Why Hell is not a place of eternal conscious torment.

[Jack]

Eternal Life and Eternal Punishments are locations, not states of being.

One can enter or leave either one if so desired. Free will is infinite.

The Key Word is 'into'...

Matthew 25:46
"And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."

If you mean Heaven or Hell then I agree. Hell fire is a very real place as Luke 16 clearly testifies.

 

[Jack]

I don't believe it. I challenge you to prove that.

Jesus taught more about the kingdom of God and eternal life than he did about hell and burning in fire, and more about Gehenna than hades - he only mentions hades four times, whereas he mentions the kingdom of God around a hundred times.

Another Kingdom Hall victim?

 

[QuantumBit]

If you mean Heaven or Hell then I agree. Hell fire is a very real place as Luke 16 clearly testifies.

I agree.

It now boils down to how 'Heaven' and 'Hell' are defined in the Bible. This where 99% of Christians get it wrong.

 

[Keiw]

"Eternal life", "eternal punishment", same Greek word. You're not even being close to consistent!

That is impossible for a word to mean the exact opposite of itself.

 

[Keiw]

If you really think about this it is a moral problem placed upon God in the fact that He is not into fair justice. It's not fair justice to punish somebody beyond what the crime calls for. Meaning, to punish somebody for eternity for a finite amount of sins is not fair justice. It's immoral. Today, if you seen a child tortured the rest of their life until they were old for committing a few crimes like theft, and lying, we would think that their punishment was overkill or unfair.

Those teaching and believing in a literal eternal suffering--DO NOT KNOW GOD.--Deuteronomy 30:19--God set before all-LIFE or DEATH.--I say run from those blind guides. God warned all of you about them when he told all-GET OUT OF HER( Babylon the great)

 

[QuantumBit]

I agree.

It now boils down to how 'Heaven' and 'Hell' are defined in the Bible. This where 99% of Christians get it wrong.

I may as well say it and let the chips fall where they may...

Matthew 25:46
"And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."

• Everlasting Punishment = This Heavens and this Earth
• Life Eternal = New Heavens and New Earth

And there you have it. They are simply locations. We currently exist in the place called 'Everlasting Punishment'.

Note that 'punishment' should be understood to mean 'correction'.

Basically, we are here to be corrected. Those thrown into the Lake of Fire end up right back here again.

 

[Gottservant]

The problem is that things that happen in the spirit, are relative to "time".

The further from the will of God you are, the more time slows down.

So the torment is eternal, at a slow slow speed, where nothing changes.

 

[Jack]

That is impossible for a word to mean the exact opposite of itself.

Another Kindom Hall victim? Have you read the NWT? It says you're wrong.

 

[QuantumBit]

Gods justice = an eye for an eye= perfect balance. He could NOT punish one for trillions x trillions x trillions of never ending years for 70-100 years of an unrepented life.

Yeppers.

 

[Jack]

Looks like the forum has been invaded by Kingdom Hall. Hopefully some of them will get saved.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Those teaching and believing in a literal eternal suffering--DO NOT KNOW GOD.--Deuteronomy 30:19--God set before all-LIFE or DEATH.--I say run from those blind guides. God warned all of you about them when he told all-GET OUT OF HER( Babylon the great)

While I am strongly against ECT, I am not so sure the Bible would condemn a person for holding to Eternal Torment. I think most are just following the crowd and they don’t realize the implications of such a belief. I would need a verse or passage that would explictly teach that a person holding to eternal torment is not saved or never knew God. I used to believe in ECT, but I would not say I was unsaved during the time I believed in it. I was ignorant of the problems of ECT until I made the switch to Conditional Immortality.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Looks like the forum has been invaded by Kingdom Hall. Hopefully some of them will get saved.

I agree. We should pray for them.

 

[Jack]

While I am strongly against ECT, I am not so sure the Bible would condemn a person for holding to Eternal Torment. I think most are just following the crowd and they don’t realize the implications of such a belief. I would need a verse or passage that would explictly teach that a person holding to eternal torment is not saved or never knew God. I used to believe in ECT, but I would not say I was unsaved during the time I believed in it. I was ignorant of the problems of ECT until I made the switch to Conditional Immortality.

Nope, I'm following Jesus.

Luke 16
The rich man also died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 Then he cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.'

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Nope, I'm following Jesus.

Luke 16
The rich man also died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 Then he cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.'

I also believe the rich man was tormented by the flame in hell. I believe hell is a literal and real place, but the Lake of Fire is a different place than hell. The function of the Lake of Fire is to destroy things. It is the final punishment of the wicked after the Judgment.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

It's a matter whether you believe Jesus or your church. I'll stick with Jesus.

Matthew 25
46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.

Hebrews 6:2 says eternal judgment. Do you believe that God will be judging saved and unsaved for all eternity?
In other words, Matthew 25:46 is similar to Hebrews 6:2.

 

[Jack]

I also believe the rich man was tormented by the flame in hell. I believe hell is a literal and real place, but the Lake of Fire is a different place than hell. The function of the Lake of Fire is to destroy things. It is the final punishment of the wicked after the Judgment.

Why dispute the everlasting fire? It won't matter what it's name is. It's everlasting. Those burning in the fire won't care what the fire is called.

 

[Jack]

Hebrews 6:2 says eternal judgment. Do you believe that God will be judging saved and unsaved for all eternity?
In other words, Matthew 25:46 is similar to Hebrews 6:2.

I believe what Jesus said.

Matthew 25
46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into everlasting life."

Same Greek word, never ending.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Why dispute the everlasting fire? It won't matter what it's name is. It's everlasting. Those burning in the fire won't care what the fire is called.

So you believe the eternal fire of Sodom is still going?

Jude 1:7
”Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.”

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I believe what Jesus said.

Matthew 25
46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into everlasting life."

Same Greek word, never ending.

Again, what do you think Hebrews 6:2 says when it says, “eternal judgment”? Do you believe God will judge both the saved and unsaved for all eternity? That is what you must believe if you take the kind of interpretation you do with Matthew 25:46.

 

[keithr]

Another Kingdom Hall victim?

No. I've never been to a Kingdom Hall.

By your response it looks like you can't prove what you claimed. 1 Thessalonians 5:21 (KJV):

(21) Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.​