How are we to reckon ourselves as being dead to sin?

[Jim B]

Just keep on doing what you doing my dear friend, point others to Christ Jesus and time has been shortened.

Correct and sound doctrine is crucial to salvation and growth in spiritual maturity. It comes as no surprise that God warns us many times in Scripture to be aware of false teaching. Christians need to be able to recognize false teachers in order to know when they are being led down a path that God did not intend!

What does the Bible say about False Prophets?

God speaks harshly against false prophets, occult practices, and other means of sorcery. God describes a false prophet as one who “presumes to speak in My name anything I have not commanded, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods” (Deuteronomy 18:20). In Jeremiah 14:14, God says these evildoers prophesy lies, offering “false visions, divinations, idolatries, and the delusions of their own minds.”


20 But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, is to be put to death.”

Ezekiel 13:9
9 My hand will be against the prophets who see false visions and utter lying divinations. They will not belong to the council of my people or be listed in the records of Israel, nor will they enter the land of Israel. Then you will know that I am the Sovereign LORD.

Jeremiah 14:14
14 Then the LORD said to me, “The prophets are prophesying lies in my name. I have not sent them or appointed them or spoken to them. They are prophesying to you false visions, divinations, idolatries and the delusions of their own minds.

Jeremiah 23:16
16 This is what the LORD Almighty says: “Do not listen to what the prophets are prophesying to you; they fill you with false hopes. They speak visions from their own minds, not from the mouth of the LORD.

Luke 6:26
26 Woe to you when everyone speaks well of you, for that is how their ancestors treated the false prophets.

Matthew 24:24
24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

Matthew 16:11-12
11 How is it you don’t understand that I was not talking to you about bread? But be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees.”
12 Then they understood that he was not telling them to guard against the yeast used in bread, but against the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees.

2 Timothy 4:3-4

3 For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
4 They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.

Acts 20:28-30
28 Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.

29 I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock.
30 Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them.

Keep on rebuking, correcting and reproving, in love, for we all need correction.
J.

Jesus said to love your neighbor as yourself (citing the Old Testament). That is far more important than any supposed rebuking, correcting and reproving, which is way too often an attempt to prove one's self as superior to the object of the scorn. One must first be a leader of a flock who cares for them and tends them, leading them to green pastures and still waters. Cursing and berating the sheep will cause them to scatter and seek a kinder shepherd.

As I pointed out earlier, Paul loved those under his care. Only then, after they clearly understood that he truly and deeply loved them, did he offer correction.

 

[amigo de christo]

Just keep on doing what you doing my dear friend, point others to Christ Jesus and time has been shortened.

Correct and sound doctrine is crucial to salvation and growth in spiritual maturity. It comes as no surprise that God warns us many times in Scripture to be aware of false teaching. Christians need to be able to recognize false teachers in order to know when they are being led down a path that God did not intend!

What does the Bible say about False Prophets?

God speaks harshly against false prophets, occult practices, and other means of sorcery. God describes a false prophet as one who “presumes to speak in My name anything I have not commanded, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods” (Deuteronomy 18:20). In Jeremiah 14:14, God says these evildoers prophesy lies, offering “false visions, divinations, idolatries, and the delusions of their own minds.”


20 But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, is to be put to death.”

Ezekiel 13:9
9 My hand will be against the prophets who see false visions and utter lying divinations. They will not belong to the council of my people or be listed in the records of Israel, nor will they enter the land of Israel. Then you will know that I am the Sovereign LORD.

Jeremiah 14:14
14 Then the LORD said to me, “The prophets are prophesying lies in my name. I have not sent them or appointed them or spoken to them. They are prophesying to you false visions, divinations, idolatries and the delusions of their own minds.

Jeremiah 23:16
16 This is what the LORD Almighty says: “Do not listen to what the prophets are prophesying to you; they fill you with false hopes. They speak visions from their own minds, not from the mouth of the LORD.

Luke 6:26
26 Woe to you when everyone speaks well of you, for that is how their ancestors treated the false prophets.

Matthew 24:24
24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

Matthew 16:11-12
11 How is it you don’t understand that I was not talking to you about bread? But be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees.”
12 Then they understood that he was not telling them to guard against the yeast used in bread, but against the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees.

2 Timothy 4:3-4

3 For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
4 They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.

Acts 20:28-30
28 Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.

29 I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock.
30 Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them.

Keep on rebuking, correcting and reproving, in love, for we all need correction.
J.

Let him laugh my friend . Let us simply POINT TO CHRIST . our desire is good for even those who mock us .
THUS we point to the ONLY GOOD there is , JESUS CHRIST . march on my friend .
I have been more than laughed at by many . been called names , some of which i absolutely
will not repeat , as in four letter words etc .
But names like anti christ , son of perdition , follower of satan . etc . Yet even those who have called me such
STILL i desire only good for those and thus , JESUS AND HIM CRUCIFIED is who , by grace , i shall continue to point too .

 

[amigo de christo]

Jesus said to love your neighbor as yourself (citing the Old Testament). That is far more important than any supposed rebuking, correcting and reproving, which is way too often an attempt to prove one's self as superior to the object of the scorn. One must first be a leader of a flock who cares for them and tends them, leading them to green pastures and still waters. Cursing and berating the sheep will cause them to scatter and seek a kinder shepherd.

As I pointed out earlier, Paul loved those under his care. Only then, after they clearly understood that he truly and deeply loved them, did he offer correction.

perfect example of what i meant when i said many can quoate JESUS and say LOVE YOUR NIEGHBOR
but they often forget what came before that . YE MUST BELIEVE IN HIM .
SO how bout it jim . lets talk about those other religoins a bit . the ones that the social all inclusive gospel
says have no need to BELIEVE ON HIM . YALL FAIL big time . the social gospel is a lie from hell
and its a lie i wont buy . JESUS CHRIST and HIS EVERY WORD is the TRUTH i buy and WONT SELL .

 

[Johann]

Jesus said to love your neighbor as yourself (citing the Old Testament). That is far more important than any supposed rebuking, correcting and reproving, which is way too often an attempt to prove one's self as superior to the object of the scorn. One must first be a leader of a flock who cares for them and tends them, leading them to green pastures and still waters. Cursing and berating the sheep will cause them to scatter and seek a kinder shepherd.

As I pointed out earlier, Paul loved those under his care. Only then, after they clearly understood that he truly and deeply loved them, did he offer correction.

Problem is that this is not a church, this is social media--I don't know how you live and you don't know how I live--big difference.

 

[Jim B]

You say that a lot .
so let me bring you some words , words that you do not recognize as scripture .
YE shall not hate your nieghbor in your heart , you shall in any way rebuke , correct them and not allow sin upon them .
Many times i have brought you scrips , the problem is , YOU cannot recognize them . Someone aint been in their bible JIM .
LEARN IT WELL jim .

More poor English and faulty reasoning! (Of course, I expect that from you now.)

Quoting Leviticus out of context doesn't prove anything. Here is that verse IN CONTEXT: “You shall not hate in your heart anyone of your kin; you shall reprove your neighbor, or you will incur guilt yourself. You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against any of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord." Leviticus 19:17-18

It really shows your flawed thinking that you omit the very words that Jesus quoted!!! You take one phrase out of context and ignore the rest!!! Incredible!!!

You perpetually justify your hatred of your brothers and sisters in Christ under the guise of correcting them! Who made you the judge of those whom Christ has accepted and loves??? Clearly, you harbor hatred in your heart!!!

You should spend more time in the Bible to gain an understanding of what it clearly says! It speaks volumes that you omit "you shall love your neighbor as yourself" and take one phrase out of context to justify your condemnation of others.

 

[amigo de christo]

More poor English and faulty reasoning! (Of course, I expect that from you now.)

Quoting Leviticus out of context doesn't prove anything. Here is that verse IN CONTEXT: “You shall not hate in your heart anyone of your kin; you shall reprove your neighbor, or you will incur guilt yourself. You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against any of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord." Leviticus 19:17-18

It really shows your flawed thinking that you omit the very words that Jesus quoted!!! You take one phrase out of context and ignore the rest!!! Incredible!!!

You perpetually justify your hatred of your brothers and sisters in Christ under the guise of correcting them! Who made you the judge of those whom Christ has accepted and loves??? Clearly, you harbor hatred in your heart!!!

You should spend more time in the Bible to gain an understanding of what it clearly says! It speaks volumes that you omit "you shall love your neighbor as yourself" and take one phrase out of context to justify your condemnation of others.

Rather odd the original verse says nothing of the sort . IT implies we must CORRECT our neighbor and not allow sin upon THEM .
IT says THEM jim . Try again .

 

[amigo de christo]

More poor English and faulty reasoning! (Of course, I expect that from you now.)

Quoting Leviticus out of context doesn't prove anything. Here is that verse IN CONTEXT: “You shall not hate in your heart anyone of your kin; you shall reprove your neighbor, or you will incur guilt yourself. You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against any of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord." Leviticus 19:17-18

It really shows your flawed thinking that you omit the very words that Jesus quoted!!! You take one phrase out of context and ignore the rest!!! Incredible!!!

You perpetually justify your hatred of your brothers and sisters in Christ under the guise of correcting them! Who made you the judge of those whom Christ has accepted and loves??? Clearly, you harbor hatred in your heart!!!

You should spend more time in the Bible to gain an understanding of what it clearly says! It speaks volumes that you omit "you shall love your neighbor as yourself" and take one phrase out of context to justify your condemnation of others.

You mean i should spend more time in the bible trying to understand what the SOCIAL GOSPEL says it means .
I aint falling for it jim . i am only sorry you DID .

 

[Taken]

How are we to reckon ourselves as being dead to sin?​

OP ^

It is While we ARE dead in our sins (which means NOT “with God” and NOT “in Christ”)
Is When we begin Hearing, Learning ABOUT the Lord God.

Two things begin happening while Hearing the Word of God.
1) God gives that person measures of Faith.
2) The person begins exercising his FREEWILL to believe, doubt, wonder, ponder, vacillate to believe what he has Heard.

IF… the person continues Hearing the Word of God, the Process Continues.

IF…the Person IS believing; God is “WITH” that person.
IF…the Person IS rejecting believing Gods Word…God IS NOT “WITH” that Person.

That ^ scenario we can find repeatedly occurred throughout the OT….and the negative and positive consequences when men were “WITH and “WITHOUT” God.

The Same Process AND Scenario continues from the past 6,000 years, To THIS Day, among Many men, Hebrews, Tribes, Jews.

** 2,000 years ago, A NEW and BETTER Testament of Gods Word was Revealed and Offered TO ALL men; Hebrews, Tribes, Jews and Gentiles.
(Heb 7:22)

Scenario….Same
Process…..Same
NEW ………ONE of OR TWO Things;
1) a persons Belief…(on the Day his Body physically Dies…)
That: JESUS lived, JESUS Died, God Raised JESUS up from bodily Death, JESUS resumed Bodily Living.

* That mans Consequence?
God IS With that man.
That man is called IN Gods Word…
(AKA…IN JESUS, who IS the Word of God).
On the day of his physical Bodily Death;
God Shall Save that mans soul, AFTER that mans Physical Bodily Death.
That Saved soul shall depart its Dead body.
The dead body rot return to Dust.
After Christs millennial reign;
God Shall Raise that mans Body Up … From it’s earthen Grave … To a New Earth….IN a Glorified body … and return it’s Saved soul To that Glorified body.
(1 Thes. 4:14)

2) A Person making / vowing/ proclaiming/ testifying….CONFESSING with his OWN WORD, ( from the THOUGHT and BELIEF in his Heart, )
That: Jesus IS the Christ, The Son of the Living God.

That mans Consequence?
That moment, that man IS giving His body unto Death…Dead (crucified WITH JESUS)…
He…at that moment…
* Receives Salvation (Saving) Of His Soul.
* Receives a new Heart ( heart Circumcision)…
* Receives The Seed of God in his new heart.
(Born Again)
* Receives Holy Spirit of Truth IN his new heart. (HS Baptism)
* Receives Gods Power (Christ) WITH him Forever and the Power of God (Christ) IN his new born again spirit, TO the day he IS risen up in his new body, BY the Lord (JESUS), from the Earth, to the Clouds, above the face of the Earth, (nothing new, Same as Faithful Noah was raised UP above the Earth, during Gods First Great Tribulation sent down from Heaven to the Earth)..
They are called IN Christ.
(1 Thes. 4: 16,17)
They shall return to Earth (same as did Noah).
They shall return to Earth With Christ (Power) Jesus (King) Forever in His likeness, and seeing Him as He IS….Spirit.
Rev. 19: 11-17.

Dead to Sin applies to a man Converted IN Christ, Baptized With the Holy Spirit , Who By the Power (Christ) of God IN the man, and Gods Seed (Christ) IN That man can NEVER AGAIN “NOT BELIEVE” (SIN) Against The Lord God.


Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Episkopos]

A writing from 2001:

When a man comes to you in his own name, you except him into your house. He comes to you with many words and all understanding of all things. He comes to you with a doctrine disguised as The Truth and you praise him. His words are sweet to your lips and music to your ears. He stays up all hours of the night devising ways of proving his doctrine.

When a man comes to you in The Lord's Name His words are but folly to you. Of an alien tongue he brings you The Truth, but like the others before him, you know him not, For as it is written:

You shall indeed hear but never understand,
and you shall indeed see but not perceive.
For this people's heart has grown dull, and
their eyes are heavy of hearing and their eyes
they have closed, lest they should perceive
with their eyes, and hear with their ears,
and understand with their heart, and turn for
Me to heal them.

We must be able to consider the crows and pawns in every situation...

 

[Jim B]

perfect example of what i meant when i said many can quoate JESUS and say LOVE YOUR NIEGHBOR
but they often forget what came before that . YE MUST BELIEVE IN HIM .
SO how bout it jim . lets talk about those other religoins a bit . the ones that the social all inclusive gospel
says have no need to BELIEVE ON HIM . YALL FAIL big time . the social gospel is a lie from hell
and its a lie i wont buy . JESUS CHRIST and HIS EVERY WORD is the TRUTH i buy and WONT SELL .

Oh, so now you're changing the subject! I'm not surprised!!!

What you derogatorily call "the social all inclusive gospel" is totally contrary to Jesus' words: " “Come to me, ALL you who are weary and are carrying heavy burdens, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.” Matthew 11:28-30

You want to exclude all those that don't meet your false standard of holiness -- which is actually pseudo-holiness that makes you look good and everyone else (whom God loves) evil.

Which of those Christians that you so often criticize have no need to believe in Christ??? The so-called "social gospel" that you cite over and over is meaningless! Again (and again and again ... and again), JESUS SAID TO LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF!!! You are clearly incapable of doing that!!! You see your neighbor as someone different than yourself!!! You see her/him as evil, whereas GOD LOVES THEM!!!

And writing in your usual sloppy English: "JESUS CHRIST and HIS EVERY WORD is the TRUTH i buy and WONT SELL" is self-delusion. If you actually followed Jesus every word, you would love your neighbor, not hate them, treating them with scorn and derision.

 

[Jim B]

Rather odd the original verse says nothing of the sort . IT implies we must CORRECT our neighbor and not allow sin upon THEM .
IT says THEM jim . Try again .

IN CONTEXT AMIGO!!! LEVITICUS 19:17-18, “You shall not hate in your heart anyone of your kin; you shall reprove your neighbor, or you will incur guilt yourself. You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against any of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord."

See, you take one phrase out of context to justify your self righteousness, but that is not what Scripture says! You are deceived and hateful!!!

 

[Jim B]

You mean i should spend more time in the bible trying to understand what the SOCIAL GOSPEL says it means .
I aint falling for it jim . i am only sorry you DID .

Unlike yourself, I believe what the Bible says. I also believe what the Holy Spirit leads me to believe.

1 Corinthians 13:1-13, "If I speak in the tongues of humans and of angels but do not have love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers and understand all mysteries and all knowledge and if I have all faith so as to remove mountains but do not have love, I am nothing.If I give away all my possessions and if I hand over my body so that I may boast but do not have love, I gain nothing.

Love is patient; love is kind; love is not envious or boastful or arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable; it keeps no record of wrongs; it does not rejoice in wrongdoing but rejoices in the truth. It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

Love never ends. But as for prophecies, they will come to an end; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will come to an end. For we know only in part, and we prophesy only in part, but when the complete comes, the partial will come to an end. When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became an adult, I put an end to childish ways. For now we see only a reflection, as in a mirror, but then we will see face to face. Now I know only in part; then I will know fully, even as I have been fully known. And now faith, hope, and love remain, these three, and the greatest of these is love."

 

[Johann]

Unlike yourself, I believe what the Bible says. I also believe what the Holy Spirit leads me to believe.

1 Corinthians 13:1-13, "If I speak in the tongues of humans and of angels but do not have love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers and understand all mysteries and all knowledge and if I have all faith so as to remove mountains but do not have love, I am nothing.If I give away all my possessions and if I hand over my body so that I may boast but do not have love, I gain nothing.

Love is patient; love is kind; love is not envious or boastful or arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable; it keeps no record of wrongs; it does not rejoice in wrongdoing but rejoices in the truth. It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

Love never ends. But as for prophecies, they will come to an end; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will come to an end. For we know only in part, and we prophesy only in part, but when the complete comes, the partial will come to an end. When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became an adult, I put an end to childish ways. For now we see only a reflection, as in a mirror, but then we will see face to face. Now I know only in part; then I will know fully, even as I have been fully known. And now faith, hope, and love remain, these three, and the greatest of these is love."

Practice what you preach
Later
J.

 

[Jim B]

Rather odd the original verse says nothing of the sort . IT implies we must CORRECT our neighbor and not allow sin upon THEM .
IT says THEM jim . Try again .

It's obvious that you don't understand that chapters and verses are later additions to Scripture! That is really unfortunate, as it allows people to take words, phrases, and sentences out of context to justify whatever unScriptural doctrine that occurs in their minds. It is more than telling that in the very place that it clearly says to love your neighbor as yourself (which Jesus repeated in the New Testament) you omit it! Show me anywhere that Jesus said to "reprove your neighbor". (HINT: He neverU said it!)

Leviticus 19:17-18, “You shall not hate in your heart anyone of your kin; you shall reprove your neighbor, or you will incur guilt yourself. You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against any of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord.

 

[Jim B]

Practice what you preach
Later
J.

The same to you!

 

[Enoch111]

Jesus said to love your neighbor as yourself (citing the Old Testament). That is far more important than any supposed rebuking, correcting and reproving, which is way too often an attempt to prove one's self as superior to the object of the scorn.

Are you not aware that rebuking, correcting, and reproving are indeed expressions of love? Jesus said : AS MANY AS I LOVE I REBUKE AND CHASTEN. BE ZEALOUS THEREFORE AND REPENT.

 

[Jim B]

Are you not aware that rebuking, correcting, and reproving are indeed expressions of love? Jesus said : AS MANY AS I LOVE I REBUKE AND CHASTEN. BE ZEALOUS THEREFORE AND REPENT.

Jesus spent a lot of time debating with, arguing with, and correcting the prideful scribes and Pharisees. Matthew 23:1-4, "Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples, “The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses’s seat; therefore, do whatever they teach you and follow it, but do not do as they do, for they do not practice what they teach. They tie up heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on the shoulders of others, but they themselves are unwilling to lift a finger to move them." I have never read any post from "amigo de christo" that does anything but criticize and rebuke others, including Christians and their churches.

I am aware that rebuking, correcting, and reproving are indeed expressions of love, but only if they are done with love! Read my post #2214.

Here is the complete verse that "amigo" used to justify his unceasing criticism of others: "Leviticus 19:17-18, “You shall not hate in your heart anyone of your kin; you shall reprove your neighbor, or you will incur guilt yourself. You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against any of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord."

The red, underlined part is the part that Jesus quoted in the New Testament. Don't you find it odd that He didn't quote the part about reproving your neighbor?

As I have said over and over -- and will continue to do so -- that rebuking others (a euphemism for tearing them to pieces) is NOT Christian love! It is self-glorification! "I AM RIGHT! i AM YOUR JUDGE! i CONDEMN YOUR BEHAVIOR! REPENT, EVIL PEOPLE! etc." Which of these phrases are correcting someone in love?

 

[Johann]

Jesus spent a lot of time debating with, arguing with, and correcting the prideful scribes and Pharisees. Matthew 23:1-4, "Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples, “The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses’s seat; therefore, do whatever they teach you and follow it, but do not do as they do, for they do not practice what they teach. They tie up heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on the shoulders of others, but they themselves are unwilling to lift a finger to move them." I have never read any post from "amigo de christo" that does anything but criticize and rebuke others, including Christians and their churches.

I am aware that rebuking, correcting, and reproving are indeed expressions of love, but only if they are done with love! Read my post #2214.

Here is the complete verse that "amigo" used to justify his unceasing criticism of others: "Leviticus 19:17-18, “You shall not hate in your heart anyone of your kin; you shall reprove your neighbor, or you will incur guilt yourself. You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against any of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord."

The red, underlined part is the part that Jesus quoted in the New Testament. Don't you find it odd that He didn't quote the part about reproving your neighbor?

As I have said over and over -- and will continue to do so -- that rebuking others (a euphemism for tearing them to pieces) is NOT Christian love! It is self-glorification! "I AM RIGHT! i AM YOUR JUDGE! i CONDEMN YOUR BEHAVIOR! REPENT, EVIL PEOPLE! etc." Which of these phrases are correcting someone in love?

Maybe ol' Epi won you over to his camp--I don't see you rebuking, reproving and correcting him, in love, of course.

 

[Jim B]

Are you not aware that rebuking, correcting, and reproving are indeed expressions of love? Jesus said : AS MANY AS I LOVE I REBUKE AND CHASTEN. BE ZEALOUS THEREFORE AND REPENT.

Quoting a single verse from Revelation (out of context), proves nothing.

Revelation 3:14-22, "
“And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the origin of God’s creation:

“I know your works; you are neither cold nor hot. I wish that you were either cold or hot. So, because you are lukewarm and neither cold nor hot, I am about to spit you out of my mouth. For you say, ‘I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing.’ You do not realize that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked. Therefore I advise you to buy from me gold refined by fire so that you may be rich, and white robes to clothe yourself and to keep the shame of your nakedness from being seen, and salve to anoint your eyes so that you may see. I reprove and discipline those whom I love. Be earnest, therefore, and repent. Listen! I am standing at the door, knocking; if you hear my voice and open the door, I will come in and eat with you, and you with me. To the one who conquers I will give a place with me on my throne, just as I myself conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne. Let anyone who has an ear listen to what the Spirit is saying to the churches.”

Are you seriously applying a small selection of this warning to the Laodiceans to apply to the body of Christ in general? That is the epitome of eisegesis!

Here is far better verses: Matthew 11:28-29, " “Come to me, all you who are weary and are carrying heavy burdens, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls."

Where is the rebuke in that? Where is the self-righteousness and the despising of others that you and "amigo" (a misnomer if there ever was one!) believe???

 

[Jim B]

Maybe ol' Epi won you over to his camp--I don't see you rebuking, reproving and correcting him, in love, of course.

I have "Epi" on permanent "ignore" status.