No More Death

[Truth7t7]

Will your two prophets be born with the Holy Spirit at birth, as was John and Jesus? You know...."anointed"?

Of course I believe in a literal, future, visible, coming of Jesus Christ in the heavens, but even more so.
He will be in flaming fire, taking vengeance on all the unsaved.
KJV 2 Thes. 1:7-10. It will be a simultaneous event of redemption for the saints, and death and destruction for the unsaved wicked, all in the same day. Luke 17:28-30

Jesus isn't going to die and lay in a physical street in Jerusalem as Revelation chapter 11 describes, do you have more symbolic allegory to explain this, smiles!

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[ewq1938]

Yes, though you may not follow or agree with me on this, the two witnesses are John the Baptist and Jesus.

Jesus is immortal which means he cannot be one of the two prophets killed in Rev 11.

 

[Timtofly]

Same thing is true for Revelation 19 and 20.

Revelation 20 does not go back to the birth of Satan, nor Jesus.

In Revelation 19, Satan is defeated at Armageddon, and we know that, even if Satan is not even mentioned in Revelation 19.

After his two hench beings are cast into the LOF, Satan is bound in the pit. How is that not chronological?

Do you not realize that Satan is not even mentioned until Revelation 12? Unless you think he is the angel falling to earth to open the pit in the 5th Trumpet. Or:

"And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon."

Revelation 12 introduces the dragon into the Trumpets. There has not even been 42 months nor the AoD yet, mentioned in the Trumpets, and we are hearing the 7th Trumpet already sounding.

 

[Earburner]

Jesus is immortal which means he cannot be one of the two prophets killed in Rev 11.

If you'll notice, Revelation is a series of visions back and forth, seeing symbolically in the past, present, future and even in eternity.

 

[ewq1938]

If you'll notice, Revelation is a series of visions back and forth, seeing symbolically in the past, present, future and even in eternity.

Christ is immortal and cannot die again. In Rev 11 two men will be killed and not be buried. Does that sound like a repeat of Christ's death and burial?

 

[Truth7t7]

Christ is immortal and cannot die again. In Rev 11 two men will be killed and not be buried. Does that sound like a repeat of Christ's death and burial?

Exactly!

Jesus "Was Dead", and "He Is Alive Forever", he holds the keys of "Death"!

The poster wants to put Jesus in a dead body, laying in a Jerusalem street, as a wicked world watches in celebration, "Morbid"!

Revelation 1:18KJV
18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

 

[Earburner]

Exactly!

Jesus "Was Dead", and "He Is Alive Forever", he holds the keys of "Death"!

The poster wants to put Jesus in a dead body, laying in a Jerusalem street, as a wicked world watches in celebration, "Morbid"!

Revelation 1:18KJV
18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

For all, I shall repeat what I said:
If you'll notice, the book of Revelation is a series of visions back and forth, seeing symbolically into the past, present, future and even into eternity.

 

[Earburner]

Jesus is immortal which means he cannot be one of the two prophets killed in Rev 11.

During Jesus' joint ministry* with John the Baptist for 3.5 years/1260 days (John- 6 months and Jesus- 3 years), they both* most certainly have appeared before the great and terrible day of the Lord, of which is in waiting because of God's Age of Grace through faith in Jesus.

* Zech. 4
[14] Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by [for] the LORD of the whole earth.

 

[ewq1938]

During Jesus' joint ministry* with John the Baptist for 3.5 years/1260 days

That doesn't come from the bible.

 

[Timtofly]

Genesis tells us plainly that "man became a living soul", he didn't receive one.

That is the whole point.

One's soul is not cast into the LOF. One is cast into the LOF, because they are a soul.

 

[Timtofly]

I don't believe the Bible teaches the Father views those who are in Christ according to His grace through the gift of faith as DEAD to Him because of sin. We WERE the walking dead before we heard the Gospel, and by grace through faith in the power of the Word and Spirit we believed! We who were dead have been made spiritually alive through Him. When we have His Spirit in us, we ARE spiritually alive, and have His promise that we (spirit) shall NEVER die. Our body of mortal, corruptible, natural flesh is destined to die because of sin, and death, the consequence of sin. That's why our body too must be resurrected to immortality and incorruptibility and reunited with our eternal spirits that come back with Christ when He comes again. Christ would not say the life we receive through the Spirit in us is eternal if our spirits, like our body of mortal flesh was also destined to die with our bodies.

Through His Spirit in our spirit, we are the likeness of Christ spiritually. And what shall be complete at His coming we don't yet know, but we know that when He comes again, we shall be made physically immortal and incorruptible as He is. Then we will once more be "very good" new complete living souls (immortal body & eternal spirit) fit for life on the new earth with Christ forever!

Then why call the second birth the same thing as the first, physical resurrection, which can only happen after physical death?

You separated the two events in this post.

But yet hold to the first resurrection as itself being the second birth in other posts.

The first resurrection is being made physically incorruptible. That is the permanent physical body that cannot see destruction in the LOF, the second death. This new heavenly body from God cannot even ever die physically again. That is why it is permanent, and not temporal, meaning it has to die eventually.

The first resurrection is after physical death.

The second birth has to happen prior to physical death. It is out of Adam's dead state. After the second birth we are no longer the walking dead. We are the spiritually alive though the flesh is dead. Only in physical death will the flesh be changed into God's permanent incorruptible physical body.

 

[Timtofly]

In case you forgot, in the Garden, A&E were innocent before they ate of the forbidden tree. Prior to that, they were neither evil or good.
They were just innocent, and had not yet eaten of the Tree of Life or the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
Therefore, they did not have eternal life or eternal existence of any kind.

Your post is human garbage theology.

They had a permanent incorruptible physical body. They had a spirit put on over the physical body. They were as Paul stated clothed in the incorruptible, a body, and clothed in immortality, a spirit that covered the physical body.

What they had no need of were physical clothes. They had the spirit, a light completely covering their physical body.

Of course they were eternal beings. God said that the moment Adam disobeyed God, they would die both physically and spiritually. Adam went from a permanent incorruptible physical body to a temporal corruptible physical body. The spirit was removed and placed in the presence of God in heaven. That is where all spirits are, in the presence of God, until they can be put back on at the Second Coming. The process of being glorified is putting on the spirit.

The Second Coming and the church glorified is the complete restoration of Adam's disobedience and death.

We won't be "just innocent and non eternal" needing to eat of the tree of life. Neither were Adam and Eve.

 

[Truth7t7]

For all, I shall repeat what I said:
If you'll notice, the book of Revelation is a series of visions back and forth, seeing symbolically into the past, present, future and even into eternity.

Our conversation and responses surrounded your false claims in post #495 below, stating Jesus was going to be one of the (Two Witnesses) stop the false distraction

Earburner, Quote Post #495 Below

"Yes, though you may not follow or agree with me on this, the two witnesses are John the Baptist and Jesus."

 

[Timtofly]

Yes, I agree.
I said:
"Eph. 2:7 is describing the ages/times of people who were to come, during the age of God's Grace in the world, ever since Pentecost."

These are God’s ages to come. God’s ages are plural. There is the age of grace, and then the Millennium of Jesus ruling on earth.

"That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus."

The exceeding riches will be seen in the Millennium reign, even more so than they do now.

 

[rwb]

Then why call the second birth the same thing as the first, physical resurrection, which can only happen after physical death?

Do you mean the new birth? The birth that comes to mankind in time, and is from above? The new birth mankind MUST partake of to know and enter the spiritual Kingdom of God? The birth that living human beings obtain by the Holy Spirit in them? If this is what you mean by the second birth, it is not a second birth but is NEW, and mankind is able to obtain this NEW birth through Christ, Who is the first resurrection from the dead. When mankind has part in this new birth, he/she has gone from being spiritually dead in trespasses and sins, to being spiritually alive by Christ's Spirit in us. Even those who have eternal spiritual life in Him physically die. But there is no fear of physical death for all who have part in this new birth from above. Because they will be physically resurrected to immortal and incorruptible bodies when the last trump sounds.

 

[Timtofly]

First of all, the Jewish concept: "one day is equal to a thousand years x seven days = 7000 years", is not biblical.
The religion of the nation of Israel is not of the spirit/mind of Christ, and therefore is of that spirit of antichrist.

So stop attributing Revelation 20 and 2 Peter 3 as just some Jewish concept.

See them as the Word of God.

You are turning God’s Holy Word into some spirit of antichrist.

2 Peter 3 and Revelation 20 is the mind of Christ.

Have there been 6,000 years since Adam disobeyed or not?

 

[Timtofly]

The scripture says that Jesus is "the firstborn from the dead".

All the people under the OC, who were of faith, were written in the "Book of Remembrance" before God. Malachi 3:16.
Though the Holy Spirit of God did speak and work through them, NONE had the Holy Spirit dwelling within them permanently.
Therefore, in the beginning days of Pentecost, those who were "remembered" by God, were not forgotten, and as a result of Jesus' shed blood, they also were given the Gift of the Holy Spirit, aka white robes.
The symbolic 144,000 were literally from the tribes of Israel, during the OC. They were in "remembrance" by God, but are now written in the Book of Life, waiting for the Glorious return of Jesus.

You have no proof the Holy Spirit was not at work always. The day of Pentecost is not the same as the Holy Spirit working in every human from conception. John the Baptist lived and died prior to Pentecost.

The 144k are alive on earth today, not some dead people from the first century prior to Jesus being born.

Was Jesus the first son of God to be born human? Was Jesus the only son of God to be born human? How many sons does God have?

Jesus did not show up one day on the Mount of Olives like some claim here, prior to a physical birth. He was the firstborn, since Adam was created, not born.

Coming into flesh via birth is what it means to be the firstborn from the dead. Mortals are the dead. Jesus did not have to die and be resurrected to be the perfect son of God. Jesus was the perfect son of God from conception. Being firstborn in this verse does not mean the first to die and resurrect. It literally means to be the first born and God in human flesh.

Colossians 1:15 says the same thing.

"Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:"

 

[Timtofly]

It's amazing how you and all base your conclusions on assumptions by your interpretations, when in reality I am not.
Quick question: before the shed blood of Christ on the cross, for the permanent removal of a person's sins, could Enoch and Elijah or anyone enter into the KoG/heaven?
Since your answer should be a definite "NO", knowing that the blood of animals cannot permanently forgive and remove sins from a person, why then do you believe that Enoch and Elijah were whisked off this earth, and straight up into God's Heaven?
Ans. You speculate and assume too much through the words describing their fate.
Gen. 5
[24] And Enoch walked with God:
and he was not; for God took him.
> Where was Enoch taken? Many assume it to be UP into God's Heaven.
Could it simply be that Enoch DIED, but no one knew where?

2 Kings 2
[11] And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.
> Many assume that Elijah went up into God's Heaven by a whirlwind.
Or could it be that Eijah went up into the heaven that naturally causes whirlwinds?
Btw, are there really horses in heaven?
Note: ONLY Elisha was a witness to that event. What does that scripture say about "two or more witnesses"??

No!! Before the death and resurrection of the Lord Jesus, NO ONE could be, or ever would be in God's Heaven, without the shed blood of Jesus Christ being applied to them.
God is Holy, and both Enoch and Elijah were sinful men because of their corruptible flesh.
They also could not have the permanency of God's Holy Spirit during their lifetimes, but their names were written in God's Book of "Remembrance", as shown being under the altar in Rev. 6:9-11.

Paradise is a literal physical place. The KoG is a concept. Government is a concept. Humans are litetal.

Personally I think Elijah was Enoch who would return, probably more than once. He was with God in literal Paradise, when not visiting the earth.

The KoG is a body of humans, not a literal place.

Enoch was translated. The shed blood was applied.

From God's point of view, the Lamb was slain even before creation and the blood was available at all times.

From your limited view as a mortal, "dead" human, the Cross was in 30AD, a one time event.

Souls under the alter is a symbolic reference, not a literal place, nor literal souls. You can count Abel, but Enoch was the first soul under the alter. He was the first to be translated to never see death. Every one else had to wait in sheol in Abraham's bosom.

 

[Timtofly]

the locust are given a specific amount of time

the gathering from one end of heaven to another will take super fast like Jesus said

The gathering of the church from Paradise is not the final harvest in Matthew 13. That is not the separation of sheep and goats in Matthew 25.

There are no goats currently in heaven in Paradise.

Matthew 13 and Matthew 25 are living humans who have never physically died. Jesus and the angels are on earth for them.

 

[Timtofly]

For all, I shall repeat what I said:
If you'll notice, the book of Revelation is a series of visions back and forth, seeing symbolically into the past, present, future and even into eternity.

Jesus did not lie in the streets of Jerusalem ever. His body was placed in a tomb. Revelation 11 as "your historical vision" fails. Revelation 11 has never happened in the past. The temple is not the first century temple. The temple in Revelation 11 has not even been built yet.