About Pharisees.

[Lambano]

The motives of the Pharisees were actually good. They wanted to do the right thing.

I agree with this. I also think the Pharisees get a bum rap. How can I fault people who wanted to keep Torah (i.e. obey the Bible) as strictly as possible?

The real reason the Pharisees became Jesus's main foil? They thought they knew what God wanted (hey, it's right there in the Law and the Prophets) - and Jesus was doing something new.

Think about it. Everyone here thinks they know the Bible. If Jesus showed up today, and He wasn't what you expected Messiah or a Prophet to be like, would you follow Him?

 

[MatthewG]

Growing up in a rigid place, I would have been one of the people who probably wanted to kill Jesus as first; perhaps later on either harboring hate or repenting. God caused the people who went against (his own chosen nation he was working through)him to believe in delusional thoughts that were not true. It was because of the darkness, and God was there to help them see; but they didn’t want the truth; founded in Jesus who was the light needed.

 

[Lambano]

but they didn’t want the truth;

No. They thought they already knew the truth - so they closed their minds to what Jesus was telling them. "He who has ears to hear, let him hear."

 

[MatthewG]

No. They thought they already knew the truth - so they closed their minds to what Jesus was telling them. "He who has ears to hear, let him hear."

That statement is directed to those who willingly reject due to envy and jealousy. You mention a good point of those who did repent. Because though Jesus came for the lost sheep of Israel not everyone was part is Israel (heavenly Jerusalem). There was the bride and church Jesus was building for himself with true believers who were of true Israel or heavenly Jerusalem by faith and by their love. Those who heard and believed would be saved from the wrath of God, the great and dreadful day of the lord.

 

[Lambano]

Growing up in a rigid place, I would have been one of the people who probably wanted to kill Jesus as first; perhaps later on either harboring hate or repenting.

If I were in one of those reflective moods, I might wonder if I would write Him off as just another religious nut-case. Because like those Pharisees, I think I already know what God wants. I'm an old dog, and it's hard to learn a new trick.

 

[MatthewG]

If I were in one of those reflective moods, I might wonder if I would write Him off as just another religious nut-case. Because like those Pharisees, I think I already know what God wants. I'm an old dog, and it's hard to learn a new trick.

Your reflective thoughts brings up, eat my flesh and drink my blood. Poignant.

 

[DoctrineOfGabriel]

That was simply trickery. Do you seriously think they cared?

We know many Pharisees truly cared. Have you read the pdf? You will find all the instances there.

 

[DoctrineOfGabriel]

Definition

Phar·i·see
/ˈferəˌsē/

noun

1. a member of an ancient Jewish sect, distinguished by strict observance of the traditional and written law, and commonly held to have pretensions to superior sanctity.
   • a self-righteous person; a hypocrite

Definition

pharisee​

noun​

phar·i·see ˈfer-ə-(ˌ)sē
ˈfa-rə-

1
capitalized : a member of a Jewish sect of the intertestamental period noted for strict observance of rites and ceremonies of the written law and for insistence on the validity of their own oral traditions concerning the law

2
: a pharisaical person

Sadly this definition is wrong.

Pharisee in hebrew is Prushim, which means the ones who retire/quit.
Ask a theologian that knows hebrew and you trust, he will confirm.

The devil confuses many things for us.

 

[MatthewG]

I’m not worried about the devil.

Would you like to take to an even more in-depth look?

 

[DoctrineOfGabriel]

Definition

Phar·i·see
/ˈferəˌsē/

noun

1. a member of an ancient Jewish sect, distinguished by strict observance of the traditional and written law, and commonly held to have pretensions to superior sanctity.
   • a self-righteous person; a hypocrite

Definition

pharisee​

noun​

phar·i·see ˈfer-ə-(ˌ)sē
ˈfa-rə-

1
capitalized : a member of a Jewish sect of the intertestamental period noted for strict observance of rites and ceremonies of the written law and for insistence on the validity of their own oral traditions concerning the law

2
: a pharisaical person

By the grace of God I found another soul that works on clarifying the Pharisees.

Who Were the Pharisees? Bible Definition and Meaning

The Bible describes the Pharisees as a community or sect of "separatists" that were known for their self-righteous religion and pride.

www.biblestudytools.com

I have not gone fully through it, but the meaning of the word is similar to what I have said.
(I am a native hebrew speaker)

 

[DoctrineOfGabriel]

I’m not worried about the devil.

Would you like to take to an even more in-depth look?

View attachment 32143View attachment 32144

Great find, "to seprate owning a different style of life"
And their style was mostly more simple and detached from society.
Thus it is fitting to say they "retired" or "quit" society.

 

[DoctrineOfGabriel]

I’m not worried about the devil.

Would you like to take to an even more in-depth look?

View attachment 32143View attachment 32144

The word hassid comes from the word hesed, which means grace. So hassidim would mean 'ones with grace'.

 

[MatthewG]

It’s a dictionary book.

 

[MatthewG]

The word hassid comes from the word hesed, which means grace. So hassidim would mean 'ones with grace'.

Okay, cool.

 

[MatthewG]

Great find, "to seprate owning a different style of life"
And their style was mostly more simple and detached from society.
Thus it is fitting to say they "retired" or "quit" society.

Yes they were far superior in rank, and known with the title of being Gods people. That kind of mindset also extends now in todays Modern Time. As people out there believe they are part of the 12 tribes still today which they were done away with long ago. Not so sure they just up and quit society as they loved to be known in the market places and take up places in the high seatings. Thank you for dialoging with me about it.

 

[DoctrineOfGabriel]

I

Okay, cool.

I am very happy you now know that

Yes they were far superior in rank, and known with the title of being Gods people. That kind of mindset also extends now in todays Modern Time. As people out there believe they are part of the 12 tribes still today which they were done away with long ago. Not so sure they just up and quit society as they loved to be known in the market places and take up places in the high seatings. Thank you for dialoging with me about it.

Well, that is where their hypocrisy comes in :)
But as we saw together, their name does not mean hypocrisy, it was just associated with it.

The actual Pharisee teachings seem to be approved by Jesus, sadly many Pharisee did not follow their own teachings, thus hypocrites.
Some of them lived only by the law although they taught about the spirit.

 

[DoctrineOfGabriel]

Yes they were far superior in rank, and known with the title of being Gods people. That kind of mindset also extends now in todays Modern Time. As people out there believe they are part of the 12 tribes still today which they were done away with long ago. Not so sure they just up and quit society as they loved to be known in the market places and take up places in the high seatings. Thank you for dialoging with me about it.

About the tribes I dont know much. So I guess you do not consider today's Jews in Israel to be Pharisee as they claim?
They keep all Pharisee laws, and judaism always had convertion. Even if they are not the "original", they are Pharisee by the act of following the Jewish Pharisee religion that anyone can join by baptizing (and some other rituals).

 

[MatthewG]

About the tribes I dont know much. So I guess you do not consider today's Jews in Israel to be Pharisee as they claim?
They keep all Pharisee laws, and judaism always had convertion. Even if they are not the "original", they are Pharisee by the act of following the Jewish Pharisee religion that anyone can join by baptizing (and some other rituals).

No I don’t believe God deals with Israel anymore.

He deals with the whole world; now; since heaven and earth fell for the Jews with the temple on mount Mariah being desolated as promised by Jesus in, his foretelling in the Gospel.

Not only that the lost their genealogy, priesthood, and material religion was shaken and put into the dirt by rains of fire.

 

[MatthewG]

I

I am very happy you now know that

Well, that is where their hypocrisy comes in :)
But as we saw together, their name does not mean hypocrisy, it was just associated with it.

The actual Pharisee teachings seem to be approved by Jesus, sadly many Pharisee did not follow their own teachings, thus hypocrites.
Some of them only lived by the law although they taught about the spirit.

Critically looking at it; it seems that Jesus is constantly correcting the Pharisees, for their hardness of heart.

I don’t know they were really trying to be helpful or what here in this interaction with Jesus.

“At that time some Pharisees said to him, “Get away from here if you want to live! Herod Antipas wants to kill you!” Jesus replied, “Go tell that fox that I will keep on casting out demons and healing people today and tomorrow; and the third day I will accomplish my purpose. Yes, today, tomorrow, and the next day I must proceed on my way. For it wouldn’t do for a prophet of God to be killed except in Jerusalem! “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones God’s messengers! How often I have wanted to gather your children together as a hen protects her chicks beneath her wings, but you wouldn’t let me. And now, look, your house is abandoned. And you will never see me again until you say, ‘Blessings on the one who comes in the name of the Lord!’””
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13‬:‭31‬-‭35‬ ‭NLT‬‬

Luke 13:32 Jesus replied, “Go tell that fox that I will keep on casting out demons and healing people today and tomorrow; and the third day I will accomplish my purpose. | New Living Translation (NLT) | Download The Bible App Now

Jesus replied, “Go tell that fox that I will keep on casting out demons and healing people today and tomorrow; and the third day I will accomplish my purpose.

bible.com

 

[MatthewG]

It seems as though the Pharisees are trying to scare Jesus off, but he stands his ground in the telling of the unwillingness of Jerusalem to turn to the truth which was Him.