Having eternal life now vs. living eternally

[Gilligan]

Having eternal life within us by Christ today, is not having everlasting life with God forever. Living and walking with God today, is not living and dwelling with God forever.

There's first a resurrection of the dead in between. And being resurrected bodily unto living eternally with God, is not by grace, but by reward.

Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy; for, behold, your reward is great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets.

And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men; Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.

Being saved in this life is not a reward for works, but being resurrected with inheritance of God, is only by reward of works.

Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God.

And, he that does good unto the end, is rewarded with the inheritance of living and dwelling with God forever.

 

[Gilligan]

Living with Christ now in this life, is not yet living with God forever.

It is impossible to be living with God forever, while still living in the world, because dwelling with God forever is only by the resurrection of the dead, and that is not by grace, but by reward.

The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether. Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.

For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

No man is rewarded by works to be saved in this life, but no man once saved, is rewarded with resurrection unto life without works.

We can argue over being saved by faith alone in this life, but no man can argue being resurrected by faith alone, and not as by reward.

We don't do good works, and eschew the evil, to be saved. We do them to be rewarded for them forever: Those are the works of the names found written in the Lamb's book of life.

 

[Two-Edged Sword]

Actually we are "saved" from nothing during life here. "Saved" refers to being saved from the future judgement of God that the world will incur, so if you are "saved" you really mean you "will be saved" on judgement day.

Eternal life is rewarded for our works (Romans 2:6 - 2:10, Revelation 22:12) but with that said, a true Christian will by nature do good works:

Works and faith go hand in hand, if no works then your faith is dead - James 2:14-18, James 2:26​

If you hear the word and don't do it, you're deceived about being saved - James 1:22, Titus 1:16​

We are created in Christ to do good works - Ephesians 2:10​

Without being holy you won't see the Lord - Hebrews 12:14​

We are sanctified by God to obey Jesus - 1 Peter 1:2​

We only do good works by the power of God though (John 15:5) so we have nothing to glory in doing them. We need to humbly remind ourselves that we are just unprofitable servants doing what is commanded of us (Luke 17:10).

 

[Stumpmaster]

Having eternal life within us by Christ today, is not having everlasting life with God forever. Living and walking with God today, is not living and dwelling with God forever.

That's why it's called the hope of glory.

Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

 

[St. SteVen]

Interesting topic. Thanks.
Not sure the premise works, but... worth discussing. IMHO

Being saved in this life is not a reward for works, but being resurrected with inheritance of God, is only by reward of works.

What do you make of this?

1 Corinthians 3:14-15 NIV
If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward.
15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—
even though only as one escaping through the flames.

 

[St. SteVen]

We don't do good works, and eschew the evil, to be saved. We do them to be rewarded for them forever: Those are the works of the names found written in the Lamb's book of life.

Salvation has nothing to do with us. Only the finished work of Christ in the Atonement.
You can't earn a gift. (or it's not a gift)

Romans 4:4-5 NIV
Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation.
5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly,
their faith is credited as righteousness.

 

[St. SteVen]

Having eternal life within us by Christ today, is not having everlasting life with God forever. Living and walking with God today, is not living and dwelling with God forever.

As I understand it, only God is eternal.

That being said, there is a position change that occurs when we believe in Christ.
We cross over from death to life. See scripture below.

I relate this to the "chasm" spoken of in the story of the Rich Man and Lazarus.
Abraham says, "... between us and you a great chasm has been set in place..." - Luke 16:26 NIV

John 5:24 NIV
“Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life
and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Having eternal life within us by Christ today, is not having everlasting life with God forever. Living and walking with God today, is not living and dwelling with God forever.

There's first a resurrection of the dead in between. And being resurrected bodily unto living eternally with God, is not by grace, but by reward.

Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy; for, behold, your reward is great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets.

And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men; Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.

Being saved in this life is not a reward for works, but being resurrected with inheritance of God, is only by reward of works.

Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God.

And, he that does good unto the end, is rewarded with the inheritance of living and dwelling with God forever.

Flesh and blood will not inherit the heavenly Kingdom, God created the earth for fleshly beings, not heaven.

 

[strepho]

Mark chapter 3, Its those who do will of God . James chapter 1, Be doers of the word, not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. Some people believe in themselves, and put Jesus in the back seat. The hearers of the word are lip service. Like playing church or chasing after ways of the world. Their spirtual condition is that they are spirtualty dead. God can't use hearers of the word. It's like having car, and no gasoline. You can't go anywhere. Jesus will not use spirtualty dead Christian people to plant seeds for Him. Revelation chapter 3, the key of David can open doors and close doors. God closed doors to heretics, fake preachers and those who choose to play church. Psalm 49:19, many people are in sheol, its holding place for the spirtualty dead or wicked. They didn't do Gods will. Read Luke chapter 16, Richman and Lazarus for more understanding.

 

[Gilligan]

That's why it's called the hope of glory.

Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

Well amen brother, That's called right division of Scripture. It's the hope of glory, yes, but not yet the glory. First there's some godly living and enduring to do.

When you think about it. Persecution unto death is the ticket to heaven, because you go out without doubt of glory to come.

Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

And admittedly I'd prefer a quick ending like Paul.

 

[Gilligan]

Being saved by grace now is from sinning. But the inherited reward of eternal salvation, is by doing good while saved unto the end.

 

[Gilligan]

Interesting topic. Thanks.
Not sure the premise works, but... worth discussing. IMHO

What do you make of this?

1 Corinthians 3:14-15 NIV
If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward.
15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—
even though only as one escaping through the flames.

1 Cor 13 is about ministry, to take heed how we build up the church, because it's the body and temple of Christ we are dealing with.

Everyone, including the apostles made errors in ministry, as when Paul rebuked Peter, and so will be judged as hay and stubble as by fire. Dead, gone, and forgotten.

However, the reward of the inheritance is not from good ministering alone, but from living godly and doing good in Christ jesus.

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? ...as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

The earnest of our inheritance, by whom we can receive it in the end, is the Holy Ghost. The inheritance is at the resurrection of the dead.

Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.

For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

The inheritance of the saints in Christ Jesus, is the everlasting kingdom of God Himself by resurrection from the dead:it's the reward for not using our liberty and grace of God for occasion to sin in the flesh.

The reward for ministry is not the kingdom of God, nor eternal salvation from the dead. Ministerial reward is laying up treasures in heaven, so long as we get there.

 

[Gilligan]

Salvation has nothing to do with us. Only the finished work of Christ in the Atonement.
You can't earn a gift. (or it's not a gift)

Romans 4:4-5 NIV
Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation.
5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly,
their faith is credited as righteousness.

You're talking about being saved by grace in this life, to which I agree. It is not be reward of works we have done.

But this is about being resurrected from the dead unto everlasting life and eternal salvation.

That's an inheritance that is only by reward, and not by someone's own belief system.

Only those doing His righteousness, are righteous as He is, and only the righteous will be rewarded with being in the likeness of His resurrection unto everlasting life.

To put it plainly, Christians can debate about being saved by faith alone, or with works, or whatnot. But the resurrection of the dead, is where the rubber meets the road. And no one ending this life in works of the flesh, will be rewarded with inheriting the kingdom of God.

For all that do such things, and all that do unrighteously, are an abomination unto the LORD thy God.

And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

God can't get any clearer with us than these warnings the same from the OT to the New.

Making up doctrinal things to bypass such things in this life, and doctrinally seduce ourselves into thinking our faith makes us exempt from the righteous judgment of God, only lasts until the grave,

After that, God doesn't care one bit about or fine and pretty doctrines we hold to. All He will look at is the works, whether righteous or sinful.

So, what's the solution? Quit worrying about doctrinal picky-points, and get to work by grace doing good and living godly in the love and Spirit of Jesus Christ.

 

[Gilligan]

As I understand it, only God is eternal.

That being said, there is a position change that occurs when we believe in Christ.
We cross over from death to life. See scripture below.

True, in this life by the faith of Jesus we now have eternal life dwelling in our souls, and if we continue in His faith and well doing, and faint not, then we will continue unto the reward of eternal salvation by resurrection of the dead.

As I said, we can fine tune a doctrine of being saved and justified by grace, faith, works, etc...but the reward of the inheritance is by reward of doing good only, not by doctrinally believing we are going to heaven.

Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God.

 

[marks]

It is impossible to be living with God forever, while still living in the world, because dwelling with God forever is only by the resurrection of the dead, and that is not by grace, but by reward.

Our resurrection is promised,

Colossians 3
1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

1 John 3:1-3
(1) Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
(2) Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
(3) And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

Both of these passages, and there are others, show that those who are God's children will remain with Jesus. Both of these show this truth in our rebirth.

Philippians 3:20-21
(20) For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
(21) Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

These are His promises to us, and He does not lie.

Much love!

 

[marks]

That's an inheritance that is only by reward, and not by someone's own belief system.

1 Peter 1:3-5
(3) Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
(4) To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
(5) Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

We are born into it.

Much love!

 

[St. SteVen]

The reward for ministry is not the kingdom of God, nor eternal salvation from the dead. Ministerial reward is laying up treasures in heaven, so long as we get there.

So long as we get there?
Treasures laid up that are never found?

 

[St. SteVen]

So, what's the solution? Quit worrying about doctrinal picky-points, and get to work by grace doing good and living godly in the love and Spirit of Jesus Christ.

Good advice. Thanks.

 

[St. SteVen]

True, in this life by the faith of Jesus we now have eternal life dwelling in our souls, and if we continue in His faith and well doing, and faint not, then we will continue unto the reward of eternal salvation by resurrection of the dead.

Seems dangerous to put conditions on salvation. How are such things measured? Was it enough?
The solid approach is to understand that salvation is based on the finished work of Christ on our behalf.
This is easily measurable. "It is finished." Done deal. Paid in full.

 

[Gilligan]

Flesh and blood will not inherit the heavenly Kingdom, God created the earth for fleshly beings, not heaven.

True. Only the new earth will have New Jerusalem come down from heaven upon it, for God to dwell with man.