I believe that gay people have as much of a "choice" to be gay as you do to not sin

[TinMan]

So which do you prefer, Biblical truth, or "insights and postulates", without any real scientific proof?

Science . . . what we know . . . observation and repeatability.

You cannot look at a person's genetics and tell if they are homosexual or heterosexual. The research you presented says that right up front in the abstract.

Yet the Biblical statement is plain.

Much love!

we can't look at someone's genetics and tell if they are black or white either.

 

[marks]

Now try reading the whole thing and learn some more abut the "genetics underlying same-sex sexual behavior".

No one with even a passing knowledge of genetics has ever thought there is a single "gay gene" it is a ridiculous idea that something as complex as love attraction romance and lifetime commitments are the result of a single gene.

What the study found was five genes that are linked to homosexuality.

So they say, but maybe you missed all their qualifiers. It's still a fiction. "Linked", how? No answer there. It's supposition.

There is no observation, and no repeatability. It's not science.

If it should ever become so, they will be able to look at someone's genetics, and tell you who is straight and who isn't.

And the Bible says that God actually did something different.

Much love!

 

[marks]

we can't look at someone's genetics and tell if they are black or white either.

From Science, 12 Oct 2017

New gene variants reveal the evolution of human skin color​

Some of the mutations responsible for lighter skin in Europeans turn out to have an ancient African origin​

To understand how the MFSD12 mutations help make darker skin, the researchers reduced expression of the gene in cultured cells, mimicking the action of the variants in dark-skinned people. The cells produced more eumelanin, the pigment responsible for black and brown skin, hair, and eyes. The mutations may also change skin color by blocking yellow pigments: When the researchers knocked out MFSD12 in zebrafish and mice, red and yellow pigments were lost, and the mice’s light brown coats turned gray. “This new mechanism for producing intensely dark pigmentation is really the big story,” says Nina Jablonski, an anthropologist at Pennsylvania State University in State College.
------------------------------
This is just a small part, but compare how the writer shows the science here. Not only naming which genes, but also describing the process by which it works.

This seems a lot different to me.

Much love!

 

[TinMan]

So they say, but maybe you missed all their qualifiers. It's still a fiction. "Linked", how? No answer there. It's supposition.

I'm sure you want it to be but it isn't. Examinations of the linking is in the full study. Try reading it sometime

There is no observation, and no repeatability. It's not science.

The study itself was observation and it could be replicated by any genetics lab in the world.

If it should ever become so, they will be able to look at someone's genetics, and tell you who is straight and who isn't.

Why? We can't look at someone's genetics and identify if they are right or left handed.

 

[TinMan]

From Science, 12 Oct 2017

New gene variants reveal the evolution of human skin color​

Some of the mutations responsible for lighter skin in Europeans turn out to have an ancient African origin​

To understand how the MFSD12 mutations help make darker skin, the researchers reduced expression of the gene in cultured cells, mimicking the action of the variants in dark-skinned people. The cells produced more eumelanin, the pigment responsible for black and brown skin, hair, and eyes. The mutations may also change skin color by blocking yellow pigments: When the researchers knocked out MFSD12 in zebrafish and mice, red and yellow pigments were lost, and the mice’s light brown coats turned gray. “This new mechanism for producing intensely dark pigmentation is really the big story,” says Nina Jablonski, an anthropologist at Pennsylvania State University in State College.
------------------------------
This is just a small part, but compare how the writer shows the science here. Not only naming which genes, but also describing the process by which it works.

This seems a lot different to me.

Much love!

you might also be interested in reading that only 29% of people of African decent as the MFSD12 mutation and 16 or Europeans do have it.

 

[Patrick1966]

that only 29% of people of African decent

descent

 

[marksman]

And the fact is that we are ALL slaves to sin.

John 8: 34-36
Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who practices sin is a slaveb to sin. 35The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son remains forever. 36So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed".

The fact is that we live in an evil world and are afflicted with the condition known as "sin" and we are INCAPABLE of not sinning.

1 John 5:19 esv
We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.

Romans 7:18 esv
For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out.

My belief is that demonic and Satanic oppression is what pushes or compels us to engage in sin and, for some, that means engaging in homosexual behavior, for others it might mean getting drunk every night. It's all sin!

Ephesians 6:12 esv
For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.

We are responsible for our sins, but only to a point because ultimately, we cannot help but sin. We must try to resist sin, of course, but God has forgiven us for our sin as evidenced by the sacrifice of Jesus for ALL of mankind.

So, when people tell you that gay people have a "choice" to NOT be gay, that's not exactly true. Again, they have as much "choice" to not be gay as the critic does to not engage in sin.

There is a lot of misunderstanding surrounding homosexuals (I do not use the word gay because it is not true). Having run a ministry for same sex attracted people, I have found out what happens.

A homosexual tendancy is not sin. Acting on it is. One can get a tendancy towards same sex attraction which is not their fault or choice as it is cause by a lack of identity from the parents or caregiver. As a result they seek out identity and for some that happens to be from a same sex attraction.

Many have said they did not like the sex initially but they did like being wanted. The sex ends up as a means to an end. If it give the person identity of course they are going to pursue it.

It gets to the stage where they equate sex with identity so they are homosexual whereas in fact they are heterosexual with a distorted sense of identity.

So having a same sex attraction is not sin, but acting on it is.

 

[Patrick1966]

One can get a tendancy towards same sex attraction which is not their fault or choice as it is cause by a lack of identity from the parents or caregiver.

I know a gay guy. His two siblings are heterosexual.

 

[marksman]

I know a gay guy. His two siblings are heterosexual.

One of the homosexual (not gay) young men that came through my ministry had two brothers, one older and one younger both heterosexual. It was clear the father preferred the other two to him. Hence his identity problem.

 

[Daniel Blogger]

God gave us the freedom to choose between doing what is right and wrong, and God punished the first sin in the garden of Eden and still punishes sin today.

 

[TinMan]

One of the homosexual (not gay) young men that came through my ministry had two brothers, one older and one younger both heterosexual. It was clear the father preferred the other two to him. Hence his identity problem.

Or maybe dad was just homophobic.

 

[marksman]

Or maybe dad was just homophobic.

Or may be he was the man in the moon. I am not interested in irrelevant speculation.

 

[marksman]

God gave us the freedom to choose between doing what is right and wrong, and God punished the first sin in the garden of Eden and still punishes sin today.

Tell us something we don't know.

 

[rwb]

There are many. Here's one.

Ephesians 1:9-10
to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ 10 as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.

You appear to be ignoring "in Him" as that which shall be united together according to His will and purpose.

Let's look a little more closely at the context to rightly discern the words of Paul. Christ has made known to those "in Him" this mystery of His will. That in the fullness of time He might gather together in one "all things IN HIM", both in heaven, and on earth. That is the spirits of just men made righteous, (Heb 12:23) will be with Christ when He comes again in the fullness of time. Then the physically dead in Christ in the hour coming (Jo 5:28-29) shall be physically resurrected immortal & incorruptible (1Cor 15:51-55) reunited with our eternal spirit, to once again be complete IN HIM, then ready to inherit the new earth where all things shall be made new.

Ephesians 1:9-14 (KJV) Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

None who die in unbelief will be gathered together IN CHRIST! Scripture is very clear that all who are in the graves are resurrected in an hour coming, and those who died without Christ shall be resurrected for damnation not to live again as those who promote UR falsely claim. You really need to stop promoting and defending this lie.

John 5:29 (KJV) And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 

[rwb]

1 Timothy 4:10 esv
For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.

How do you reconcile the contradiction your doctrine forces into Scripture? If some are resurrected to damnation it is clear Paul is NOT saying that all people without exception shall be saved. Unless you can reconcile your forced contradictions, your doctrine of UR is a LIE from the depths of hell. Giving people false hope is one of the greatest lies of Satan. Remember when he said to Eve, "Ye shall not surely die"? It was a lie then, and now you are repeating Satan's lie with your false doctrine.

 

[rwb]

Romans 11:32 esv
For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.

Again reconcile the contradictions your doctrine forces every time you try to prove Satan's lie as true.

 

[rwb]

The problem is the mistranslations that exist in most English versions. Here is the ACCURATE translation of John 3:16.

John 3:16​

​

Young's Literal Translation​

​

​

16 for God did so love the world, that His Son -- the only begotten -- He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during.

No the problem is that you and all who teach Satan's lies have not truth!

 

[rwb]

I don't know what that is supposed to mean. Where does it say that God is incapable of forgiving and saving people AFTER they have physically died?

For those who die in unbelief it is judgment that comes next, not life again. Resurrected to damnation!!!

Hebrews 9:27 (KJV) And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

 

[rwb]

In the end, ALL will be with God!

John 12:32
And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself

Christ is speaking of being lifted up on the CROSS! By giving His life for atonement of sin, He made a way for all who believe Him to be saved. Not all without exception but all without distinction; people from every nation of the world.

John 12:31-33 (KJV) Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. This he said, signifying what death he should die.

 

[rwb]

Well, if it's true that God sends his creation to an eternity of torment, then the various verses that I have been sharing with you are all untrue.

No verse of Scripture is untrue! It is only when you try to force your unbiblical doctrine into the Bible that you make it appear to be untrue. You buy into the lie of the devil when he said man would not die through sin, but would instead become as a god.