problem related to praying in tongues

[St. SteVen]

Obviously, things that are of God are spiritual in nature. For the last time, please define the meaning of "speaking in tongues" BECAUSE from God's perspective, you have no clue as to what it is.

From "God's perspective"?
Since when are your study findings "God's perspective"? ???

If you are speaking for God, you had better be a Prophet.

Is see this act of playing "the God card" on the forum quite frequently.
Always an attempt to win a human argument by appealing to a "divine" opinion.

And I think the misuse of God's name applies here.

 

[St. SteVen]

@The Learner

Has this discussion helped you to gain a better understanding of tongues and their use?
Your OP asked a valid question. Why public tongues if Jesus commanded us to pray in private? (not in public, like the Pharisees)

The key seems to be, not LIKE the pharisees. The public aspect is not the issue.
The "to be seen of men" is the issue. IMHO
Self-aggrandizement.

 

[David in NJ]

This battle against tongues comes from the Cessationist position on tongues.
As soon as someone starts talking about "sign gifts", you can be pretty certain they have fallen prey to that position.

There would be no need for all the instruction we have about spiritual gifts
(manifestations of the Spirit) if they were not for us to use today.

The end of first Corinthians chapter twelve refers to the gifts as body parts.
The Cessationists are turning the Body of Christ into an amputee!

Believe the truth and you will know the Truth

 

[St. SteVen]

Believe the truth and you will know the Truth

I think Pontius Pilate asked a valid question: “What is truth?”

I was wondering recently about the account we have of that discussion.
Between Jesus and Pontius Pilate.

It is written like an eyewitness account, but who was there?

 

[David in NJ]

I think Pontius Pilate asked a valid question: “What is truth?”

I was wondering recently about the account we have of that discussion.
Between Jesus and Pontius Pilate.

It is written like an eyewitness account, but who was there?

the Holy Spirit

 

[St. SteVen]

Believe the truth and you will know the Truth

Let's deconstruct that statement, if you don't mind.

Two sides of an issue both claim to have the truth, but who is right?
Essentially, who has the truth? (I question the validity of the question)
It assumes that we can know the truth as a SINGULAR item.
Thus being in a position to identify and discard ALL that is "false".

Being raised evangelical, this exclusive view of "truth" was part and parcel.
We HAD the truth, everything else was false.

Now I find that we were wrong about many things.
What does that indicate about the exclusive truth claim?
Certainly wasn't air-tight.

 

[St. SteVen]

the Holy Spirit

Yes, of course. - LOL
But how did that play out in practical terms?

 

[David in NJ]

Yes, of course. - LOL
But how did that play out in practical terms?

The same way it played out with Moses who wrote Genesis even though He was never there.

“If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

“These things I have spoken to you while being present with you. 26But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.

And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts; 20knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, 21for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

ULTIMATELY - God made sure that the necessary communication between Jesus and Pilate took place and it was recorded.

ULTIMATELY - Matthew 10:16-20
Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves. Therefore be wise as serpents and harmless[f] as doves. 17But beware of men, for they will deliver you up to councils and scourge you in their synagogues. 18You will be brought before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them and to the Gentiles. 19But when they deliver you up, do not worry about how or what you should speak. For it will be given to you in that hour what you should speak; 20for it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you.

 

[David in NJ]

Yes, of course. - LOL
But how did that play out in practical terms?

i do not know about you but i need the LOL's everyday..................lol

 

[St. SteVen]

ULTIMATELY - God made sure that the necessary communication between Jesus and Pilate took place and it was recorded.

Right. We know that much.
And I don't question the account, I just wonder how it was written.

 

[St. SteVen]

i do not know about you but i need the LOL's everyday..................lol

Yup. Laughter is GOOD medicine.
I joke often with my pals at work.

I had a dream the other night that I went to heaven.
(that's how I knew it was a dream) - LOL
Anyway...

They put me to work right away.
I was at a grill, flipping burgers. To my amazement,
Jesus walked up with his plate ready for a burger.
I asked him how he liked it. He looked a bit puzzled, and then replied.
"Well done, my good and faithful servant."

 

[David in NJ]

Yup. Laughter is GOOD medicine.
I joke often with my pals at work.

I had a dream the other night that I went to heaven.
(that's how I knew it was a dream) - LOL
Anyway...

They put me to work right away.
I was at a grill, flipping burgers. To my amazement,
Jesus walked up with his plate ready for a burger.
I asked him how he liked it. He looked a bit puzzled, and then replied.
"Well done, my good and faithful servant."

AWESOME

 

[St. SteVen]

@David in NJ

Being raised evangelical, this exclusive view of "truth" was part and parcel.
We HAD the truth, everything else was false.

Now I find that we were wrong about many things.
What does that indicate about the exclusive truth claim?
Certainly wasn't air-tight.

This used to bother me greatly.
I finally realized that I needed to leave some room for faith.
If we had EVERYTHING figured out we would have rational truth, not faith.

Okay... this deserves a new thread.

Leaving Room for Faith - why we don't know EVERYTHING

At one time I was bothered by the fact that we don't really have ALL the answers. There was always a loose end somewhere. I chased the apologetics in every direction, but always came up short somewhere. And frankly, I don't remember the specifics, only the moment of my release from the tyranny...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[Ezra]

unless they are interpreting in a group meeting.

so curious how does one know they interpreting what is being said in tongues the right thing. next why should one speak in tongues then someone interpret what was said . i have been in meetings like this personally i got nothing out of it. i am not against tongues /other languages... but i have to wonder is the tongues used today .the same Bibibcal tongues spoke in the Bible. if one wants pray in tongues so be it

 

[David in NJ]

so curious how does one know they interpreting what is being said in tongues the right thing. next why should one speak in tongues then someone interpret what was said . i have been in meetings like this personally i got nothing out of it. i am not against tongues /other languages... but i have to wonder is the tongues used today .the same Bibibcal tongues spoke in the Bible. if one wants pray in tongues so be it

Ezra,
The genuine gift of tongues is authentic from our Heavenly FATHER thru the LORD Jesus Christ = Acts ch1

i have been to those churches which you posted about and i have found that many times the 'speaking in tongues' along with an interpretation only occurs thru a select individual(s) and have not found it to be authentic.

The churches today do not have the same mindset as we see in the beginning of Acts.

Most churches today are in great need and this is what the LORD Jesus said in Revelation.

Christianity has followed the same path as Israel did = elevating religion, buildings, personalities and errant teachings.

 

[JunChosen]

google speaking in tongues newadvent.org

I didn't know you get your truths (spiritual things) from "google."

Myself, I'd rather stay with the Bible, which is the Word of God!

 

[JunChosen]

Acts and 1 Corinthians are the same = to God be the Glory

I beg to differ. In Acts, the Holy Spirit was manifested (poured out) to each disciple and apostles, so that the people heard the Gospel in their original language. Remember, the apostles and disciples spoke with only one language, yet at Pentecost, there were at least 15 or so Nations that heard the Gospel preached in their own native tongue.

i never disputed any part of Acts or 1 Corinthians = to God be the Glory

Yes, except you claim they are the same which is NOT true!

The Gifts of the Spirit are for His Bride = to God be the Glory

Who did you think it was for? LOL!

 

[David in NJ]

I beg to differ. In Acts, the Holy Spirit was manifested (poured out) to each disciple and apostles, so that the people heard the Gospel in their original language. Remember, the apostles and disciples spoke with only one language, yet at Pentecost, there were at least 15 or so Nations that heard the Gospel preached in their own native tongue.

Yes, except you claim they are the same which is NOT true!

Who did you think it was for? LOL!

Acts ch2
Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, lifted up his voice, and addressed the crowd: “Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and listen carefully to my words. 15These men are not drunk, as you suppose. It is only the third hour of the day!

Same gift of tongues = just as God says

 

[Zachariah]

Good question, thanks.
Warfare prayer in the Spirit gives us "eyes" into the unseen realm.
The Holy Spirit intercedes for us using the PERFECT words to defeat the enemy.

Romans 8:26 NIV
In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness.
We do not know what we ought to pray for,
but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans.

Ephesians 6:12 NIV
For our struggle is not against flesh and blood,
but against the rulers, against the authorities,
against the powers of this dark world and
against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

Love it. When we relate prayer to the "knowlage of self" or "Truth" when we pay we call the Spirit that comes down into the darkness that gives us hope and faith. Simply, prayer gives us light in the darkness. It gives us hope that we will find that car park and faith in the sence of an unconditional trust not in a certain car park but faith that no matter what happens, all things are for the greater good.

Prayer is ritual. Rituals have been used since before we can remember in all walks of life. This is because the subconscious cannot tell the difference between what is real and what is ritual. This gives us the opportunity to break free. If done correctly can create change in the unseen realm of the individual.

Ephesians 6:12 NIV
For our struggle is not against flesh and blood,
but against the rulers, against the authorities,
against the powers of this dark world and
against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

Amen to that. Good script. In a time like this, everyone should have this hanging on their wall.

 

[Tommy Cool]

so curious how does one know they interpreting what is being said in tongues the right thing. next why should one speak in tongues then someone interpret what was said . i have been in meetings like this personally i got nothing out of it. i am not against tongues /other languages... but i have to wonder is the tongues used today .the same Bibibcal tongues spoke in the Bible. if one wants pray in tongues so be it

It would be difficult to state if the tongues today are the same as in the 1st century, I would assume so but that is not my department … that one belongs to God.

The most common misunderstanding of interpretation is ….how does the interpretation take place?

Due to the wording in the KJV it has been understood that someone else other than the one who is speaking in tongues, interprets…. that is not the case. The person who is speaking in tongues is the one who should be interpreting…. Which is the sum and substance of the tongues spoken…. If in a group meeting someone else interprets (and I know it does happen with some groups) it is either someone giving prophecy (edification, exhortation, and or comfort) or it s being faked.



Following are the verses that have caused some confusion.



I Cor 14
14:1 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual “gifts”, but rather that ye may prophesy.

14:12 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual “gifts”, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.

First …get rid of the word ➡ gifts ⬅ in verses 1 and verse 14. It was added by translators there is no corresponding Greek word for that.
The word “spiritual” in verse 1 is the Greek word (pneumatikos) meaning “that which belongs to, is determined by, influenced by, or proceeds from the spirit” (spiritual matters). Tongues, interpretation, and prophecy are a manifestation of the spirit, they are not gifts…. they are an evidence of the gift of holy spirit that you were given at the new birth. (For a more detailed explanation see this site → Tongues)

14:13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.

To “pray that he may interpret” is not pray for interpretation, but rather pray that you believe to interpret. You are already equipped with the gift of holy spirit …..which means you can operate any and all of the 9 manifestation, but if you don’t believe you can, …….pray to God that you have the confidence to accept what he has already made available to you.


Note also that verse 13 states except he interpret…. not someone else. We have to follow grammatical structure, which applies to both Greek and English. When “he” applies to the person speaking we cannot change the rules of application to suite our beliefs. In order for this to reference a totally different person, it would have to read, in the third person, they …the same applies in verse 14:5 also.


14:27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course (order) and let one (heis) interpret.

The Greek text employs the word heis for → one ….. meaning “the one in the same” not someone else which would be (hen)
(Other examples of “heis” are in Luke_12:52; Romans_3:30


14:28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

The word no in verse 28 is the Greek word mē, which is a conditional negation, depending on feeling, as opposed to the Greek word ou which would be a full and direct negation not depending on any condition, expressed or implied; based on fact.

ou is objective…. mē is subjective. If we were talking about someone else, (an interpreter not being there to interpret the tongues,) the word no would have to be ou, but it is not. The word for no in this verse is mē, and it referring to the person who may lack the will, or desire to interpret.