How are we to reckon ourselves as being dead to sin?

[Episkopos]

Hello to all. I think it important to understand the context of everything we read about in the bible. It's too easy to misunderstand and jump to false conclusions based on an unbalanced and unlearned assumption, unless we look as deeply as possible into how it fits into the ways of God.

On this thread, I would like to look at how we are to reckon ourselves to be dead to sin....using the OT, and NT...and hopefully with some testimonials.

Any post that is not applicable to the subject matter I will respond with a "Stay on Topic" comment.

Now in Romans 6:11 we read...

" Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord."

Is this a kind of magic formula that one must accept as being life-giving in itself? As in...fake it till you make it?

I think the last thing that God wants is for people to accept the bible anecdotally....religiously.... There is no need or desire for that.

We need to go to the OT to see where the pattern of God's ways based on reckoning can be consulted for greater clarity in the present circumstance. With the next verse we see a call to spiritual militancy.

Joel 3:10 "Beat your plowshares into swords and your pruninghooks into spears: let the weak say, I am strong."

James continues with this theme...

James 1:9 Let the brother of low degree rejoice in that he is exalted:
10 But the rich, in that he is made low: because as the flower of the grass he shall pass away.

V. 10 is very telling and apropos for we who live in the rich Western countries. Especially seeing that sound doctrine is seen by many as being so hostile (to the flesh).


We see with this, the "make the way straight in the desert for our God" from Is. 40.....filling in the valleys and making the mountains low. I would say that the major problem we have is the exaltation of the flesh rather than the rejoicing at being made low. It is the council of James in reverse for many of us.

So we, in our estimation, need to see our default setting as considering sin, and the lifestyle associated with it, as being dead to us. Does that mean we can claim to be without sin by a mere reckoning? We can only reckon with our mind. Our reckoning helps to line up our way of thinking with the direction we are hoping to go in. Only God can rescue us from the power of the flesh.

We can indeed ALWAYS triumph over the flesh..but that takes the power of the cross and walking in the Spirit. Reckoning ourselves to be dead to sin is akin to carrying our own cross...not being crucified on the cross of Christ. That is at a whole other level and at a depth that very few will be able to comprehend let alone experience.

 

[Episkopos]

What creates so many problems in the church is the depth at which things are received. Much of the modern gospel is about getting as many people in the pews as possible...watering down the message, and the truth, sufficiently, to attract people who are NOT willing to let go of their lives. It's about quantity rather than quality. It's about spreading too little truth over too much iniquity.

So then for these, "reckoning" will be a way to see oneself as already dead in a kind of religious presumption....as a means of actually thinking they are dead to sin...even in spite of all the sin that continues in their lives. IOW..a belief system that is adopted that denies reality and the evidence. Why? It's easy, requires no seeking of the living God, and makes for a tailor-made adaptation to sin by one's own power ...to a supposition that this is the very pinnacle of what can be accomplished through the gospel. Basically, a gospel that is tailored to the rich and spoiled Western self-interested ones who have an interest beyond the temporal privileges...instead looking to keep those same privileges into eternity. God is mocked in the world because of such aberrations. Did Jesus not say that those who tried to save their lives would lose them?

God's ways in no way point to a make-believe scheme..or what the bible calls "fables". Again, this neither needed nor desired.

We have to see Romans 6...and the reckoning found therein, as a stepping stone rather than an arrival point. We have to move on into Romans 7 to see the limitations inherent with our own reckoning...cry out to God for His grace and strength...and then move on into Romans 8 and a victory that is beyond our own reckoning.

 

[GTW27]

Blessings. An Analogy. Out back behind my house, there is a grave. And in that grave, buried 6 feet down, is a man named Richard. And Richard, was a man that was a slave to sin. Occasionally, Richard tries to come back into the house but each time he looks up and sees the house, he realizes that this house is no longer his, but is The Lord's, and a man named Rich lives there.

 

[Episkopos]

Blessings. An Analogy. Out back behind my house, there is a grave. And in that grave, buried 6 feet down, is a man named Richard. And Richard, was a man that was a slave to sin. Occasionally, Richard tries to come back into the house but each time he looks up and sees the house, he realizes that this house is no longer his, but is The Lord's, and a man named Rich lives there.

In your story...is Richard imagining he is 6 feet under by a process of reckoning? Or...is he crucified to the point where he is INCAPABLE of sin...because he is dead (like it sounds in your story).

Here we see the difference...and the controversy...between a Romans 6 reckoning, and a testimony to the power of the cross..with Gal. 2:20.

"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son ..."

I think many will miss the depth of Paul's statement here. The superficiality inherent in so much of modern teaching tilts the understanding away from a deeper experience of the cross...towards a higher estimation of an initial sample of grace as being all there is.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Only God can rescue us from the power of the flesh.

“…put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfill the lusts thereof.” (Romans 13:14)

 

[Episkopos]

“…put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfill the lusts thereof.” (Romans 13:14)

The trick is to get those who believe in things ABOUT Jesus to put Him on for real ...in Spirit and truth. The distance between a theological assessment of the cross and an experience of the power of the cross...is a universe away. It is the distance between light and darkness...between life and death.

And that being the case, no one wants to admit that they have less than what their neighbours might have...so it's really a reaction inbred into the middle-class, to claim what others have for fear of appearing weak and poor.....or outclassed. Truly an ego reaction....but not an honest one.

And yet the rich are to rejoice in their poverty.....

 

[Michiah-Imla]

The trick is to get those who believe in things ABOUT Jesus to put Him on for real ..

That’s a fair and true statement.

 

[ChristisGod]

“…put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfill the lusts thereof.” (Romans 13:14)

Notice the Bible below does not say anything bout consider or reckon but in facts says we died. And the fact we have been raised, not will be or consider yourself raised. We have actually died and have been raised. Scripture interprets scripture. Its why no verse stands in isolation from the rest. Thats where false teaching gets its foot in the door.

We died
Colossians 3
Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. 2 Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. 3 For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God.

We died
Romans 6:2- Certainly not! How can we who died to sin live in it any longer?

We were crucified- past
Galatians 2:20-I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

We all died not will die
2 Corinthians 5:14- For Christ's love compels us, because we are convinced that One died for all, therefore all died.

 

[Episkopos]

Notice the Bible below does not say anything bout consider or reckon but in facts says we died.

Who's the we??? A religious assessment, or a pretend one will place the "i" ...the ego...into the narrative in a favourable light. But Paul is speaking to people he knew...who were not posturing, or imagining themselves to be something they were not.

Try humility...assuming nothing...unless to see yourself in need of God like the Publican who was justified by God. There are too many Pharisees doing the naming and claiming to be believed.

And the fact we have been raised, not will be or consider yourself raised. We have actually died and have been raised. Scripture interprets scripture.

Those who have died and are raised again in Christ can read the bible with honesty as an explanation of their situation. But a pretender, an interloper, shouldn't assume that Paul is speaking to everyone who will ever read the bible.

Its why no verse stands in isolation from the rest. Thats where false teaching gets its foot in the door.

false teaching gets in where it is assumed that we can place ourselves in the text in a way that is already pleasing to us...without having to be dealt with and elevated into a walk in Christ. There are so many pretenders based on this religious technique...that a massive sorting will have to take place on judgment day.

Colossians 3
Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. 2 Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. 3 For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God.

And this is true of those whom Paul was addressing 2,000 years ago. It can be ours too, but we have to go through all the transformative steps that they did. Judge nothing before the time.

It's better to see the NT as a testimony rather than a religious manifesto that all and sundry can claim to be theirs.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

why do people want to take a small saying in the word of God and try to make a doctrine out of it?

romans 6: 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

1st. The word reckon is in the greek logizomai, it means to count, to consider to credit to bear in mind.

2nd. Bear in or consider what? We are DEAD indeed to sin.

3rd. In reflection. He said CHrist died to sin once, This is the cross. He allowed sin to take him. But he will never be taken again.

this is what he is telling us to do. As Christ died to sin, so we too should consider ourselves dead to sin (Sin has no power over us, it can not kill us any more (spiritually) And there is no need to sin to take care of our own needs, because our greatest need is met, It is met in full.

For this reason. This "death to sin" through Christ EMPOWERS us to live in Christ. To not let sin reign in our mortal bodies.

we don't need to go the OT, We do not need to make up some grand scheme and doctrine out of these verses. Just take the words for what they mean and what they say. take the whole of the conversation, the imperitive command paul gave, and apply it to you rlife.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

no verse stands in isolation from the rest. Thats where false teaching gets its foot in the door.

Amen!

And we who are dead and raised are advised:

“…you stand by faith. Do not be high-minded, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, fear lest He also may not spare you either!” (Romans 11:20-21)

 

[ChristisGod]

Who's the we??? A religious assessment, or a pretend one will place the "i" ...the ego...into the narrative in a favourable light. But Paul is speaking to people he knew...who were not posturing, or imagining themselves to be something they were not.

Try humility...assuming nothing...unless to see yourself in need of God like the Publican who was justified by God. There are too many Pharisees doing the naming and claiming to be believed.



Those who have died and are raised again in Christ can read the bible with honesty as an explanation of their situation. But a pretender, an interloper, shouldn't assume that Paul is speaking to everyone who will ever read the bible.


false teaching gets in where it is assumed that we can place ourselves in the text in a way that is already pleasing to us...without having to be dealt with and elevated into a walk in Christ. There are so many pretenders based on this religious technique...that a massive sorting will have to take place on judgment day.

And this is true of those whom Paul was addressing 2,000 years ago. It can be ours too, but we have to go through all the transformative steps that they did. Judge nothing before the time.

It's better to see the NT as a testimony rather than a religious manifesto that all and sundry can claim to be theirs.

There are no transforming steps- you make them up.

The fact is I provided 3 passages that declare believers have had the following happen with NO CONDITIONS attached.

1- you have died- past tense
2-you have been raised- past tense
3- we have been crucified with Christ- past tense

None of the above have any conditions but are biblical truths/facts for all believers. One either believers them to be true or denies Gods promises. Its a matter of faith.

Should I believe you or Paul who wrote Gods inspired word ?

I will go with Paul 24/7 over your subjective " opinions ".

hope this helps !!!

 

[Michiah-Imla]

why do people want to take a small saying in the word of God and try to make a doctrine out of it?

Like these samples?

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” (John 3:16)

“And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.” (John 10:28)

 

[ChristisGod]

why do people want to take a small saying in the word of God and try to make a doctrine out of it?

romans 6: 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

1st. The word reckon is in the greek logizomai, it means to count, to consider to credit to bear in mind.

2nd. Bear in or consider what? We are DEAD indeed to sin.

3rd. In reflection. He said CHrist died to sin once, This is the cross. He allowed sin to take him. But he will never be taken again.

this is what he is telling us to do. As Christ died to sin, so we too should consider ourselves dead to sin (Sin has no power over us, it can not kill us any more (spiritually) And there is no need to sin to take care of our own needs, because our greatest need is met, It is met in full.

For this reason. This "death to sin" through Christ EMPOWERS us to live in Christ. To not let sin reign in our mortal bodies.

we don;t need to go the OT, We do not need to make up some grad scheme and doctrine out of these verses. Just take the words for what they mean and what they say. take the whole of the conversation, the imperitive command paul gave, and apply it to you rlife.

Amen preach it !

 

[ChristisGod]

Like these samples?

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” (John 3:16)

“And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.” (John 10:28)

Amen !

 

[Michiah-Imla]

we don;t need to go the OT

“For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.” (Romans 15:4)

 

[Episkopos]

Not everyone who owns a musical instrument knows how to play it. We can be owners and not players. Not everyone who owns a bible understands the message within it.

We are not to be hearers of the word only...but doers of the word.
How does reckoning work with that? Well. we can use the word "reckon" to mean that we reckon ourselves to have understood the bible.

The same goes for someone who buys an instrument reckoning he/she is already a musician. Aren't people who do that looking to bring shame on themselves? And the more serious that reckoning, the deeper the shame?

So even with a word like "reckoning"...which is used as a "Trojan horse" by many to get themselves into the narrative...there must be a sober realization that we can't just pretend to be like Paul...and to have everything he had.

We see that same "Trojan horse" strategy with the words "born again". People will consider themselves to be born again...so they assume all the other attributres of spiritual progression from there...like they are one day going to "grow into holiness" for following that same course of assumptions...and even one day be glorified!

Or not.

 

[ChristisGod]

Not everyone who owns a musical instrument knows how to play it. We can be owners and not players. Not everyone who owns a bible understands the message within it.

We are not to be hearers of the word only...but doers of the word.
How does reckoning work with that? Well. we can use the word "reckon" to mean that we reckon ourselves to have understood the bible.

The same goes for someone who buys an instrument reckoning he/she is already a musician. Aren't people who do that looking to bring shame on themselves? And the more serious that reckoning, the deeper the shame?

So even with a word like "reckoning"...which is used as a "Trojan horse" by many to get themselves into the narrative...there must be a sober realization that we can't just pretend to be like Paul...and to have everything he had.

We see that same "Trojan horse" strategy with the words "born again". People will consider themselves to be born again...so they assume all the other attributres of spiritual progression from there...like they are one day going to "grow into holiness" for following that same course of assumptions...and even one day be glorified!

Or not.

God is not a "musical " instrument. God is a Person who is relational.

 

[ChristisGod]

“For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.” (Romans 15:4)

There are definitely lessons we can learn from the OT but we are no longer under it as Paul makes clear in Galatians and also from the book of Hebrews. The New Covenant is new because it supersedes the Old Covenant.

 

[Zachariah]

To be dead to the flesh, ego, or to the physicle aspects of our reality. I will try to express my understanding in a simple matter.

When we recieve a gift on our birthday from somone we love, only to find out it wasn't what we wanted.

This is to hold value in the physicle aspect, or to hold life in the gift itself.

When we recieve a gift on our birthday from somone we love, its not what we wanted, but we recieve it as love and understand that it was the thought that counts.

This is to hold no value of life in the physicle aspect or the gift itself, but to cherish the unseen (God) nature that came with it.

We treat our being in the same respect, that we become living sacrifices. The unseet aspect within (God) becomes of value, and our body is what we give. Or our time or whatever seen aspect we have to offer.

A more complicated way of seeing is. Striking a balance with feminine (water, death and body) and masculine (wind, life and spirit). When you strike this balance, you will know indefinitely. This is enlightenment.