six items in Daniel 9:24, await their final fulfilment. You deny reality to think otherwise.
They WILL be fulfilled when Jesus Returns.

Please explain how those things will be fulfilled when He returns. In what way will "making an end of sin" be fulfilled when He returns? How exactly will everlasting righteousness be brought in when He returns?

 

[covenantee]

"Nobody", you use a "False" reformed preterist ruler in eschatology, Jerusalem's temple destruction in 70AD played no part in the future human man "He" that will cause future abomination and desolation

The human man "He" is future and will be on this earth to witness the Lord's return to his destruction in the "Consummation", "Future Unfulfilled"

As stated 30-70AD plays no part in this future human man "He"

Daniel's (Little Horn), Paul's (Man Of Sin), And John's (The Beast) A Literal Human Man,, That Will Be Present On This Earth At The Second Coming Of Jesus Christ

The figure mentioned above will be a "Future" literal human man, and he will be present on earth in a living human body to witness the "Future" second coming and final judgment as scripture clearly teaches below

Daniel's (Little Horn) Present On Earth At The Second Coming

Daniel 7:8-11KJV
8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

Paul's (Man Of Sin) Present On Earth At The Second Coming

2 Thessalonians 2:3-8KJV
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

John's (The Beast) Present On Earth At The Second Coming

Revelation 19:19-20KJV
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Your malinterpretations have been repeatedly exposed and debunked, yet you persist in returning to them.

Solomon described that phenomenon very accurately. Proverbs 26:11

 

[covenantee]

"False" the "He" below is a individual human man, not Jesus Christ

Have you ever heard of grammar?

Yes
or
No

?

 

[WPM]

Nice try, but we are speaking of the first resurrection of the church, not the first resurrection of a man, Jesus Christ.

I also made this clear, so you simply have no integrity. That's the nature of people who just copy and paste personal ideologies, and then purposely change what others say in response to it.


No problem. I've already concluded by this post the worthlessness of dealing with you.

It's sufficient for me to have learned your main error in symbolizing telos, rather than taking it as definitive and literal.

The Millennium of Christ is literal, because it's physical time of expiration is literal, just as the cross of Jesus. Telos is never used symbolically, nor for symbolic things. And so, to change the meaning of the word to symbolize it, does the same for both the Millinium and the cross.

It's the nature of the beast to do so:

And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws.

Changing of times, or the meaning of time itself, is changing the natural order of things, including the meaning of words, in order to teach false doctrine and make false prophecy.

Saying you are derailing the Full Preterist thread, i have move this debate to where it belongs.

Do you believe "the last (eschatos) days" are "the last (eschatos) days"?
Do you believe "the last (eschatos) day" is "the last (eschatos) day"?
Do you believe "the end" (telos) is "the end" (telos)?
Do you believe "the last (eschatos) enemy" is "the last (eschatos) enemy" (1 Cor 15:26) and will be destroyed at glorification (1 Cor 15:52-57)?
Do you believe "the last (eschatos) trump" is "the last (eschatos) trump" (1 Cor 15:52)?
Do you believe "the last (eschatos) Adam" is "the last (eschatos) Adam" (1 Cor 15:45)? This means there will not be another representative head that will stand for man as a race.