If atheists get accused of taking verses out of context, how do we know fundamentalists making those accusations aren’t doing the same as well?

[Wrangler]

You should go and watch the great film "A Few God Men".

"A Few God Men" has become one of my favorite movies.

 

[Wrangler]

This is where you struggle. You have no real evidence, no objective factual evidence to support your claims of God.

Again, there are tons of evidence. For instance, no response to 1/137 and many other fine tuning observations that imply a fine tuner.

Friend, denial is not just a river in Egypt.

 

[Wrangler]

Another epic fail / own goal.

Not at all. Keep denying the archeological evidence that supports the Bible.

Regarding evidence that disproves the Bible, please create a separate thread. It would be fascinating to delve into what people deem ‘disproves’ the Bible, starting with how come archeology also proves the Bible.

 

[bbyrd009]

Just b/c I used words like bias in a way you don't, your support for me changed?

ha well not only that, although that is kind of a symptom?

I call BS. It is not about me. Atheists always try to make everything so personal, contrary to the claim of being driven by science and objective evidenc

well, im honestly trying to make a similar point viz you, as nicely as possible
i mean, argue the existence of God all you like, but at a certain point imo you will find a corrected copy of the I AM passages ("you cannot point to Me, yet here I AM"), and put that together with an Empty Room, and hopefully be embarrassed

 

[bbyrd009]

It is funny to see how you must move the goal post with nearly every reply.

crap like tis doesnt help your case much either, and wadr it flows from you like a river; how am i moving any goal posts?

 

[Wrangler]

crap like tis doesnt help your case much either, and wadr it flows from you like a river; how am i moving any goal posts?

Moving to attack me, personally, from atheists not interpreting Scripture correctly. See OP.

 

[Lapidem]

It’s not false. You are in denial.

It is false. Quantity of people choosing to believe something does not equate to the belief being true. That's fact and as much as you can't handle that truth it remains solid concrete fact. It is not up for debate.

 

[Lapidem]

Again, there are tons of evidence. For instance, no response to 1/137 and many other fine tuning observations that imply a fine tuner.

That's twice you've ignored my statements on that issue. This is intellectually dishonest. I have answered the point. Third time of stating this. Fine tuning, 1/137 indicates possible design, a designer This DOES NOT by any standard equate to your God being that designer. Again you are incapable of critical thinking. You can't debate this honestly.

 

[Wrangler]

Quantity of people choosing to believe something does not equate to the belief being true. That's fact and as much as you can't handl

The undisputed fact is the vast majority of people believe in God. More than that - and what you are forced to deny - is that it is not merely beliefs equally based on the same thing. Many Christians are NOT merely believers, they are Witnesses; they have experiences with the divine.

On top of that is the objective science, such as the language of DNA written into molecules, 1/137 and the extreme fine tuning of universal constants that allow life to exist ALL imply God.

What do you got?

 

[Wrangler]

Fine tuning, 1/137 indicates possible design, a designer This DOES NOT by any standard equate to your God being that designer.

LOL. Occam’s Razor. There is no better explanation.

 

[bbyrd009]

Moving to attack me, personally, from atheists not interpreting Scripture correctly. See OP.

ah well fwiw my interest was more in the lack of interpretation by fundies…tbh i could relate most of what the atheists are saying to Scripture whereas you are i guess the victim, not sure why i am being put in that position, but there it is

anyway, @ “moving to attack,” i like you for the most part Wrangler, and it pains me to see you um bringing a sword to a gunfight, so to speak. You started demonstrating that being right was more important to you, and so i commented upon it.

The “atheist” has even acknowledged that Yah might indeed “exist;” are you anywhere near willing to entertain the opposite? Bc i tell you in all sincerity that among the flowery language @ “I AM” lies the quite plain message that Spirit does not exist, and yet is more real than what does.

and that is also witnessed in the making idols of wood passages and others, so im not sure yet how clearly you understand how abhorrent this Making Sure God Exists thing really is. Faith in something that exists is no faith at all (by extraction)

So strangely, not, the believer is in the position of actually refuting the Bible, while the atheist exhibits principles that adhere to It (even if not all of his statements necessarily do). Fwiw agnostics do even more so in my experience, but thats a diff thread.

 

[bbyrd009]

so in a word, there is a place for you both to come together if you want to, but for the believer it is unfortunately right where the atheist is; you do not know that God exists for sure, and so you reveal this by insisting various subjective proofs that He does, not realizing the exposure this lends you. And since Yah demonstrably and admittedly does not exist (if you believe the Bible), but rather causes to exist, the atheist might find some semblance of faith by a different name, a less religious one, shall we say, since really it has nothing to do with religion, but having a relationship with whatever (tf) brought everything about

Why do you ask My Name, since you wouldn’t understand it anyway?

 

[Wrangler]

anyway, @ “moving to attack,” i like you for the most part Wrangler, and it pains me to see you um bringing a sword to a gunfight, so to speak. You started demonstrating that being right was more important to you, and so i commented upon it.

Being right is more important than what? You're just doubling down on the personal attack, having nothing to do with the OP.

It is truly rich that Atheist go on a Christian forum to deny God even exists - when we have eye witness testimony that not only did he send his son, he resurrected the man Jesus, which is proof and our guarentee of our future inheritance - to later cry about others demonstrating being right is more important. The unmitigated gall!

The “atheist” has even acknowledged that Yah might indeed “exist;” are you anywhere near willing to entertain the opposite?

No. I testify for the Defense of Yahweh, not against him.

So strangely, not, the believer is in the position of actually refuting the Bible, while the atheist exhibits principles that adhere to It (even if not all of his statements necessarily do). Fwiw agnostics do even more so in my experience, but thats a diff thread.

Yea, right! The 1st Biblical principle to get right is the Sh'ma, the most important commandment. You have to obey his commandments, talk about them all the time and put them on door frames. Atheists removed them from schools. You are as far away from adhering to the principles of the Bible as possible.

HINT: You cannot love your God with all your heart, soul and strength if you only acknowledge he *might* exist.


Listen, Israel! The LORD our God is the only true God![a] 5 So love the LORD your God with all your heart, soul, and strength. 6 Memorize his laws 7 and tell them to your children over and over again. Talk about them all the time, whether you're at home or walking along the road or going to bed at night, or getting up in the morning. 8 Write down copies and tie them to your wrists and foreheads to help you obey them. 9 Write these laws on the door frames of your homes and on your town gates.
Deuteronomy 6:4-9 (CEV)

 

[Lapidem]

The undisputed fact is the vast majority of people believe in God.

Belief in something does not equate to that something being real.

More than that - and what you are forced to deny - is that it is not merely beliefs equally based on the same thing. Many Christians are NOT merely believers, they are Witnesses; they have experiences with the divine.

Belief in something does not equate to that something being real. A person subjectively attributing a life experience to their belief system again does not equate to that experience actually being what they think it is. For example:

Person reads their horoscope which says there is a death of some kind in the air. Later that day they get a phone call telling them that their aunt has died. Person then equates this experience as being proof that horoscopes are real and accurate. This is known as Cognitive Bias.

People have experiences all the time. They choose to attribute those experiences according to their levels of Cognitive Bias which is heavily influenced by their level of religious indoctrination. They have a need to attribute an experience to divine intervention of some kind and so they choose to believe that this is what the experience was. Cognitive Bias. No proof, no objective analysis, no evidence, merely a person's subjective and fallible desire to support their own belief system.

On top of that is the objective science, such as the language of DNA written into molecules, 1/137 and the extreme fine tuning of universal constants that allow life to exist ALL imply God.

I'll state it for the 4th time and keep doing so until you have the intellectual honesty to concede the truth. Evidence of a designer/creator in NO WAY equates to proof of the all-powerful all-loving Christian God. It is simply evidence of a designer of some kind for which there are numerous possibilities.

 

[Lapidem]

LOL. Occam’s Razor. There is no better explanation.

Like so many things in this thread you don't understand Occam's Razor.

 

[Lapidem]

so in a word, there is a place for you both to come together if you want to, but for the believer it is unfortunately right where the atheist is; you do not know that God exists for sure, and so you reveal this by insisting various subjective proofs that He does, not realizing the exposure this lends you. And since Yah demonstrably and admittedly does not exist (if you believe the Bible), but rather causes to exist, the atheist might find some semblance of faith by a different name, a less religious one, shall we say, since really it has nothing to do with religion, but having a relationship with whatever (tf) brought everything about

Why do you ask My Name, since you wouldn’t understand it anyway?

Much wisdom in this post

 

[Wrangler]

A person subjectively attributing a life experience to their belief system again does not equate to that experience actually being what they think it is.

Denial. A witness is not appealing to subjective reasoning.

 

[Wrangler]

No proof, no objective analysis, no evidence

You are right in a witness not being objective analysis. Most proof is not objective analysis, e.g., documents. Again, let's go back to walking in the woods and happening upon a book.

The book is proof. The book is evidence.

The objective analysis is not by the jury not by the evidence, which includes witness testimony.

Regarding the objective analysis of the book, the existence of the book, implies the existence of a writer.

Witnesses are evidence. Your own sources confirm it. A witness is not merely asserting their believe but what they experienced first hand. You are dismissing this moutain of evidence - as there are billions of witnesses - due to your bias. Witness testimony is accepted all the time as acceptable evidence. And friend, billions are credible witnesses. As am I.

I once was a humanist. Then I had a supernatural experience. There is no doubt about it. It was independently confirmed. It is proof. I am the proof. And there is no way around it. No way around it. And I am not alone. You are drowning in evidence. How do you explain denying the existence of what you are drowning in? How do you explain my experience?

 

[Wrangler]

Like so many things in this thread you don't understand Occam's Razor.

Wrong. I probably understood Occam's Razor before you were born. What is a simpler explanation:

1. God created the universe?
2. There is an infinite number of universes, whose origins still cannot be explained?

 

[Lapidem]

It is truly rich that Atheist go on a Christian forum to deny God even exists - when we have eye witness testimony that not only did he send his son, he resurrected the man Jesus, which is proof and our guarentee of our future inheritance

No you do not have any eye-witness testimony and again you simply don't understand thee language terms you are using here. An eye-witness is a real living person who can stand up in court and declare what they have seen, physically with their own eyes. You have no such person. What you have is a book of words written by men. As we have already established a book is proof of nothing. The books of J K Rowling do not mean that Harry Potter is a living breathing entity either past or present. You should also realise that even if one of those books contains a verifiable true fact this doesn't mean any of the rest of the book is factual. For example if the Harry Potter books mention a city called London and a clock called Big Ben, we do not think, ah well we can see London and Big Ben, those historical references are clearly true and so the rest of the book must also be true and not fiction and therefore Harry Potter an Hermione Granger really exist and so do flying cars and wizards.

To escape the prison you are trapped in as I have said you need to first acquire some humility to be able to entertain the notion that you may have been lied to and duped in one or more ways. Clinging to religious piousness and pride simply tightens your prison shackles and guarantees you will waste many more years in this religious distraction when you should be moving forward on a path of discovery and enlightenment and personal development.

The Bible is NOT literal in a great many areas. You need to work out the parts that are Big Ben references and the parts that are Harry Potter references. While ever you keep taking the whole thing literally you blind yourself to the important secrets within it and pretty much make yourself look a fool as the literal interpretation brings 1000s of contradictions, errors and inconsistencies.

No. I testify for the Defense of Yahweh, not against him.

No you are testifying for the defence of self, ego, pride and false reasoning. If there is a designer then he/she designed you with intellect and the capacity to think rationally. To cast that aside and engage in the fantasy of "mythology as fact" is to ignore your designer and to deny who you are and how they made you. You have become a sheep blindly following all the other sheep believing that because there are so many sheep they must somehow be right. This is not critical thinking. It's laziness. It's easier to just go along with the masses with that comfort blanket than to be honest with oneself and confront reality.

I tell you the truth:

ONLY DEAD FISH SWIM WITH THE FLOW

Yea, right! The 1st Biblical principle to get right is the Sh'ma, the most important commandment. You have to obey his commandments, talk about them all the time and put them on door frames. Atheists removed them from schools. You are as far away from adhering to the principles of the Bible as possible.

HINT: You cannot love your God with all your heart, soul and strength if you only acknowledge he *might* exist.


Listen, Israel! The LORD our God is the only true God![a] 5 So love the LORD your God with all your heart, soul, and strength. 6 Memorize his laws 7 and tell them to your children over and over again. Talk about them all the time, whether you're at home or walking along the road or going to bed at night, or getting up in the morning. 8 Write down copies and tie them to your wrists and foreheads to help you obey them. 9 Write these laws on the door frames of your homes and on your town gates.
Deuteronomy 6:4-9 (CEV)

You're taking the Bible literally again. Aside from that all you're quoting is a defacto basic system of teaching to perpetuate a belief system. You'll find the same in every mainstream religion. They all understand the need to prey on innocent children who can't yet think for themselves and indoctrinate them to help keep the belief system going. It's a form of abuse. If you believed a fraction of the nonsense you have spouted in this thread you'd believe that indoctrination wasn't necessary at all and that God would reveal himself to children when he is ready to do so. Yet Christians don't do this. They forcefully indoctrinate their kids, make them believe in God, make the pray, make them say Grace a the dinner table and so on. Clear to see the hypocrisy in this.

The Bible is not literal in a great many places. Genesis is NOT talking about the creation of the universe. It's outlining the processes of Alchemy using allegorical terms that are recognisable to those with the "eyes to see" and "ears to hear". These are the "mysteries of the kingdom" referred to by the character Jesus in the Bible. You are evidently not ready. Up to you how long you remain in darkness.