Lapidem
Active Member
Right Quantum, let's work through this. First let's summarise Genesis 1, which itself is a summary of God's works in the first 7 days. This is what God created on each day according to Genesis 1
Day 1 - Heavens, Earth, Light, Darkness, Day, Night
Day 2 - Vault, separation of the waters, Sky
Day 3 - Dry ground, seas, vegetation, plants, trees, fruit, seeds
Day 4 - lights in the sky, sun, moon, stars
Day 5 - water creatures, birds,
Day 6 - land creatures, mankind male and female, undisclosed number (them)
Day 7 - Rest
I hope you concur with the above. If not we need to understand why not before we can move on.
Assuming you concur let's now tackle your various statements
Since plants, trees and shrubs were created on the 3rd day the verse you quote must refer to a time BEFORE day 3. So what you say there isn't correct. We must be looking at day 1 or 2.
Ok you are right to point this out, although it's day 2 not day 3 but the point is moot. Genesis 2 is saying that god created a man BEFORE god had created the plants, trees and shrubs etc. And then he also created a woman who we are told was the man's wife, whatever wife meant in the context of that time.
We are also told that god put the man and woman into the Garden Of Eden which had already been planted. Not quite sure what "planted" means here. It could be that lots of seeds had been planted but nothing had yet grown or it could be that some things had grown but not trees because the trees were produced AFTER the man was plonked in the garden.
8 And the Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
9 And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
What we should note from the above I think, is that the Garden Of Eden MUST be a place separate from the "heavens and earth" because we know that chronologically we are at Day 2 and no shrubs or plants had yet been created on earth, but yet god HAD planted the Garden of Eden. So the man was created on Earth and then moved to the Garden Of Eden.
So far so good
Ok NO NO NO this can not possibly be true. Let's read the story. Genesis 3.
6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.
8 And they heard the voice of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God amongst the trees of the garden.
So the WOMAN ate, and did not die. She handed the fruit to the man (kinda hard to do if you're dead)
The eyes of BOTH of them were opened, they knew they were naked, and they sewed fig leaves for clothes. Again impossible to do if they had died. They were very clearly still alive despite having eaten the fruit of the forbidden tree. If you're interpreting the above verses somehow differently you'll have to make your case but for me the text very clearly states that they ate and then gained knowledge, then sewed fig leaves for clothes and then spoke to god. They were clearly still alive, not dead.
How could the man and woman have gained knowledge, had their eyes opened, physically sewed fig leaves together, walked and talked in the garden if they had been killed?
Over to you
Day 1 - Heavens, Earth, Light, Darkness, Day, Night
Day 2 - Vault, separation of the waters, Sky
Day 3 - Dry ground, seas, vegetation, plants, trees, fruit, seeds
Day 4 - lights in the sky, sun, moon, stars
Day 5 - water creatures, birds,
Day 6 - land creatures, mankind male and female, undisclosed number (them)
Day 7 - Rest
I hope you concur with the above. If not we need to understand why not before we can move on.
Assuming you concur let's now tackle your various statements
Since plants, trees and shrubs were created on the 3rd day the verse you quote must refer to a time BEFORE day 3. So what you say there isn't correct. We must be looking at day 1 or 2.
No we're on Day 1 or 2, before plants, trees etc were created.
Ok you are right to point this out, although it's day 2 not day 3 but the point is moot. Genesis 2 is saying that god created a man BEFORE god had created the plants, trees and shrubs etc. And then he also created a woman who we are told was the man's wife, whatever wife meant in the context of that time.
We are also told that god put the man and woman into the Garden Of Eden which had already been planted. Not quite sure what "planted" means here. It could be that lots of seeds had been planted but nothing had yet grown or it could be that some things had grown but not trees because the trees were produced AFTER the man was plonked in the garden.
8 And the Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
9 And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
What we should note from the above I think, is that the Garden Of Eden MUST be a place separate from the "heavens and earth" because we know that chronologically we are at Day 2 and no shrubs or plants had yet been created on earth, but yet god HAD planted the Garden of Eden. So the man was created on Earth and then moved to the Garden Of Eden.
So far so good
Ok NO NO NO this can not possibly be true. Let's read the story. Genesis 3.
6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.
8 And they heard the voice of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God amongst the trees of the garden.
So the WOMAN ate, and did not die. She handed the fruit to the man (kinda hard to do if you're dead)
The eyes of BOTH of them were opened, they knew they were naked, and they sewed fig leaves for clothes. Again impossible to do if they had died. They were very clearly still alive despite having eaten the fruit of the forbidden tree. If you're interpreting the above verses somehow differently you'll have to make your case but for me the text very clearly states that they ate and then gained knowledge, then sewed fig leaves for clothes and then spoke to god. They were clearly still alive, not dead.
Where does it state this?
How could the man and woman have gained knowledge, had their eyes opened, physically sewed fig leaves together, walked and talked in the garden if they had been killed?
Over to you
