When will the "sudden destruction" from which "they will not escape" referenced in 1 Thess 5:2-3 occur and what is the scope of it?
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David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Revelation 9:1-5 gives us an insight into the bottomless pit prior to the return of the Lord (the last trumpet). In fact, the scene appears at the time of the 5th trumpet (obviously before the last trump): “And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit. And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power. And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads. And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.”
Here we have the opening of the abyss with a key before the second coming. Obviously, the place was locked up previously so that those inside couldn’t leave. Now please consider: this is evidence that demons are in the pit before the second coming, but are released for a season at the end to do their damage.
Revelation 9:11 tells us that the imprisoned demons in the abyss: “had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit [Gr. abussos or abyss], whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.”
In piecing the apocalyptic jigsaw together, we find that this dark spiritual dungeon currently has a king over it. This gives us insight into the fact that the abyss must be speaking of a kingdom. Moreover, that kingdom is imprisoned in its own darkness. The fact that there is a king currently ruling tells us that the abyss must contain a kingdom. The word kingdom means 'king with a domain'. Its meaning includes the territory and the people over whom the King rules and exercises sovereign authority. The term also includes the legislation and laws that administrate that kingdom. The word employed in the New Testament for 'kingdom' is the Greek word basileia denoting 'sovereignty, royal power, kingship and dominion'. A kingdom must therefore have (1) a king - a head, (2) a domain to rule over - subjects and territory, (3) a structure of administration - ethics, rules and laws which govern it.
We all know, there are only two spiritual realms in conflict on this earth - the kingdom of God and the kingdom of darkness. Whilst these two kingdoms manifest through physical individuals they are invisible empires. The kingdom being described which "the destroyer" rules over is assuredly not the kingdom of God. The elect angels are never located in the abyss but rather in heavenly splendor. Therefore, we must be speaking of the dark restrained invisible spiritual realm of the devil's kingdom.
Who is this king (or destroyer) that currently reigns over "the bottomless pit" or abyss? We know from the description given of this king that we are looking at an angel. In fact, the king is called: "the angel of the abyss." There is no doubt that Abaddon / Apollyon are referring to someone within the demonic realm. This begs an instant question, who is the king that rules over that dark realm?
Strong's Concordance gives us help, describing Apollyon (623) as "a destroyer (i.e. Satan)." Moreover, when we examine the root Greek word apollumi (Strong's 622) we find it means "to destroy fully (reflexively, to perish, or lose), literally or figuratively." The word is variously translated destroy, die, lose, mar, perish in the King James Version. There seems little doubt that Apollyon is referring to the devil. Time after time in Scripture we see Satan being described in such a destructive way. The name and characteristics of this being seem to identify him with that great enemy of the Church - the devil.
Revelation 9:1-3 shows the abyss occupied now by Satan's minions prior to the last trumpet. It also shows Satan (Abaddon/Apollyon) there as well. Remember Abaddon/Apollyon is a king. This king is obviously head over a kingdom (that is what king's rule over) so what kingdom or domain and subjects and territory does he rule over? This is no natural king but a spiritual king. If it is a spiritual king it must either be Christ or Satan - the only two rulers over the two conflicting spiritual kingdoms. We know that Christ is not on earth since His ascent and definitely not in the abyss. There can surely be no doubt that this is Satan.
The New Testament employs the Greek root word for Apollyon to describe the works of Satan the destroyer. 1Corinthians 10:9-10 says, “Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed (or apollumi) of serpents. Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed (or apollumi) of the destroyer.”
The same word is also used in John 10:10, in the familiar passage where Christ exposes the nature and aims of devil, saying, “The thief (Satan) cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy (or apollumi).” Anywhere we see Satan mentioned or find him described, his nature is always to destroy. That is why his name is the same in every language (Greek and Hebrew included).
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Jude supports the view of a current binding of the whole kingdom of darkness, in v 6, when he says, “the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains [Gr. desmois] under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.”
2 Peter 2:4 closely correlates with Jude v 6, saying, “God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell [Gr. tartaroo], and delivered them into chains of darkness [Gr. seiraís], to be reserved unto judgment.”
There is no record in the OT that “the angels which kept not their first estate" (Jude 6) and "the angels that sinned" (2 Peter 2:4) were in "chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment” until they were judged through the early ministry of Christ.
The victory of the cross was the key to spoiling Satan's power and kingdom. It stripped him of his enormous unchallenged global influence, caused him to be dethroned in untold millions of heathen lives and ensured he was curtailed in countless Gentile villages, towns and cities throughout the world through the faithful preaching of the Word of God.
Revelation 20:1-3 states, “And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound [Gr. deo] him a thousand years, And cast him into the abyss and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.”
In this passage we see a powerful angel coming down from heaven with a chain and a key. The next thing that happens is that the angel in view captures a “dragon” and binds him for a protracted period of time in a prison. Now before we go any further, surely no one could dispute we are looking at a symbolic depiction.
Just because you said so? I don't think so!
The kingdom of darkness has only one king, just like the kingdom of God. That passage demolishes your theology, along with multiple others.
That passage shows that Satan and his demons are already there. Your mis-location of one highly symbolic passage in the most figurative setting in Scripture is exposed by the rest of Scripture.
You have zero corroboration for your opinion of Rev 20. It is a private interpretation. That is why it should be strongly rejected by all solid Bible-believing Christians.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
JESUS is the King of Kings = Revelation 1:6 and Revelation 19:16
To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.
Same principal applies to Satan. He is the Head of the Serpent and many fallen angels of high rank and authority are under him.
Rev ch12 Then another sign appeared in heaven: a huge red dragon with seven heads, ten horns, and seven royal crowns on his heads.
His tail swept a third of the stars from the sky, tossing them to the earth
Ephesians 6:12 - because to us the wrestling is not against blood and flesh, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.
To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.
Same principal applies to Satan. He is the Head of the Serpent and many fallen angels of high rank and authority are under him.
Rev ch12 Then another sign appeared in heaven: a huge red dragon with seven heads, ten horns, and seven royal crowns on his heads.
His tail swept a third of the stars from the sky, tossing them to the earth
Ephesians 6:12 - because to us the wrestling is not against blood and flesh, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
None of your post deals with the Millennium.
Satan is bound and cannot do anything during the Millennium.
That does not make Satan big, then nor now.
God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Why would I ever claim God is small?
Satan allowed 100% control for 42 months does not change God's authority nor Satan's power at any other time in history.
You are the one changing Satan's past status, thus your post. I don't have your alleged pre-mill mindset which is not even a legitimate argument. Premil only means the Second Coming happens prior to the Millennium. Putting premill into defining the past 2,000 years is pointless. That is only an Amil mindset.
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
Have you ever contemplated that there are two separate events with Christ’s “parousia” and his “coming” as judge and executioner along with his angels and the members of his “body” (elect) ?
Christ’s “parousia” is his “presence” which was not something that was observable to humans except by the “signs” that Jesus gave to indicate that he had returned. (Matt 24:3) The signs were very observable events that all could discern if they knew what he said....and what those events meant.
At Matt 24 and Luke 21 Jesus gives us all the signs, so that they form a sort of ‘fingerprint’ that does not fit any other time period in modern history......only now can we see the global impact of such events.
“While he was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples approached him privately, saying: “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your presence [parousia] and of the conclusion of the system of things?” [end of the age]
4 In answer Jesus said to them: “Look out that nobody misleads you, 5 for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will mislead many. 6 You are going to hear of wars and reports of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for these things must take place, but the end is not yet.
7 “For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another. 8 All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress.”
So here we have the “sign” of Jesus’ “presence”.....a time when he returned, but it was not a visible event.....if it was visible, then no “sign” would have been needed. The events that made up the sign have taken place already....and the world has seen and recognized them as significant, but they have not discerned their true significance.
This “time of the end” (as foretold by Daniel) was to begin with war...not just any war, but the kind of war which mankind had never experienced before.
1914 saw the outbreak of the first global war in history.....it was followed by the Spanish flu epidemic and resulting food shortages.
Luke 21:10-11 says...
“Then he said to them: “Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. 11 There will be great earthquakes, and in one place after another food shortages and pestilences; and there will be fearful sights and from heaven great signs.”
“Great earthquakes” in modern times have the propensity to take many lives, as we have seen in recent times. Disease epidemics have continued, but like the Spanish flu, C19 has taken a global toll.
The “fearful sights” and “great signs” from heaven could well be the heinous weapons that modern day warfare uses to annihilate their enemies in these last days. The superpowers have nuclear capabilities that could destroy all life on this planet.....fearful indeed for the unbelievers....but God will never allow them to destroy his earth. (Rev 18:4)
Jesus goes on to say.....
“Then people will hand you over to tribulation and will kill you, and you will be hated by all the nations on account of my name. 10 Then, too, many will be stumbled and will betray one another and will hate one another. 11 Many false prophets will arise and mislead many; 12 and because of the increasing of lawlessness, the love of the greater number will grow cold. 13 But the one who has endured to the end will be saved. 14 And this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.”
Many have risen up and claimed to have Jesus as their spiritual guide.....well known religious institutions or individuals can all be deceived by the same enemy......but their actions betray their words. This is all too familiar as these last days draw to a close. The increasing of lawlessness has destroyed people's ability to trust....it seems no one can be trusted these days. Even once trusted institutions (religious and secular) are showing how corrupt they really are, and probably have been all along.....it is all being exposed or “laid bare” as it says in 2 Pet 3:10. Where there is no trust, there can be no love.
'Endurance' is the quality that will see the genuine disciples of Christ survive the end of this present world system, which we see is falling apart in every nation. We are on the brink of drastic change....and it will be disastrous.
The short rule of the eighth king of Revelation is about to begin....
"And the wild beast that was but is not, it is also itself an eighth king, but springs from the seven, and it goes off into destruction.” (Revelation 17:11)
This eighth king springs from the seven, so it is a combination of all nations....which could only be the UN, given 'teeth" after decades of ineptitude.
Continued...
Rev 17:9-11.....tells us that the prostitute (Babylon the great) is riding a beast with seven heads.....
“This calls for a mind that has wisdom: The seven heads mean seven mountains, where the woman sits on top. 10 And there are seven kings: Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet arrived; but when he does arrive, he must remain a short while. 11 And the wild beast that was but is not, it is also an eighth king, but it springs from the seven, and it goes off into destruction.”
Daniel gives us the March of world powers, five had fallen in the first century when Revelation was written, one was ruling (the Roman empire) and one had not yet arrived.....which proved to be Britain. In these last days, Britain allied itself with her estranged daughter, the USA as the last kings in this prophesy.
Daniel 2:44 says about our day....
“In the days of those kings [the ones now ruling] the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed. And this kingdom will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it alone will stand forever”.
Identifying the prostitute “Babylon the great”, in Revelation 17:3-6 John sees......
“a woman sitting on a scarlet-colored wild beast that was full of blasphemous names and that had seven heads and ten horns. 4 The woman was clothed in purple and scarlet, and she was adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, and she had in her hand a golden cup that was full of disgusting things and the unclean things of her sexual immorality. 5 On her forehead was written a name, a mystery: “Babylon the Great, the mother of the prostitutes and of the disgusting things of the earth.” 6 And I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of the holy ones and with the blood of the witnesses of Jesus.”
Identifying “Babylon the great” then is important because God commands his worshippers to....
“Get out of her, my people, if you do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues. 5 For her sins have massed together clear up to heaven, and God has called her acts of injustice to mind.”
We have to remove ourselves from being under the influence of this “harlot” (spiritual prostitute) because God is about to bring her to a horrible but deserved end.......we have to know what it is that we are 'getting out of', if we do not want to go down with her. She is in an adulterous relationship with “the kings of the earth”. Forming friendships with the world that Jesus told us to be no part of. (John 18:36; James 4:4).
She is a spiritual entity that has enveloped the whole world with her false religion and worship of false gods.
The most reprehensible part of false religion is the "weeds" (tares) that Jesus foretold....counterfeit “Christianity” would be sown by the devil very early in the second century.
Unless we know what true Christianity is, we can be misled into believing that what passes for "Christianity" today, actually is.
These are momentous times....but those with eyes to see will know exactly where we are in the events of Bible prophesy.
The Lord's Prayer tells us to pray for 'God's kingdom' to "come" so that God's will can be "done on earth as it is in heaven"....God's Kingdom will crush all corrupt, satanically inspired human governments out of existence, and replace them with God's rulership.
Rev 21:2-4 will be the result.
Rev 17:9-11.....tells us that the prostitute (Babylon the great) is riding a beast with seven heads.....
“This calls for a mind that has wisdom: The seven heads mean seven mountains, where the woman sits on top. 10 And there are seven kings: Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet arrived; but when he does arrive, he must remain a short while. 11 And the wild beast that was but is not, it is also an eighth king, but it springs from the seven, and it goes off into destruction.”
Daniel gives us the March of world powers, five had fallen in the first century when Revelation was written, one was ruling (the Roman empire) and one had not yet arrived.....which proved to be Britain. In these last days, Britain allied itself with her estranged daughter, the USA as the last kings in this prophesy.
Daniel 2:44 says about our day....
“In the days of those kings [the ones now ruling] the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed. And this kingdom will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it alone will stand forever”.
Identifying the prostitute “Babylon the great”, in Revelation 17:3-6 John sees......
“a woman sitting on a scarlet-colored wild beast that was full of blasphemous names and that had seven heads and ten horns. 4 The woman was clothed in purple and scarlet, and she was adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, and she had in her hand a golden cup that was full of disgusting things and the unclean things of her sexual immorality. 5 On her forehead was written a name, a mystery: “Babylon the Great, the mother of the prostitutes and of the disgusting things of the earth.” 6 And I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of the holy ones and with the blood of the witnesses of Jesus.”
Identifying “Babylon the great” then is important because God commands his worshippers to....
“Get out of her, my people, if you do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues. 5 For her sins have massed together clear up to heaven, and God has called her acts of injustice to mind.”
We have to remove ourselves from being under the influence of this “harlot” (spiritual prostitute) because God is about to bring her to a horrible but deserved end.......we have to know what it is that we are 'getting out of', if we do not want to go down with her. She is in an adulterous relationship with “the kings of the earth”. Forming friendships with the world that Jesus told us to be no part of. (John 18:36; James 4:4).
She is a spiritual entity that has enveloped the whole world with her false religion and worship of false gods.
The most reprehensible part of false religion is the "weeds" (tares) that Jesus foretold....counterfeit “Christianity” would be sown by the devil very early in the second century.
Unless we know what true Christianity is, we can be misled into believing that what passes for "Christianity" today, actually is.
These are momentous times....but those with eyes to see will know exactly where we are in the events of Bible prophesy.
The Lord's Prayer tells us to pray for 'God's kingdom' to "come" so that God's will can be "done on earth as it is in heaven"....God's Kingdom will crush all corrupt, satanically inspired human governments out of existence, and replace them with God's rulership.
Rev 21:2-4 will be the result.
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
Jude 1:6
"And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day."
Would there be another day of judgment besides the 5th Trumpet?
Where does Revelation 9 call them demons?
There is no excuse that Jude is too symbolic to understand. A demon is a spirit that indwells a human, and takes control of their mind. Why make up an interpretation that does not even fit, when you have clear Scripture pointing out the rebellious angels are locked up for a future day of judgment?
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
No they don't.
42 months is 3.5 years. There are several seasons in each year. In fact in 42 months, there could be 10 or 11 little seasons.
The period after the Millennium does not have to be 42 months, 3 years, or even one year. It could be only 2 months for Satan to raise an army of deceieved humans.
Satan's 42 months is not even for Satan. It is for those who choose to be beheaded over receiving the mark.
Besides, Satan and all the angels loosed out of the pit, have to reach heaven, be cast out of heaven at the 7th Trumpet, before those 42 months can even start.
Those 42 months do not even include the 5th and 6th Trumpets. The 7 Thunders have to sound between the 6th and 7th Trumpet, even before the 7th Trumpet can sound.
The angels are loosed and moving around during the 5th Trumpet, 6th Trumpet, and all the Thunders before they are kicked out after trying to assault heaven, during the 7th Trumpet sounding.
The 42 month extension divides the week of the 7th Trumpet into two halves. The last 3.5 days are after the 42 months and start with the 2 witnesses being killed and laying there dead for 3.5 days.
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
No they don't.
Satan's little season is after the 1,000 years.
"And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season."
You are thinking of:
“Therefore, rejoice, heaven and you who live there! But woe to you, land and sea,
for the Adversary has come down to you,
and he is very angry, because he knows that his time is short!”
When the dragon saw that he had been hurled down to the earth, he went in pursuit of the woman who had given birth to the male child. But the woman was given the two wings of the great eagle, so that she could fly to her place in the desert, where she is taken care of for a season and two seasons and half a season, away from the serpent’s presence. The serpent spewed water like a river out of its mouth after the woman, in order to sweep her away in the flood; but the land came to her rescue — it opened its mouth and swallowed up the river which the dragon had spewed out of its mouth. The dragon was infuriated over the woman and went off to fight the rest of her children, those who obey God’s commands and bear witness to Yeshua. Then the dragon stood on the seashore;"
During the 7th Trumpet, Satan and company are hurled to the earth.
Satan is standing there when the declaration is made ready to start his Babylonian empire in the very next verse.
That 42 months correlates to Satan's short time after being kicked out of heaven.
The little season is after Satan is loosed out of the pit.
Being loosed out of the pit is the exact opposite of being cast out of heaven.
One direction comes from under the earth. The other direction comes from heaven down to earth.
Satan is headed in a different direction for each time period that follows what just happened to Satan.
Obviously Satan was not bound up in heaven nor cast out of the pit. He was cast out of heaven and then 42 months later bound in the pit.
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