State of grace

[Episkopos]

We are living in a time where the "state of grace" is unknown and not even believed in let alone understood. When we walk in the Spirit we cannot sin. When we abide in Christ we show Christ to the world...it is no longer we who are doing the living out.

Now many will agree with the bible without understanding what they are agreeing to. As soon as you say the words of the bible in different words retaining the same meaning they say they agree with...they will deny it. They are simply indoctrinated into a word pattern which they do not understand. So they are still living in the old man according to the flesh. But a true birth in the Spirit causes one to at least SEE what the gospel and the kingdom is.

So we strive to surrender to the point where we are found IN Christ in that state of grace that makes us overcomers. How can we who are dead to sin live any longer in it? This is a question that most can only seek to avoid. Can avoidance of the truth save you?

When we have suffered to the extent that we give up our lives...grace kicks in in the form of a spiritual keeping power of God where we walk in an actual light...the armour of light that Paul maintains we need to walk in. But this is far from the casual Christianity of the masses. Christianity was never meant for the masses...but these masses have reduced the gospel to the merely shallow and doable aspects of our tiny efforts according to the flesh. Most now deny the power that resurrected Christ. They see the flesh as more powerful than the Spirit. But this is a subversion of the gospel and a stand against the truth.

 

[goodshepard55]

Good post...thanks

 

[Rach1370]

Yeah, see, I'm not sure I fully understand what you're trying to say. In the 'blended Gospel' thread, you said that as long as you were 'IN' Christ, you didn't sin. And that the longest you had done that was for a few years. Are you saying that during those 'few' years, you didn't sin...at all. No hateful thoughts popping into your head involuntarily? No sin by omission? Nothing? You truly lived a perfect life, as Christ did, during those years?
See, I find that almost impossible to believe...so please correct me if my assumptions are wrong. At this point I'm not trying to drag you out just to stomp on you! I'm really trying to understand what you're trying to say...I've noticed a few here hold to that same line. And to be honest I've not heard it before...so, could you please lay it out for me?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

What does it mean to surrender?

 

[prism]

...the armour of light that Paul maintains we need to walk in. But this is far from the casual Christianity of the masses. Christianity was never meant for the masses...but these masses have reduced the gospel to the merely shallow and doable aspects of our tiny efforts according to the flesh. Most now deny the power that resurrected Christ. They see the flesh as more powerful than the Spirit. But this is a subversion of the gospel and a stand against the truth.

Perhaps more than you think though...

And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints. And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;
(Rev 5:8-11)

 

[Episkopos]

Yeah, see, I'm not sure I fully understand what you're trying to say. In the 'blended Gospel' thread, you said that as long as you were 'IN' Christ, you didn't sin. And that the longest you had done that was for a few years. Are you saying that during those 'few' years, you didn't sin...at all. No hateful thoughts popping into your head involuntarily? No sin by omission? Nothing? You truly lived a perfect life, as Christ did, during those years?
See, I find that almost impossible to believe...so please correct me if my assumptions are wrong. At this point I'm not trying to drag you out just to stomp on you! I'm really trying to understand what you're trying to say...I've noticed a few here hold to that same line. And to be honest I've not heard it before...so, could you please lay it out for me?

Before the time that I lasted so long in that state of grace the longest I had lasted was a few weeks..once. Before that only a few days..once. But this time (about 14 years ago) I had a huge personal revival...walking in light...personal visitation and a type of circumcision that felt like a knife going into my heart. I was in a constnt state of grace for almost 2 years after that. Even my dreams were in the Lord. We were also surrounded by other disciples in those days and had many visitors from all over the world. It seemed like God did not want to waste an ounce of that grace He had given to me.

I realize this is not a typical experience...but as I abided in THAT place in Christ everything was so easy to understand. ALL the verses made complete sense. There was no need to downplay any meanings of the "impossible" sounding verses.

So I now testify that the place we are called to in Christ is a place of overcoming. It is easy to remain there but only after heaven and earth are moved to get you there. So I would say that it is very hard to get there but once there there is a keeping power of God that sticks you to the Lord like a fridge magnet. I can tell you that every thought WAS captive to Christ...I was living IN Christ...seeing through His own eyes.

If most can't believe this about my experience that's fine. But the testimony of the bible is very clear on the matter of being dead to sin and alive (only) to Christ.

The bible says...we carry the death of Christ in our mortal bodies so that the life of Christ can be made manifest in us and through us. That IS the Christian walk. It is a very narrow way...and it seems few even believe the testimony of the gospels let alone experience the grace power to walk in this resurrection life.

What does it mean to surrender?

Giving 100% of yourself on the altar of God. As soon as you give your all...something stupendous happens. My experience is to be filled with light and be able to walk in that light afterwards...until the grace leaks out. As I have stated...the first time I leaked out rather quickly from feeling trapped in this grace power that was nothing I was used to. The second time I experienced this light was not as overpowering..but I was not as leaky either. :)

Perhaps more than you think though...

And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints. And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;
(Rev 5:8-11)

I think the gospel used to be much better understood than in our times. There was a lot more faith as well. Are we not living in the end times where faith is not so easy to come by?

 

[aspen]

ugh,,,,,

mercy! Do you really follow a God that is so unmerciful? Why bother? I'd rather eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow I die than swear aligance to such a tyrant

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Giving 100% of yourself on the altar of God. As soon as you give your all...something stupendous happens. My experience is to be filled with light and be able to walk in that light afterwards...until the grace leaks out. As I have stated...the first time I leaked out rather quickly from feeling trapped in this grace power that was nothing I was used to. The second time I experienced this light was not as overpowering..but I was not as leaky either. :)

I was hoping for something more definite. What you have described is so vague it's not helpful to determine what is required.

 

[Episkopos]

I was hoping for something more definite. What you have described is so vague it's not helpful to determine what is required.

It is required that one cry out to God and seek HARD after Him. You have to push. That has been my exrerience. In what way do you mean more definite?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

It is required that one cry out to God and seek HARD after Him. You have to push. That has been my exrerience. In what way do you mean more definite?

Sorry. I meant definitive.

 

[Strat]

We are living in a time where the "state of grace" is unknown and not even believed in let alone understood. When we walk in the Spirit we cannot sin. When we abide in Christ we show Christ to the world...it is no longer we who are doing the living out.

Now many will agree with the bible without understanding what they are agreeing to. As soon as you say the words of the bible in different words retaining the same meaning they say they agree with...they will deny it. They are simply indoctrinated into a word pattern which they do not understand. So they are still living in the old man according to the flesh. But a true birth in the Spirit causes one to at least SEE what the gospel and the kingdom is.

So we strive to surrender to the point where we are found IN Christ in that state of grace that makes us overcomers. How can we who are dead to sin live any longer in it? This is a question that most can only seek to avoid. Can avoidance of the truth save you?

When we have suffered to the extent that we give up our lives...grace kicks in in the form of a spiritual keeping power of God where we walk in an actual light...the armour of light that Paul maintains we need to walk in. But this is far from the casual Christianity of the masses. Christianity was never meant for the masses...but these masses have reduced the gospel to the merely shallow and doable aspects of our tiny efforts according to the flesh. Most now deny the power that resurrected Christ. They see the flesh as more powerful than the Spirit. But this is a subversion of the gospel and a stand against the truth.

As usual nobody has it right but you.

 

[Episkopos]

As usual nobody has it right but you.

As usual the mocking tone. One should not expect too much from the Lord when this type of attitude is entertained.

 

[Strat]

As usual the mocking tone. One should not expect too much from the Lord when this type of attitude is entertained.

You speak as the lofty one from the top of the Ivory Tower,easy to do on the internet where nobody knows you,that attitude has its consequences as well.I just researched the meaning of the name you give yourself....makes sense now.
"Christianity was never meant for the masses"....no, just for the special people.....turning the gospel into just another elite club that can look down on the less worthy....with that one statement you expose the type of attitude you have....God is not willing that ANY should perish,but that ALL should come to repentance.

The path is narrow because human beings at all levels love sin and want the easy way,not because some people are better than others....only those who surrender their will to the will of God will be saved and even the ability to surrender their will is of God and not them.I am in and of myself a hopeless sinner,but God has saved me because he is God and i am not and the grace he extends to me is unmerited favor because,as another man once put it "no good thing dwells in me"

 

[Episkopos]

You speak as the lofty one from the top of the Ivory Tower,easy to do on the internet where nobody knows you,that attitude has its consequences as well.

The first time I walked in the light I did feel in a way trapped there as if in an ivory tower as you say....it got to be too much for me to not just be normal. But I had forgotten that "normal" meant just the usual life of a person outside of the knowledge and experience of God. But to my regret I wanted out. God is merciful in that after a great deal of regret and repentance on my part He said that I would walk like that again before the end.

We are so carnally gearewd so as to not take seriously the claims of the bible...sure we can accept that somewhere in fantasy land people raised the dead and whatever...but so few actually accept these testimonies as true and rational.

Before meeting the Lord, I was as you were. If this makes me an object of scorn..then at least look at the word to see the radical nature of what God will do when someone surrenders to Him. Believe the testimony of the bible at least.

 

[Strat]

The first time I walked in the light I did feel in a way trapped there as if in an ivory tower as you say....it got to be too much for me to not just be normal. But I had forgotten that "normal" meant just the usual life of a person outside of the knowledge and experience of God. But to my regret I wanted out. God is merciful in that after a great deal of regret and repentance on my part He said that I would walk like that again before the end.

We are so carnally gearewd so as to not take seriously the claims of the bible...sure we can accept that somewhere in fantasy land people raised the dead and whatever...but so few actually accept these testimonies as true and rational.

Before meeting the Lord, I was as you were. If this makes me an object of scorn..then at least look at the word to see the radical nature of what God will do when someone surrenders to Him. Believe the testimony of the bible at least.

Once again you cannot help being condescending...before meeting the lord you were like me ? priceless.....i accept the claims of the Bible by faith because it is the only way i can,the only way anybody can.The just shall live by faith...the Bible was written thousands of years ago and i am only 51 years old so fath is both a commandment as well as a practical reality for me in regard to the events mentioned in the Bible,the faith i speak of is the faith in God as the creator of the Universe and all of the laws of physics which he can break or rearrange at will.

 

[Episkopos]

Once again you cannot help being condescending...before meeting the lord you were like me ? priceless.....i accept the claims of the Bible by faith because it is the only way i can,the only way anybody can.The just shall live by faith...the Bible was written thousands of years ago and i am only 51 years old so fath is both a commandment as well as a practical reality for me in regard to the events mentioned in the Bible,the faith i speak of is the faith in God as the creator of the Universe and all of the laws of physics which he can break or rearrange at will.

Then why is an outpouring of grace on a person so dificult to accept? In my experience it is only unbelievers who have difficulty with this.

 

[Jake]

We can believe and have faith in the events recorded in the Bible, believing in their experiences, but we each need to have our own personal experience with the power of God working in our lives for any of it to hit home. How long can we borrow Paul's experiences? We need our own. Why is one person's experience denied, while another's is accepted? Does God deal with each individual the same? No. God wants to reveal Himself to us through means of whatever He chooses.

 

[Strat]

Then why is an outpouring of grace on a person so dificult to accept? In my experience it is only unbelievers who have difficulty with this.

I am familiar with your tactics,it won't work here,you think if you talk in a big enough circle your words will be forgotten.

 

[lawrance]

Grace meaning a favor or gift.

A supernatural gift of God to an intellectual creature, bestowed with a view to eternal life.

Actual grace.

Habitual grace or Sanctifying grace. the basis for the virtues and gifts of the Holy Ghost.

Sacramental grace.

St Paul uses the word grace 110 times normally meaning a gift from God to man, to which we have no claim whatsoever.

 

[Episkopos]

Grace meaning a favor or gift.

A supernatural gift of God to an intellectual creature, bestowed with a view to eternal life.

Actual grace.

Habitual grace or Sanctifying grace. the basis for the virtues and gifts of the Holy Ghost.

Sacramental grace.

St Paul uses the word grace 110 times normally meaning a gift from God to man, to which we have no claim whatsoever.

Grace= resurrection power. Grace is that which first empowers then edifies the new creation in Christ. The state of grace is the experiencing of the apprehending of the gift of God to men...namely to be indwelt and led by the Holy Spirit.

I am familiar with your tactics,it won't work here,you think if you talk in a big enough circle your words will be forgotten.

I have given a partial testimony for the benefit of those who are seeking to go forward in Christ. The evil is in the eye of the one doing the judging. If your eye is evil then everything appears evil.