Having eternal life now vs. living eternally
- Thread starter Gilligan
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As the Scripture says, the inheritance is reserved in heaven for us, and if we endure unto the end, we will receive it by resurrection from the dead.
Hav eyou already recieved that reward of inheritance?
No, your not to be persuaded by it.
You can believe in any salvation and justification by your faith alone all you wish. More power to you in this life.
But, we will only be resurrected from the dead to inherit the kingdom of God by reward, for living godly in our faith unto the end.
Have you already recieved the reward of inheritance by resurrection from the dead?
Robert Gwin
Well-Known Member
Are you unaware that the anointed Christians have to live through the great tribulation as well sir? They are the elect of Mat 24:22. Like you said they meet him in the air upon his coming, his coming is what ends the tribulation and begins the war Gilligan.
May I ask if you know who the faithful and true witness is of Rev 3:14?
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
I may have asked you this before. What do you make of this?
There is a reward, but those with nothing to show are saved too.
Do you say their salvation includes no inheritance of the kingdom of God?
1 Corinthians 3:12-15 NIV
If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw,
13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire,
and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. 14 If what has been built survives,
the builder will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—
even though only as one escaping through the flames.
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Yes. The great tribulation of warfare against the saints, which has been ongoing since the resurrection of Jesus Christ, and began with Jesus Christ in the flesh.
Not the great plagues of the Lord's wrath from the air, after the resurrection of the saints.
Begins the plagues, concluded by the war.
The Lord and God Jesus Christ. The Word and Creator at the beginning of God's Creation.
Not your's of course, but mine certainly.
Salvation without works is unjustified. the reward of inheritance at the resurrection, is by reward for works of faith, not by grace.
Grace and faith end at the grave. All that remains is judgment with reward of everlasting life or shame.
A reward for ministry is not the reward of inheritance. Everyone experiences errors of hay and stubble in ministry, but not everyone is doing works of unrighteousness and condemnation with the unrighteous.
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,...
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
Okay. Interesting view. Thanks.
What do you make of this?
The faith, not the works, of the ungodly is "credited as righteousness."
Romans 4:4-5 NIV
Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation.
5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly,
their faith is credited as righteousness.
That's true for being saved, not for inheriting the promises in the resurrection.
In this life, all we have and do in Christ is by grace. In the next is by power in the likeness of His resurrection.
Salvation now is not by reward for works done. Resurrection unto inheritance is by reward for works done.
Faith alone without works in this life, is not rewarded anything in the next.
There's no need for any Christian to argue about being saved by grace, whether with or without works. But there is no argument against being resurrected unto everlasting life by reward for doing good with faith.
Salvation now is by grace. Resurrection then is by reward.
We are saved by grace, only to enter into the race for everlasting life, not to already inherit it without running the race.
And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men; Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.
That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.
We have a promised inheritance reserved for us in heaven, by grace through faith. Now we must be doing something good about it, in order to be reward and receive that inheritance in the resurrection of the dead.
Christians can talk about being saved by their faith alone all they wish in this life. But no man will resurrect himself unto everlasting life, by their own faith alone.
It's very simple: We now have the word of promise by grace through faith, now let's do the word to receive the promise after the grave.
Arguments about being saved or not through faith alone, or with works are a waste of time, because they become irrelevant with the grave.
But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
Only the doers of the word shall inherit the promises.
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
First, it's the doctrine of faith alone and not by reward, that is refuted. At least when it comes to being resurrected unto everlasting life, and rewarded with the inheritance of the kingdom of God.
Secondly, having enough works is not the point. It's not about quantity, but quality.
It's also about duration unto the end, and continuing in good works.
And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.
We can do all the good works possible, but if we turn back to sin, then all those works are forgotten, and there is no more reward of inheritance for them.
Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumblingblock before him, he shall die, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered.
Our Father does not look past our sinning today, in order to try and remember our good deeds yesterday. In the end, what we are doing at the end, is what is rewarded in the resurrection with life or shame.
And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.
The error of faith alone is to disdain doing good as unnecessary to receiving the crown and reward of righteousness. It also excuses sinning as irrelevant to salvation and being resurrected unto life.
And so, for those that have the faith of Jesus to believe unto righteousness and do it, by eschewing evil, and loving only the good, they shall receive the reward of eternal inheritance. Peter says we can ensure it by adding those things necessary to our faith, so that we shall never fall.
We are only rewarded for doing so, not by faith alone and just thinking about it.
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
St. SteVen said:
Doesn't everyone have enough works for that?
How are such things measured?
What am I saying? I don't even think faith (in this lifetime) is needed for salvation.
Salvation is based on the finished work of Christ on our behalf.
How many is enough? If you had one good work, would the reward be the kingdom of God in heaven?
And if one good work wasn't enough, eternal damnation?
She is obviously "fainting", and might qualify for "if we faint not."
Doesn't everyone have enough works for that?
How are such things measured?
Salvation by faith alone is refuted? Not by a long shot.
What am I saying? I don't even think faith (in this lifetime) is needed for salvation.
Salvation is based on the finished work of Christ on our behalf.
I was assuming QUALITY works. Meaning "works" that God does THROUGH us.
How many is enough? If you had one good work, would the reward be the kingdom of God in heaven?
And if one good work wasn't enough, eternal damnation?
My Mom is 94 years old and losing her mental faculties. Is she damned after a life of service to God?
She is obviously "fainting", and might qualify for "if we faint not."
Should I inform my Mom of her eternal destiny?
Death bed conversions rock!
Faith? Who needs it? I want the reward!
Works religion. "Save yourself, on one else will."
Robert Gwin
Well-Known Member
The tribulation is the result of man choosing to be his own god sir. Yes Christians are persecuted, but even before the Messiah came, we were persecuted by surrounding nations. satan is warring against the saints, and eventually it will be an all out attack, which spurns the return of Jesus.
We believe Rev 20:6 has already happened sir.
We agree that it is Jesus, but you misread the verse. Do you believe Jesus is the one spoken about in Col 1:15 as well Gilligan?
I thought I was talking to a sincere person.
You fooled me. Good job.
When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
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True. Tribulation and wrath of man upon the righteous began with Cain slaying Abel.
Jesus prophesies the last tribulation upon the saints on earth, followed by God's greatest tribulation upon the unbelievers, just before His return.
I don't bother arguing with spirit-only stuff anymore. There's no sense in trying to change people's imaginations.
Nor do I argue with invented christs.
Imagination and delusion are what they are. People just have them because they want them. It is what it is, and there's no sense in arguing with it.
If I want to believe in Celtic fairy sprites twinkling in the night, why would anyone argue they are just fireflies?
But of course my soul doesn't depend upon fairy sprites, like wanting to believe in a created christ of my own choosing.
JWs live their own decent, productive, holiness lives, and if any of them do make it through the plagues of God, and are not part of the armies gathered for war against the Lamb in the air, then they may well be judged as sheep and not goats.
That is if they are neighborly to others, rather than only their own people.
For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.
The problem is that cult groups tend to only make a show of neighborliness in order to proselytize. It's not from a sincere heart. Jesus judges the spirit and heart of our deeds first.
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
Robert Gwin
Well-Known Member
And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
There is only one true Christ and God: Jesus Christ.
Every other christ is false.
Robert Gwin
Well-Known Member
Thomas was an apostle that worshiped the God Jesus worshiped and served sir. Most versions put an exclamation point after God, as he was literally shocked to know that it truly was Jesus resurrected. Put yourself in his place it would be quite a shock. How many times in your life have you exclaimed my god? Believe me if I heard you say it, I would not go around declaring the why you said it as God.
So let me ask you sir, If Jesus is God how do you account for his lies at Mk 10:40 and 13:32
The quoted verse is clear.
A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.
Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
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