Moving on from Christs principles?
- Thread starter MatthewG
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@MatthewG
In other words, let us grow toward perfection. God's perfection that is:
Who is there already? Who is still falling short of that goal of being perfect as the Father is perfect?
"Not laying again the foundation of...
1) Repentance from dead works:
What works of ours would be dead works in the eyes of God? When do the Living works begin, if they ever do?
2) Faith toward God:
As opposed to faith toward the carnal things around. Would it be an instantaneous complete change or a gradual movement that eventually leads from faith to knowledge?
3) Doctrine of baptisms:
Water, Holy Ghost, Fire, Body, Death
4) Laying on of hands
Healing, blessing, ordination
5) Resurrection from the dead
From death to Life?
6) Eternal judgment: What then is this?
If those are the essential principles of the doctrine of Christ then once attained whereto should or would one proceed?
In other words, let us grow toward perfection. God's perfection that is:
| Mt 5:48 | Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. |
Who is there already? Who is still falling short of that goal of being perfect as the Father is perfect?
"Not laying again the foundation of...
1) Repentance from dead works:
What works of ours would be dead works in the eyes of God? When do the Living works begin, if they ever do?
2) Faith toward God:
As opposed to faith toward the carnal things around. Would it be an instantaneous complete change or a gradual movement that eventually leads from faith to knowledge?
| 1pe 1:9 | Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. |
| Heb 12:2 | Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; |
3) Doctrine of baptisms:
Water, Holy Ghost, Fire, Body, Death
4) Laying on of hands
Healing, blessing, ordination
5) Resurrection from the dead
From death to Life?
| Joh 10:10 | The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly. |
6) Eternal judgment: What then is this?
If those are the essential principles of the doctrine of Christ then once attained whereto should or would one proceed?
| Heb 6:3 | And this will we do, if God permit. |
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Get yourself several translations to better understand such nuance. Also, look at the verse in context:
So let us stop going over the basic teachings about Christ again and again. Let us go on instead and become mature in our understanding. Surely we don’t need to start again with the fundamental importance of repenting from evil deeds[a] and placing our faith in God. 2 You don’t need further instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. 3 And so, God willing, we will move forward to further understanding.
4 For it is impossible to bring back to repentance those who were once enlightened—those who have experienced the good things of heaven and shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the power of the age to come— 6 and who then turn away from God.
Hebrews 6:1-6 (NLT)
Clearly, the Apostle is taking the audience to task for needing to review the basics time and again. Some will be lost.
Behold
Well-Known Member
It doesn't say..>"moving on from "Christ's Principles".
Paul said to leave the "first principles of the DOCTRINE of Christ".
This means, get past the initial understanding of SALVATION as the Grace of God.
In other words @Matthew, Paul is saying that baby believers never grow up in knowledge
Paul said to get out of that "intro to" theology... that He lists... and....get to knowledge, revelation, much much beyond that, into "perfection".
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ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
Your version leaves out arche which means beginning , elementary , initial or starting point which comes just before principles or teachings of Christ.
Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
That’s precisely what a “principle” is:
“that from which a thing proceeds”
There’s nothing wrong with the version.
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
No logon is principle or teaching and arche is beginning , first , elementary etc.
See here
Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
No.
“Therefore leaving the principles [G746 archē] of the doctrine [G3056 logos] of Christ, let us go on unto perfection…
(Hebrews 6:1)
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Well in the same letter, God has already declared us perfect! Now He is in process of making us sanctified or holy in our experience!
Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
“…the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.” (1 Peter 5:10)
@Ronald Nolette
“…thou bringest certain strange things to our ears…” (Acts 17:20)
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
1 Peter is kataritzo
While Hebrews 10 is teleioo differences in meaning in the original.
Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
Hi Matthew,
The Book of Hebrews is to Jews becoming Christians. Those dead works would be "works of the flesh of the Old Testament" such as physically keeping certain Jewish only things: feasts and ceremonial circumcision with a physical knife, only eating clean meats that could be used in sacrifices to God, and even the Sabbath day that can only be kept by the letter of the Law.
But not "works of Christianity" such as baptism, repentance and obedience as some denominations who teach "faith only" today to the wrath of God. Those Christian works are alive and necessary as James taught, "without works, faith is dead. Jesus said, "If you love me, KEEP my commandments."
James 2:
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?
17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
Once that is established and understood so they don't go back and add the dead works of Judaism like some tried to do to the Galatians, now go on to the deeper doctrines of the Spirit.
1. Circumcision without hands and what it means. Cutting off the foreskin of Satan's influence to sin by destroying the works of the devil, and taking away sins against the moral laws of the Ten Commandments out of our nature, causing us to no longer need or be under those Laws as we now keep them naturally. We have no desire to commit them. Those are sins unto death.
2. The different levels of faith. The progression of God's righteousness is "revealed from faith to faith." The first level of faith God deals with for a new Christian are sins unto death, taking us from death to life.
3. Living up to the level of faith God has you at as the Author and Finisher of our faith.
4. Dead to sin. Sinless (not "sinless perfection). Sinless by the standard of the level of faith God has you on. Righteousness
5. The fruit of the Spirit. Their maturity is what leads to perfection. But committing a sin against one is a sin NOT UNTO DEATH. It will not do anything to your eternal life. But maturity in all is Holiness
6. Gifts of the Spirit
11 He who is unjust (unjustified/unsaved), let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still.”Revelation 22:11
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Perfect perhaps with what already have and already are, but perfect as our Father is perfect?
Job was perfect in the very first chapter of that book, but only perfect with what he had and what he was. He then went through trials and the LORD blessed his latter end more than his beginning. In other words he grew to be effectively more like the Father. Did not Jesus grow during his time as a man of flesh?
| Lu 2:52 | And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man. |
And then...
| 1jo 3:2 | Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. |
To be perfect as your father in heaven is perfect what does that mean?
To be kind and merciful, to the ungrateful and wicked.
How is that possible? By the spirit of course; the flesh can never produce what the Spirit of Christ with-in someone and by his strength and not their own...
It comes at the cost killing oneself along side with Christ on the cross, being buried, and raising again to new spiritual life, with and him now being in you (your heart/ soul (mind/will/emotions).
To be kind and merciful, to the ungrateful and wicked.
How is that possible? By the spirit of course; the flesh can never produce what the Spirit of Christ with-in someone and by his strength and not their own...
It comes at the cost killing oneself along side with Christ on the cross, being buried, and raising again to new spiritual life, with and him now being in you (your heart/ soul (mind/will/emotions).
I see posting bible pictures helps alot, here is verses to see in Luke 6:35, for your benefit.
Right. In plain English graduate from Pablum to solid food, just as babies and infants move to solid foods and eventually to meat. This enables them to grow physically, and that analogy applies to spiritual growth.
Peter explains this growth in 2 Peter 1: 5-8:
And beside this, giving all diligence,
add to your faith virtue;
and to virtue knowledge;
And to knowledge temperance;
and to temperance patience;
and to patience godliness;
And to godliness brotherly kindness;
and to brotherly kindness charity.
For if these things be in you, and abound,
they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful
in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
None of this comes easily.
Or then again it may come easily:
"It is hard to live for God easy, but... [too much of fleshly ways and desires included in our struggle]
Easy to live for God hard!" [The more we surrender it all continuously and completely to God the easier it becomes]
Thank you for sharing what you believe you needed to with me here.
No, it doesn't.
Here is what I am reminded off, you often post that scripture about how much study can tire a person out, and while no doubt that can happen, it is useful at least for beginner students to learn and grown, as Enoch had suggested, from eating puree, and drinking milk, going into solid foods.
Jesus right before he has gotten captured, and his disciples not even able to stay away (to apply themselves by the spirit) is the picture.
Matthew 26:40-43
New International Version
40 Then he returned to his disciples and found them sleeping. “Couldn’t you men keep watch with me for one hour?” he asked Peter. 41 “Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.”42 He went away a second time and prayed, “My Father, if it is not possible for this cup to be taken away unless I drink it, may your will be done.”
43 When he came back, he again found them sleeping, because their eyes were heavy.
The difficulty of killing or mortifying ones on flesh to submit to learn, is a difficult one as our flesh doesn't care to even read the bible it is super difficult!
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