I believe that gay people have as much of a "choice" to be gay as you do to not sin

[Jim B]

God gave us the freedom to choose between doing what is right and wrong, and God punished the first sin in the garden of Eden and still punishes sin today.

The sins of all people are forgiven in Christ. Christians know that, unbelievers do not.

 

[rwb]

When you find the dipping in the Lake and the release in Scripture, let me know!

Exactly! How can it be brief when Scripture tells us being cast into the lake of fire is the SECOND DEATH for all who die in unbelief.

 

[rwb]

@Charlie24 Let me share another example of a garbage translation.

Jesus told us not to call any man "father".

Matthew 23:9 esv
9 And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven.

The Catholic Church will tell you that Paul told his congregants that he was their father based on the following verse from the English Standard Version Bible.

1 Corinthians 4:15 esv
15 For though you have countless[a] guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel.

Now let's look at 1 Corinthians 4:15 YLT and you'll see that it's different and that Paul didn't say that he was their "father" but that he "begat" them, in other words, he brought them to God.

15 for if a myriad of child-conductors ye may have in Christ, yet not many fathers; for in Christ Jesus, through the good news, I -- I did beget you;

Do you really deny that IN CHRIST we are sons/daughters of the Father in heaven? Both translations say the same thing. That is IN CHRIST we are of our Father in heaven.

 

[rwb]

I've shared much of scripture with you and you've rejected it.

I don't see a rejection of Scripture, rather a rejection of your understanding and forced contradiction into Scripture!

 

[rwb]

If Jesus doesn't actually save ALL men, then 1 Timothy 4:10 is untrue. It says ALL men. It doesn't say "some" men or "believers"; it says ALL men.

My brother, I'm not trying to win an argument with you. I'm trying to help you to see the truth and to understand that God is not a monster that sends his creation to an eternity of suffering.

No Patrick! It's not that any Scripture is untrue, it is your understanding of so many verses of Scripture out of context and contradictory that is untrue! You don't seem to understand you are not trying to help anyone to see truth! You are attempting to convince them to believe the same lie Satan spoke in the beginning.

 

[rwb]

What does this mean?

John 12:32
And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself

Because Christ was lifted up on the cross, salvation came to every nation of the world. And all who believe, whether Jew or Gentile, shall be saved through His atoning blood. Stop reading out of context and forcing contradiction into the Word!

 

[rwb]

Amen. For ALL of mankind.

NO! For ALL mankind WHO BELIEVE! His blood was not shed to save those who die in unbelief!

 

[rwb]

We have limited free will. Regardless of anyone's will now, in the end, ALL will be with God.

If you believe that you really need to examine your heart, Patrick! Those cast into the lake of fire are cast into the second death which is never ending.

 

[TinMan]

One of the homosexual (not gay) young men that came through my ministry had two brothers, one older and one younger both heterosexual. It was clear the father preferred the other two to him. Hence his identity problem.

being gay isn't an identity problem

 

[Daniel Blogger]

The sins of all people are forgiven in Christ. Christians know that, unbelievers do not.

The only problem I have with the statement at the top is the quotation marks around the word choice, because that also implies that we have no say in whether we sin or not, which is completely false. Paul’s letter to Titus says that the grace which has been shown us teaches us to break away from sin. Also, God does not punish people for nothing; He always punishes sinful behavior. Homosexuality is not a choice, it is a sin, and it is an even greater sin that Christians are backing out from speaking against it.

 

[Patrick1966]

it is an even greater sin that Christians are backing out from speaking against it.

I think the problem is that some Christians harp on homosexuality while ignoring other sinful lifestyles, such as drug use, alcoholism, vanity, etc.

 

[Patrick1966]

Christ is speaking of being lifted up on the CROSS!

Yes, and then he says he will draw ALL people to himself.

 

[Patrick1966]

No verse of Scripture is untrue! It is only when you try to force your unbiblical doctrine into the Bible that you make it appear to be untrue. You buy into the lie of the devil when he said man would not die through sin, but would instead become as a god.

I'm just going by the word of God.

1 Timothy 4:10 esv
For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of ALL people, especially of those who believe.

 

[Daniel Blogger]

I think the problem is that some Christians harp on homosexuality while ignoring other sinful lifestyles, such as drug use, alcoholism, vanity, etc.

They are all the same, because THEY ARE ALL SIN AND CAN BE STOPPED.

 

[Patrick1966]

They are all the same, because THEY ARE ALL SIN AND CAN BE STOPPED.

It would be hypocritical of me to pontificate about the sin of homosexuality while neck-deep in my own sins.

 

[Jim B]

NO! For ALL mankind WHO BELIEVE! His blood was not shed to save those who die in unbelief!

His blood was shed for everyone. Christ's sacrifice is the payment for all sin by all people for all time.

 

[Jim B]

The only problem I have with the statement at the top is the quotation marks around the word choice, because that also implies that we have no say in whether we sin or not, which is completely false. Paul’s letter to Titus says that the grace which has been shown us teaches us to break away from sin. Also, God does not punish people for nothing; He always punishes sinful behavior. Homosexuality is not a choice, it is a sin, and it is an even greater sin that Christians are backing out from speaking against it.

So what did Jesus say about homosexuality?

 

[Jim B]

The problem is the mistranslations that exist in most English versions. Here is the ACCURATE translation of John 3:16.

John 3:16​

​

Young's Literal Translation​

​

​

16 for God did so love the world, that His Son -- the only begotten -- He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during.

Oh, now I understand! All English translations other than Young's Literal Translation, published by one man in 1862, are wrong. Are you serious???

And exactly what does "may have life age-during" mean? It is really bad English! A far better translation is "have everlasting life" or "have eternal life" .

It is an excellent example of eisegesis to take a single phrase from a 161-year-old translation to "prove" doctrine.

 

[St. SteVen]

Hey Charlie...

He is the Saviour of all men, in the sense that He is the only Saviour.

In the sense? What?
Doesn't mean what it plainly says? I see... wait, I don't see.

"especially of those who believe" is laying down the conditions of salvation.

Charlie, Charlie, Charlie...
"... those who believe..." is OBVIOUSLY a subset of "all people".

If one interprets the this the way you do, then John 3:16 is not true.

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

Believe when? (not specified)

Here, plainly man will perish (lose his soul) if he does not believe.

Nope. Doesn't say that at all.

Don't go to the second chance for salvation thing! There is no second chance for salvation.

Heb. 9:27

"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:"

That says nothing about first or second chances.
Nothing is left to chance. IMHO

 

[Jim B]

@Charlie24 Let me share another example of a garbage translation.

Jesus told us not to call any man "father".

Matthew 23:9 esv
9 And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven.

The Catholic Church will tell you that Paul told his congregants that he was their father based on the following verse from the English Standard Version Bible.

1 Corinthians 4:15 esv
15 For though you have countless[a] guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel.
,
Now let's look at 1 Corinthians 4:15 YLT and you'll see that it's different and that Paul didn't say that he was their "father" but that he "begat" them, in other words, he brought them to God.

15 for if a myriad of child-conductors ye may have in Christ, yet not many fathers; for in Christ Jesus, through the good news, I -- I did beget you;

LOL! That ain't even good English! Again, basing doctrine on a single, one-person translation, published 161 years ago, is an excellent example of eisegesis.

You may learn some day that exact translation from ancient Hebrew, Aramaic, and Koine Greek into English is impossible. There are too many differences in vocabulary, verb tenses, idioms, etc. to make a "literal" translation possible. All translators, including Robert Young, have to make decisions throughout the translation process. That is why the best translations are made by committees of scholars, not by a single (fallible) person. You are just using Young's "literal" translation -- which is anything but literal -- to justify your predetermined doctrine. You are fooling nobody but yourself!