About Pharisees.

[DoctrineOfGabriel]

It seems as though the Pharisees are trying to scare Jesus off.

Well I wonder why would they do it.
If they really wanted him to die outside of Jerusalem, they could've just taken him away after capturing him.

What kind of motive you think they had except trying to save him?
Is it not possible that they are some of Rabbi Gamliel students? The same Rabbi who saved the apostles had many students and was widely respected.
It's not such a far fetched idea to think that some Pharisees were genuinely worried for Jesus.

 

[DoctrineOfGabriel]

Well I wonder why would they do it.
If they really wanted him to die outside of Jerusalem, they could've just taken him away after capturing him.

What kind of motive you think they had except trying to save him?
Is it not possible that they are some of Rabbi Gamliel students? The same Rabbi who saved the apostles had many students and was widely respected.
It's not such a far fetched idea to think that some Pharisees were genuinely worried for Jesus.

The quote about rabbi gamliel acts 5 34

But a Pharisee named Gamaliel, a teacher of the law, who was honored by all the people, stood up in the Sanhedrin and ordered that the men be put outside for a little while. 35 Then he addressed the Sanhedrin: “Men of Israel, consider carefully what you intend to do to these men. 36 Some time ago Theudas appeared, claiming to be somebody, and about four hundred men rallied to him. He was killed, all his followers were dispersed, and it all came to nothing. 37 After him, Judas the Galilean appeared in the days of the census and led a band of people in revolt. He too was killed, and all his followers were scattered. 38 Therefore, in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. 39 But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God.”

 

[MatthewG]

To scare him away. By threat of death… Herod and the Pharisees got along together.

 

[DoctrineOfGabriel]

Well I wonder why would they do it.
If they really wanted him to die outside of Jerusalem, they could've just taken him away after capturing him.

What kind of motive you think they had except trying to save him?
Is it not possible that they are some of Rabbi Gamliel students? The same Rabbi who saved the apostles had many students and was widely respected.
It's not such a far fetched idea to think that some Pharisees were genuinely worried for Jesus.

I would even add, wouldn't capturing him themselves grant them honor and maybe wealth from the king and sadduccee high priest who was the head of sahnedrin, rich and very powerful?

 

[MatthewG]

You seem to think that they’re good people but there’s not. The Pharisees there was some who believed him but wouldn’t publicly admit it. And I believe some Pharisees stop being Pharisees, and became Christians by the heart, and by the spirit but if confronted they would lose their life in admitting. Even if they were doing tradition of man practice religion.

@DoctrineOfGabriel

 

[MatthewG]

I would even add, wouldn't capturing him themselves grant them honor and maybe wealth from the king and sadduccee high priest who was the head of sahnedrin, rich and very powerful?

Have you read all the gospels?

That’s where questions can truly be answered but if you only want to speculate on skeptical questions, be careful.

 

[MatthewG]

I myself am not a good person. People can say that I’m a good person, but the reality is I’m a sinner who is needed to savior.
Take care.

 

[DoctrineOfGabriel]

To scare him away. By threat of death… Herod and the Pharisees got along together.

You seem to think that they’re good people but there’s not. The Pharisees there was some who believed him but wouldn’t publicly admit it. And I believe some Pharisees stop being Pharisees, and became Christians by the heart, and by the spirit but if confronted they would lose their life in admitting. Even if they were doing tradition of man practice religion.

@DoctrineOfGabriel

There are multiple mentions of Pharisees inviting Jesus to have food in their house.
One would not invite Jesus if they truly hated/would be ex communicated from society for that.
Association with Jesus does not seem to be a problem in Pharisee society for most of the NT narrative.

Those who shy from associating fully with Jesus are Pharisees in positions of power in the sahnedrin council.
It makes sense, since the president of the council is the high priest who is a sadducee.
He will not look kindly upon anyone disobeying him, or simple going against him.

You seem to make the claim that all Pharisee are majority bad. We know from life that such is not the case. Many were hypocrites, but to judge them all and say they were majority bad?
The scriptures don't seem to agree with you, and it is not what we see in the world.

Every society has bad people and good. Usually the masses are pressured by the ruling class and authority.
In those days the ruling class are the high priest and his denomination /sect the sadducees and on the other hand the King.

The Pharisees themselves only held positions in the sahnedrin council, but were never the president of the council, for that is always reserved for the high priest.

Jesus own words say that we should obey the Pharisees. Would he say that if they were all bad people? Filled with sin to the core?

I cannot change your heart about the Pharisees, it is between you and God.
If you have anymore questions on the matter, I will gladly answer.

Just so you know, Pharisees pray and say that they are sinners and are saved only by the kindness, forgiveness and grace of god. They never pray and say they are saved by the law.
(Yes the hypocrites lived as if only the law justified them)

 

[DoctrineOfGabriel]

I myself am not a good person. People can say that I’m a good person, but the reality is I’m a sinner who is needed to savior.
Take care.

We all are sinners... And through grace only we become good. God is so great that even in sinners like us he sees goodness.

 

[DoctrineOfGabriel]

Have you read all the gospels?

That’s where questions can truly be answered but if you only want to speculate on skeptical questions, be careful.

Yes I read it all.
If you want to discuss a specific verse relating to the Pharisee, you are welcome.
I am aware that in later parts Paul is captured and beaten and released a few times by some Pharisees.

 

[MatthewG]

Just asking. No I’m not interested in really continuing the discussion. Jesus said about himself there is none good but God.

I’m not doubting there was people who came out of the Pharisee “sect”, but I don’t even believe “Pharisee” sect is still around.

As no one is sacrificing animals to God now today, unless they do that over there where you live.


And don’t get me wrong; I’m someone who believes God can reach Muslim, buddist, Mormons, people in Africa, by the spirit and they can be a practicing Muslim or Hindu with God working in their heart to seek in faith God and to love and love others.

That’s great you read the Gosepls,


But the Pharisees aren’t special in anyway, just human beings who were need in for a savior as well, and they would in the end by Christian from the heart even if they did not really truly know it, if God worked on them by the spirit who were seeking.


God is the judge. Thank you again for the discussion but after so long it’s boring it’s just the Pharisees regular human being, people of a certain section of beliefs.

 

[DoctrineOfGabriel]

Just asking. No I’m not interested in really continuing the discussion. Jesus said about himself there is none good but God.

I’m not doubting there was people who came out of the Pharisee “sect”, but I don’t even believe “Pharisee” sect is still around.

As no one is sacrificing animals to God now today, unless they do that over there where you live.


And don’t get me wrong; I’m someone who believes God can reach Muslim, buddist, Mormons, people in Africa, by the spirit and they can be a practicing Muslim or Hindu with God working in their heart to seek in faith God and to love and love others.

That’s great you read the Gosepls,


But the Pharisees aren’t special in anyway, just human beings who were need in for a savior as well, and they would in the end by Christian from the heart even if they did not really truly know it, if God worked on them by the spirit who were seeking.


God is the judge. Thank you again for the discussion but after so long it’s boring it’s just the Pharisees regular human being, people of a certain section of beliefs.

I never claimed Pharisee are special.
My only intent is to bring to light their good deeds.
A true reading of the gospel considers the good deeds and the bad deeds.
Many preachers only focus on demonising the Pharisee, that is not in the spirit of the gospels.

I hope you come back to this thread with renewed intrest, God bless.

 

[DoctrineOfGabriel]

Just asking. No I’m not interested in really continuing the discussion. Jesus said about himself there is none good but God.

I’m not doubting there was people who came out of the Pharisee “sect”, but I don’t even believe “Pharisee” sect is still around.

As no one is sacrificing animals to God now today, unless they do that over there where you live.


And don’t get me wrong; I’m someone who believes God can reach Muslim, buddist, Mormons, people in Africa, by the spirit and they can be a practicing Muslim or Hindu with God working in their heart to seek in faith God and to love and love others.

That’s great you read the Gosepls,


But the Pharisees aren’t special in anyway, just human beings who were need in for a savior as well, and they would in the end by Christian from the heart even if they did not really truly know it, if God worked on them by the spirit who were seeking.


God is the judge. Thank you again for the discussion but after so long it’s boring it’s just the Pharisees regular human being, people of a certain section of beliefs.

And some Pharisee do practice animal sacrifice on day of atonement (yom kipur). They also practice lamb offering for when the third temple will be rebuilt, since they believe animal offerings will come back.

 

[MatthewG]

No one does good deeds but by the heavenly; God deserves credit.

 

[MatthewG]

And some Pharisee do practice animal sacrifice on day of atonement (yom kipur). They also practice lamb offering for when the third temple will be rebuilt, since they believe animal offerings will come back.

I just don’t know what to say. No interest here; people can do what they want. God looks at the heart and we look at the outward appearance, who am I to ever judge another?

 

[DoctrineOfGabriel]

No one does good deeds but by the heavenly; God deserves credit.

Have a good one. Bye- bye.

That is true, the Pharisees that did good only did it by the grace of god and their true connection with the spirit of god. Not by their own works. You are correct.

 

[MatthewG]

Anyway topic boring. I know I see the Pharisees they hated Jesus the sect itself the organized religious hypocrisy. however you want to put it.

 

[DoctrineOfGabriel]

Anyway topic boring. I know I see the Pharisees they hated Jesus the sect itself the organized religious hypocrisy. however you want to put it.

I hope you change your opinion and find in your heart to see their goodness and celebrate it.

 

[MatthewG]

I hope you change your opinion and find in your heart to see their goodness and celebrate it.

Putting Christ to death is a great thing I thank the Jewish people at that time for doing. See ya later maybe on a new topic @DoctrineOfGabriel .

 

[DoctrineOfGabriel]

Putting Christ to death is a great thing I thank the Jewish people at that time for doing. See ya later maybe on a new topic @DoctrineOfGabriel .

Well, for people that just want to generalize I guess details don't matter.
I hope you dont generalize too often different groups of people, it's always good to see the goodness of God in all of his creation.
I hope I get to discuss with you again, you seem very smart and bright, it was a pleasure, God bless you on your spirtual journey. I have learnt a lot from you, thank you.