No More Death

[rwb]

They were NOT ONE HOLY church.
Not UNTIL the blood of Christ was shed, which is the ONLY WAY, that sin can be fully forgiven AND REMOVED.
There isn't one OT Saint of the OC that had the Gift of God's Holy Spirit permanently, UNTIL "after" the day of His resurrection and the days of Pentecost.

Most all of them who were of faith died, and were still waiting for "the Promise to come", and were shown to be in the "book of God's Remembrance"- Malachi 3:16.

They are seen in Rev. 6:9-12 as being under the altar, whereby "after Christ's resurrection", they each and all received "white robes", aka the permanent indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
Today, their names now have been written in the Lamb's book of Life, which is He Himself.
To be IN Jesus, is to be IN the KoG.

I believe we are saying the same thing, but in different ways.

Do you recall what I said in post #574?
Here it is again:
"Have you not understood that when God speaks, He speaks in the past, in the present, in the future and in eternity, ALL AT THE SAME TIME.
Our little "squirrel cage" of a brain cannot handle such thinking!! Why do you think that there are so many different interpretations of the book of Revelation???"

We are one body in Christ from the foundation of the world. The names of all who shall be delivered through Christ have been written in the Book of life from the foundation of the world. The blood of Christ was shed according to promise through Christ, the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. All who are recorded in the Book of life are the spiritual Kingdom of God in heaven, represented as the Church on this earth.

Exodus 32:32 (KJV) Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin—; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written.

Philippians 4:3 (KJV) And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life.

Revelation 13:8 (KJV) And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Daniel 12:1 (KJV) And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

The Old Covenant saints who lived and died before Pentecost went to their graves via promise, believing the Messiah would come to save them. They waited in the grave patiently after death in the bosom of Abraham. (see the parable of Lazarus and the rich man) The place of the faithful dead (lower parts of the earth) where Christ descended before He ascended to heaven. (Eph 4:8-10) That's why Rev 6 shows them as souls under the altar. In faith they believed the Messiah would come, but until He physically came to defeat sin and death no man could ascend to heaven. The next time they are shown is Rev 7 as 144,000 sealed (by the Holy Spirit; with spiritual life) from all the tribes of the children of Israel. They are included with the innumerable multitude who have come out of great tribulation and been washed by the blood of the Lamb. They are now spiritually alive in heaven with the Lord because their names were written in the book of life from the foundation of the world.

 

[Earburner]

We are one body in Christ from the foundation of the world. The names of all who shall be delivered through Christ have been written in the Book of life from the foundation of the world. The blood of Christ was shed according to promise through Christ, the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. All who are recorded in the Book of life are the spiritual Kingdom of God in heaven, represented as the Church on this earth.

Yes, the promise was given before the foundation of the world. The very act of Christ shedding His blood, is the fulfillment of that promise.
Promises made WITHOUT MANIFESTATION are useless.

Heb. 9:22 "Without the shedding of blood [literally] there is no remission".


So, in the old adage: "Don't get the cart before the horse".

 

[rwb]

Yes, the promise was given before the foundation of the world. The very act of Christ shedding His blood, is the fulfillment of that promise.
Promises made WITHOUT MANIFESTATION are useless.

Heb. 9:22 "Without the shedding of blood [literally] there is no remission".


So, in the old adage: "Don't get the cart before the horse".

Useless? In no way dear friend! All of the promises of God in Christ are YES and AMEN! The blood of Christ was as shed from the foundation of the world, which is why Scripture speaks of Him as the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

2 Corinthians 1:20 (KJV) For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

Yes, Christ had to literally come just as was foreordained in heaven before creation. But the Word (Christ) of promise being ordained in heaven before creation, being established there, the Word of promise by God cannot be broken. It is according to promise ordained in heaven from the foundation of the world that people of faith have been entering into the spiritual Kingdom of God in heaven, and after His cross and resurrection, spiritually ascended to heaven with Christ.

It's not putting the cart before the horse! It is believing the promises of God ordained in heaven that men/women of faith would be saved by the blood of the Lamb from the foundation of the world. He has always been the only way for salvation to whosoever believes from the days of Adam & Eve, until the last Gentile to be saved enters the spiritual Kingdom of God according to grace through faith. One Christ, one faith, one body of believers; the one true Church.

 

[Truth7t7]

Why does it have to be individuals? The two witnesses are symbolically represented as two candlesticks and two olive trees. Elsewhere in the book of Revelation candlesticks represent churches. So, why do they represent individuals here?

Scripture below clearly teaches the (Two Witnesses) will have "Literal" bodies that die, and they will lay in a "Literal" steet where Jesus was crucified "Jerusalem"

Scripture clearly teaches a "Literal" world is watching in celebration of their deaths, exchanging "Literal" gifts, and they will be raised upon "Literal" feet, as a "Literal" world watches in fear

The (Two Witnesses) will bring "Literal" plagues upon this "Literal" world, a remake of Moses/Aaron against the Pharaoh of Egypt

To think you remove the facts of scripture below, with false claims it represents the church symbolically, "Sad"!

Question is, will you continue to teach false reformed preterist eschatology, in light of God's words of truth before your eyes below?

Jesus Is The Lord

Revelation 11:3-12KJV
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

 

[Truth7t7]

Why does it have to be individuals? The two witnesses are symbolically represented as two candlesticks and two olive trees. Elsewhere in the book of Revelation candlesticks represent churches. So, why do they represent individuals here? In Romans 11 olive trees represent people groups with the cultivated olive tree representing Israel (the Israel of God) and the wild olive tree representing the Gentiles. So, in my view, the two witnesses represent believing Israelites/Jews and believing Gentiles together as one, which is the church.

God's Divine Protection Of The Church During The Tribulation​

The Two Witnesses Will Dominate The Entire Tribulation, Something Many Disregard As Non-Existent

Try Reading Exodus And The Plagues Upon Pharaoh And Egypt, It's Going To Be A Complete Replay

God's Divine Protection, "Open Your Ears"

(Revelation) 13:9-10KJV
9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

God's Divine Protection During The Final Hour Of Earth's Temptation, Just Like The Passover In Egypt, "Open Your Ears"

Isaiah 26:20-21KJV
20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
21 For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

The Great Trib Will Be Upon The Antichrist And Wicked, The Church Is Protected, Dont Be Deceived

There's Going To Be An End Times Persecution, The Beast And His Kingdom Are The Target Of God's Empowered (Two Witnesses)

The Great Tribulation Will Come Upon The Wicked World, While The (Sealed Church) Is Protected

The (Sealed Church) will be present on earth and protected, when wicked men are tormented 5 months, desiring to die as death flees

All saved believers are (Sealed) by God, Eph 1:13, 4:30

Ephesians 1:13KJV
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 4:30KJV
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

It Was Commanded, Only Those Without God's Seal Will Be Tormented, The Sealed Church Is Protected

Revelation 9:3-6KJV
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

Plagues upon The Beast and his Kingdom, a remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt

Revelation 11:3-6
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

Plagues upon The Beast and his Kingdom, a remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt

Revelation 11:3-6
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

Revelation 16:1-11KJV
1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.
3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.
5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.
6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.
7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments.
8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.
9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.
10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.

 

[Earburner]

Useless? In no way dear friend! All of the promises of God in Christ are YES and AMEN! The blood of Christ was as shed from the foundation of the world, which is why Scripture speaks of Him as the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

2 Corinthians 1:20 (KJV) For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

Yes, Christ had to literally come just as was foreordained in heaven before creation. But the Word (Christ) of promise being ordained in heaven before creation, being established there, the Word of promise by God cannot be broken. It is according to promise ordained in heaven from the foundation of the world that people of faith have been entering into the spiritual Kingdom of God in heaven, and after His cross and resurrection, spiritually ascended to heaven with Christ.

It's not putting the cart before the horse! It is believing the promises of God ordained in heaven that men/women of faith would be saved by the blood of the Lamb from the foundation of the world. He has always been the only way for salvation to whosoever believes from the days of Adam & Eve, until the last Gentile to be saved enters the spiritual Kingdom of God according to grace through faith. One Christ, one faith, one body of believers; the one true Church.

And my point is, if God had waited another 2,024 years to send Jesus, you and I would not be having this conversation, and we would not be "rejoicing over" the manifestation of His sacrificial death, and the permanent Gift of His Holy Spirit, hoping for immortality.
People would still be going to their eternal death without any hope.
1 John 5:12-13.

A "promise", without the manifestation, is NOTHING!

We are one body in Christ from the foundation of the world. The names of all who shall be delivered through Christ have been written in the Book of life from the foundation of the world.

Only by God's foreknowledge, in His Eternity, would that be known. No earthly person knows of it UNTIL they are converted to Christ, by being born again of His Holy Spirit.

Upto the first manifestation of Christ in the flesh, the knowledge of God's plan of His salvation was altogether kept secret (hidden) from the world. Rom. 16:25.
It is the mystery of His Grace, brought to us by His "anointed one", Jesus, "the Son of God", who also is "the son of man".
John 3:16.

 

[Earburner]

God's Divine Protection Of The Church During The Tribulation​

The Two Witnesses Will Dominate The Entire Tribulation, Something Many Disregard As Non-Existent

Try Reading Exodus And The Plagues Upon Pharaoh And Egypt, It's Going To Be A Complete Replay

God's Divine Protection, "Open Your Ears"

(Revelation) 13:9-10KJV
9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

God's Divine Protection During The Final Hour Of Earth's Temptation, Just Like The Passover In Egypt, "Open Your Ears"

Isaiah 26:20-21KJV
20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
21 For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

The Great Trib Will Be Upon The Antichrist And Wicked, The Church Is Protected, Dont Be Deceived

There's Going To Be An End Times Persecution, The Beast And His Kingdom Are The Target Of God's Empowered (Two Witnesses)

The Great Tribulation Will Come Upon The Wicked World, While The (Sealed Church) Is Protected

The (Sealed Church) will be present on earth and protected, when wicked men are tormented 5 months, desiring to die as death flees

All saved believers are (Sealed) by God, Eph 1:13, 4:30

Ephesians 1:13KJV
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 4:30KJV
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

It Was Commanded, Only Those Without God's Seal Will Be Tormented, The Sealed Church Is Protected

Revelation 9:3-6KJV
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

Plagues upon The Beast and his Kingdom, a remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt

Revelation 11:3-6
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

Plagues upon The Beast and his Kingdom, a remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt

Revelation 11:3-6
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

Revelation 16:1-11KJV
1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.
3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.
5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.
6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.
7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments.
8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.
9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.
10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.

In Christ, God does not spare His born again saints from persecution and/or martyrdom.
However, through Christ, He said in John 11
[26] And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

 

[Earburner]

Scripture below clearly teaches the (Two Witnesses) will have "Literal" bodies that die, and they will lay in a "Literal" steet where Jesus was crucified "Jerusalem"

Rev. 11:1, 8
If you listen closely in verses 1 and 8, you will discover who it is that is speaking:
Rev. 11[1] And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying,.......
[8]........where also  OUR Lord was crucified.

Q. Is not Jesus Lord of the angels "also"?
A. Yes, He is!
The emphasis, from the angel's perspective, is on the words: "also OUR Lord", and not the words: "where also".

The KJV words "where also our Lord was crucified" is an interjection of personal thought by the angel speaking, and NOT John.

For the sole purpose of understanding, it could also be read as: "where also MY Lord was crucified", suggesting that any personal possessive pronoun (ppp) can be used, such as "your", "their", "my", or "our".

To better clarify: when we read it from the Textus Receptus Greek, we will see that there was a word shift in translation with the word "also", as revealed in the following comparison:
"where our Lord was also crucified" (TRG).
"where also our Lord was crucified" (KJV).
Though this word shift may appear insignificant, the reality is to correctly understand WHO it is that is speaking the (ppp) word of "our".
Many assume it is John, when in all truth, it is the angel who is interjecting his own thoughts.

Therefore, by such a minute change, of shifting the word "also", from it's original Greek placement, it has a strong effect on how we may interpret the context of verse 8, mainly by who we think it is that is speaking.

So now, we can focus on what the angel is saying about where his Lord (as well as our Lord) was crucified, being that of Jerusalem and the Jews, who are now made to be equal to the Gentiles, in the Lord's sight, being "the great city [Jerusalem], which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt...."
This is of great understanding for the Jews to realize, that God, through the angel speaking, has declared ALL to be equally sinful, and that ALL are in need of God's Grace through Jesus.

Therefore, "the great city" of "Jerusalem, which now is" (Gal. 4:22-30), is of no importance whatsoever to God. It is the "mother" that "is fallen".

 

[Truth7t7]

Rev. 11:1, 8
If you listen closely in verses 1 and 8, you will discover who it is that is speaking:
Rev. 11[1] And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying,.......
[8]........where also  OUR Lord was crucified.

Q. Is not Jesus Lord of the angels "also"?
A. Yes, He is!
The emphasis, from the angel's perspective, is on the words: "also OUR Lord", and not the words: "where also".

The KJV words "where also our Lord was crucified" is an interjection of personal thought by the angel speaking, and NOT John.

For the sole purpose of understanding, it could also be read as: "where also MY Lord was crucified", suggesting that any personal possessive pronoun (ppp) can be used, such as "your", "their", "my", or "our".

To better clarify: when we read it from the Textus Receptus Greek, we will see that there was a word shift in translation with the word "also", as revealed in the following comparison:
"where our Lord was also crucified" (TRG).
"where also our Lord was crucified" (KJV).
Though this word shift may appear insignificant, the reality is to correctly understand WHO it is that is speaking the (ppp) word of "our".
Many assume it is John, when in all truth, it is the angel who is interjecting his own thoughts.

Therefore, by such a minute change, of shifting the word "also", from it's original Greek placement, it has a strong effect on how we may interpret the context of verse 8, mainly by who we think it is that is speaking.

So now, we can focus on what the angel is saying about where his Lord (as well as our Lord) was crucified, being that of Jerusalem and the Jews, who are now made to be equal to the Gentiles, in the Lord's sight, being "the great city [Jerusalem], which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt...."
This is of great understanding for the Jews to realize, that God, through the angel speaking, has declared ALL to be equally sinful, and that ALL are in need of God's Grace through Jesus.

Therefore, "the great city" of "Jerusalem, which now is" (Gal. 4:22-30), is of no importance whatsoever to God. It is the "mother" that "is fallen".

I disagree with your claims Jesus and John the Baptist are the (Two Witnesses) Jesus isn't going to lay in a street dead in a future Jerusalem

 

[Earburner]

I disagree with your claims Jesus and John the Baptist are the (Two Witnesses) Jesus isn't going to lay in a street dead in a future Jerusalem

1. Do you agree that the 2W will appear together as a joint ministry?

2. Do you agree that one of the 2W will be in the spirit (the manner) of Elijah, as Jesus described?

3. Do you agree that their testimony (ministry) will only last for 1260 days (3.5 years)?

4. Do you agree that the 2W shall be killed, but soon afterwards, shall be resurrected?

5. Do you agree that God seeks for people, of whom are tried and tested by Him unto repentance towards Him, for the sake of their salvation?

6. Do you agree that all people, who do come to repentance towards God, through Jesus, actually do rejoice over His death, for their salvation?

7. Do you agree that the 2W should be anointed with the Holy Spirit at birth, and therefore would be equal to, but not greater than John the baptist and Jesus?

8. What do Jesus words mean to you in the following scriptures? Mat. 11:7-15
[7] And as they departed, Jesus began to say unto the multitudes concerning John, What went ye out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken with the wind?
[8] But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in soft raiment? behold, they that wear soft clothing are in kings' houses.
[9] But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet.

[10] For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.

[11] Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

[12] And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
[13] For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.
[14] And if ye will receive it, this is Elias [Elijah], which was for to come.

[15] He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

 

[Truth7t7]

1. Do you agree that the 2W will appear together as a joint ministry?

2. Do you agree that one of the 2W will be in the spirit (the manner) of Elijah, as Jesus described?

3. Do you agree that their testimony (ministry) will only last for 1260 days (3.5 years)?

4. Do you agree that the 2W shall be killed, but soon afterwards, shall be resurrected?

5. Do you agree that God seeks for people, of whom are tried and tested by Him unto repentance towards Him, for the sake of their salvation?

6. Do you agree that all people, who do come to repentance towards God, through Jesus, actually do rejoice over His death, for their salvation?

7. Do you agree that the 2W should be anointed with the Holy Spirit at birth, and therefore would be equal to, but not greater than John the baptist and Jesus?

8. What do Jesus words mean to you in the following scriptures? Mat. 11:7-15
[7] And as they departed, Jesus began to say unto the multitudes concerning John, What went ye out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken with the wind?
[8] But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in soft raiment? behold, they that wear soft clothing are in kings' houses.
[9] But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet.

[10] For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.

[11] Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

[12] And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
[13] For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.
[14] And if ye will receive it, this is Elias [Elijah], which was for to come.

[15] He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

[16] Jesus nor John the Baptist are one of the two witnesses

 

[Earburner]

[16] Jesus nor John the Baptist are the one one of the two witnesses

Don't you find it odd that Jesus declared that John the Baptist is Elijah who was prophesied to come?

Why is it that your understanding doesn't line up with Jesus' understanding in Mat. 11:14?

Is it because you have been told by "church-ianity" otherwise, and therefore choose to believe in their form of truth, by "the wisdom of men", as did the Jews in Jesus' first manifestation in the flesh?
1 Cor. 2:5.

Since Jesus did say that John the Baptist is Elijah who was to come, in verse 11 did you happen to notice that Jesus said who the other witness was?

 

[Truth7t7]

Don't you find it odd that Jesus declared that John the Baptist is Elijah who was prophesied to come?

Why is it that your understanding doesn't line up with Jesus' understanding in Mat. 11:14?

Is it because you have been told by "church-ianity" otherwise, and therefore choose to believe in the truth of "the wisdom of men", as did the Jews in Jesus' first manifestation in the flesh?
1 Cor. 2:5.

Since Jesus did say that John the Baptist is Elijah who was to come, in verse 11 did you happen to notice that Jesus said who the other witness was?

The Revelation is the last book written in 96AD, John wrote of future prophetic events, not something that had been fulfilled in John the Baptist "No Brainer"

 

[Earburner]

Let's compare the TRG text of what God sees to it's translation in the KJV, of what God shows.

TRG- Rev. 1:1 Jesus Christ, whom God has given him, show his servants what he sees coming to pass, and what he has sent through his angel to his servant John

KJV- Rev. 2[1] The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Now, I am not going to play translator here, or to explain why the words in the TRG are very sufficient for understanding of "what [God] sees coming to pass".

So then, let's be real with God and ourselves, just by using a simple "rule of thumb" (1) and an example of an analogy (2).

1. In God's Eternity, in ALL of what God sees coming, He sees it through the past, present, future and eternity, all AT THE SAME TIME, which is nothing that we can do.
I REPEAT...ALL AT THE SAME TIME.

2. If while traveling on a highway, a radio announcer in a helicopter informs his audience of a terrible crash on the very route that you are travelling on, you will have heard that message.
Therefore, concerning that crash, by the announcer describing the details of the scene, that is before your destination, you have been informed of the present, PAST and future events ABOUT that crash.

We can apply that analogy to this period of God's GRACE, of events that will be in the church's FUTURE, from the Lord's very first appearance, His crucifixion, right upto The Lord's Glorious return.

 

[Truth7t7]

Let's compare the TRG text of what God sees to it's translation in the KJV, of what God shows.

TRG- Rev. 1:1 Jesus Christ, whom God has given him, show his servants what he sees coming to pass, and what he has sent through his angel to his servant John

KJV- Rev. 2[1] The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Now, I am not going to play translator here, or to explain why the words in the TRG are very sufficient for understanding of "what [God] sees coming to pass".

So then, let's be real with God and ourselves, just by using a simple "rule of thumb" (1) and an example of an analogy (2).

1. In God's Eternity, in ALL of what God sees coming, He sees it through the past, present, future and eternity, all AT THE SAME TIME, which is nothing that we can do.
I REPEAT...ALL AT THE SAME TIME.

2. If while traveling on a highway, a radio announcer in a helicopter informs his audience of a terrible crash on the very route that you are travelling on, you will have heard that message
Therefore by the announcer describing the details of the scene, that is before your destination, you have been informed of a PAST event, that will be in YOUR FUTURE.

You don't want to quote the "Full" counsel of God, you selectively pick scripture to prop up a false teaching "Sad"

1.) "The things which are" Revelation chapters 1-4 speaking of conditions of the conditions of the Church in 96AD

2.) "The things which shall be hereafter" Revelations chapters 5-22 future prophetic

Revelation 1:19KJV
19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

 

[Earburner]

^ You are correct, it really is "a no brainer".
Nothing of Revelation is going to be understood by the "brain" of our "natural man", but rather by "the mind of Christ" who IS within you.

Zech. 4
[6] Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might [mental effort], nor by power [religious persuasion], but [rather] by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts.

 

[Earburner]

You don't want to quote the "Full" counsel of God, you selectively pick scripture to prop up a false teaching "Sad"

1.) "The things which are" Revelation chapters 1-4 speaking of conditions of the conditions of the Church in 96AD

2.) "The things which shall be hereafter" Revelations chapters 5-22 future prophetic

Revelation 1:19KJV
19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

Not according to Rev. 1:1, by the TRG text.
Your/our human fleshly minds cannot discern the Mind of God.
However, the Holy Spirit, the mind of Christ CAN and DOES.
Unfortunately most are NOT accessing the mind of Christ for His interpretations, but instead try and try continually, through their "linear thinking minds" to figure out what God is seeing and then saying through Christ.

 

[rwb]

And my point is, if God had waited another 2,024 years to send Jesus, you and I would not be having this conversation, and we would not be "rejoicing over" the manifestation of His sacrificial death, and the permanent Gift of His Holy Spirit, hoping for immortality.
People would still be going to their eternal death without any hope.
1 John 5:12-13.

A "promise", without the manifestation, is NOTHING!

Only by God's foreknowledge, in His Eternity, would that be known. No earthly person knows of it UNTIL they are converted to Christ, by being born again of His Holy Spirit.

Upto the first manifestation of Christ in the flesh, the knowledge of God's plan of His salvation was altogether kept secret (hidden) from the world. Rom. 16:25.
It is the mystery of His Grace, brought to us by His "anointed one", Jesus, "the Son of God", who also is "the son of man".
John 3:16.

As I've shown the promises of God made in heaven before creation are assured, none of His promises will fail! If you must see before you believe His promises, then you lack faith. God's people from Adam forward know that God ordained by promise to send a Saviour for His people, that is whosoever believes.

God's foreknowledge is Him knowing from before creation those whom He predestinates to be conformed to the image of His Son. Those He foreknows, are those whom He did predestinate, whom He called, whom He justified, and them He also glorified.

Romans 8:29-30 (KJV) For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

The mystery that had been kept hidden secret since the world began that has now been made known, since Christ's coming, is that the Gospel would be made known to all nations, and Gentiles will fill up the spiritual Kingdom of God in heaven as they hear the Gospel proclaimed in power of the Spirit and according to grace through faith the have eternal spiritual life through Him.

Romans 16:25-27 (KJV) Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen. Written to the Romans from Corinthus, and sent by Phebe servant of the church at Cenchrea.

Colossians 1:26-28 (KJV) Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

Before the advent of Christ' coming in the flesh, the good news of the Saviour/Messiah who would come to save His people was hidden from the nations, given only to one nation, Israel/Jews. Before Christ ascended to heaven, He gave His churches on earth a mandate to goes into all the world and preach the Gospel, for salvation had come to whosoever believes from all nations of the world.

 

[Earburner]

As I've shown the promises of God made in heaven before creation are assured, none of His promises will fail! If you must see before you believe His promises, then you lack faith. God's people from Adam forward know that God ordained by promise to send a Saviour for His people, that is whosoever believes.

God's foreknowledge is Him knowing from before creation those whom He predestinates to be conformed to the image of His Son. Those He foreknows, are those whom He did predestinate, whom He called, whom He justified, and them He also glorified.

Romans 8:29-30 (KJV) For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

The mystery that had been kept hidden secret since the world began that has now been made known, since Christ's coming, is that the Gospel would be made known to all nations, and Gentiles will fill up the spiritual Kingdom of God in heaven as they hear the Gospel proclaimed in power of the Spirit and according to grace through faith the have eternal spiritual life through Him.

Romans 16:25-27 (KJV) Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen. Written to the Romans from Corinthus, and sent by Phebe servant of the church at Cenchrea.

Colossians 1:26-28 (KJV) Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

Before the advent of Christ' coming in the flesh, the good news of the Saviour/Messiah who would come to save His people was hidden from the nations, given only to one nation, Israel/Jews. Before Christ ascended to heaven, He gave His churches on earth a mandate to goes into all the world and preach the Gospel, for salvation had come to whosoever believes from all nations of the world.

(TRG text) Rom. 8:29-30
27 But he who searches the hearts has seen what the mind of the spirit is, that according to God it succeeds for the saints
28 but we see that to those who love God he always works together for good to those who are called by intention.
29 for he who forefathers [them to be born again], and [then] predestined [them] to be conformed to the image of his son, in that he is the firstborn among many brothers.

30 And he who predestined them and called them and he called them and justified them and he justified them and glorified them


Rom. 16:25-27.
Yes! As I have said, the PLAN of His Promise of salvation was in place before the world began, BUT it's physical manifestation did NOT take place UNTIL the Blood of Christ was literally SHED.
Without that literal manifestation, the actual action of God's plan would remain without power, being a plan having no merit to deilver its fulfillment of salvation to anyone.

In God's foreknowledge, only the plan of His salvation was predestined for "whosoever will" believe, and be born again of His Holy Spirit.
From that point, after our new birth, then are we predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, aka to be "made partakers of the divine nature".
"Many are called, but few chosen".

 

[rwb]

(TRG text) Rom. 8:29-30
27 But he who searches the hearts has seen what the mind of the spirit is, that according to God it succeeds for the saints
28 but we see that to those who love God he always works together for good to those who are called by intention.
29 for he who forefathers [them to be born again], and [then] predestined [them] to be conformed to the image of his son, in that he is the firstborn among many brothers.

30 And he who predestined them and called them and he called them and justified them and he justified them and glorified them


Rom. 16:25-27.
Yes! As I have said, the PLAN of His Promise of salvation was in place before the world began, BUT it's physical manifestation did NOT take place UNTIL the Blood of Christ was literally SHED.
Without that literal manifestation, the actual action of God's plan would remain without power, being a plan having no merit to deilver its fulfillment of salvation to anyone.

In God's foreknowledge, only the plan of His salvation was predestined for "whosoever will" believe, and be born again of His Holy Spirit.
From that point, after our new birth, then are we predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, aka to be "made partakers of the divine nature".
"Many are called, but few chosen".

The blood of Christ making atonement for sin has always been the only way to be saved. The blood of Christ made atonement for men/women of faith, like Abraham by hearing the Word of God and believing even from Old. The Old Covenant saints were saved by Christ's atoning blood before one drop was poured out. They were saved according to the promise of God, that can NEVER fail! That's why God preached the Gospel to Abraham, and according to grace through imputed faith Abraham believed God and was accounted righteous before God. Through faith Abraham was saved and blessed by God long before Christ came. Abraham was saved through hope, that is in knowing that God is faithful and none of His promises will fail.

Galatians 3:6-9 (KJV) Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

The prophets foretold of the Messiah who would come to redeem those of faith from sin and death. This doctrine was well known to the Old Covenant nation. That which was not clearly understood was that the Old ceremonial and sacrificial system under the Law was no longer the way for Jews to be temporarily cleansed of sins. That did not before well known until after the body of Christ, the true Temple was destroyed. After that all the Jews of faith, having the Holy Spirit understood the Old was gone forever and the New Covenant in His blood began.

Hebrews 9:8 (KJV) The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: