Entire Sanctification = "In Christ"

[Behold]

It is not for you to say to another believer that if they have sin,

Im an Evangelist with a Teaching gift.

If a person has sin, then im the one you want to be around, fella.

See my Posts and Threads ?
The Cross of Christ is in them all.


So, this person keeps saying they have their sin...and they believe i have mine...... and if you have sin, then Jesus has not paid for it yet, Johann.

Ive never said that Ronald isn't saved.......but he is so double minded about his Belief.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

If you have sin, then You need to get saved.
Once you do, then "God hath made Jesus to be sin for us".

Also, I dont feel judged.... I feel great, actually.
What i I said, is that you had judged, both Ritajanice and myself, falsely.

Also,

There is no sin in Christ, and "all the born again are in Christ".

No, you are both promulgating a false gospel, namely that anyone who commits a sin is not saved! Namely you espouse and cling ot sinless perfection as a requirement to stay saved or get saved.

YOu also phrase sin in a curious way which I suspect is just another evasive way of you writing. "If you have sin". I asked you to define that and all you did was write a whole lot of words that did not address the issue Haman.

Sincerely Morde3chai, the saved one aka as nolidad

 

[Behold]

No, you are both promulgating a false gospel, namely that anyone who commits a sin is not saved!

Ritajance has never said that to you.
Why do you keep lying?

Stop LYING.

And ive never told you that if you commit sin you are not saved.

I told you 100 times that the Born again are "being NOW made free from Sin"... because "God hath made Jesus to be their sin"... 2000 yrs Ago.

The born again are IN CHRIST, and there is no sin found "IN CHRIST".

 

[Ritajanice]

‹›

Most Relevant Verses​

Verse page
" >John 3:3
Verse Concepts
Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

 

[marks]

Thank you.
I have spent some time in thoughtful prayer, for I feared you were falling for Beholds hypet-grace, whole of bible denying Pauline only, quasi- Calvinistic theology.

I'm sorry if my questions have caused you offense or any hindrance. Please forgive what I thought you answered questionable to me as his leaven. I'm sorry !

In his teaching on the cross I'm in complete agreement. Our sin is removed from us in His death, and we are given life in His resurrection. Jesus won't "un-die", so our sin will not return. And He won't be "un-resurrected" so our new life in Him is forever.

This is grace to the max. And this is the truth that enables us to live lives pleasing to God.

This grace does not excuse fleshiness.

The child who is learning to walk remains your child, and when he stumbles and falls he is still your child. And so it is with us and our Heavenly Father.

Much love!

 

[Ritajanice]

, you are both promulgating a false gospel, namely that anyone who commits a sin is not saved!

That is a lie, show me where I said this....?..anyone who commits a sin is not saved....show me wher I said this.?

 

[Johann]

Im an Evangelist with a Teaching gift.

If a person has sin, then im the one you want to be around, fella.

See my Posts and Threads ?
The Cross of Christ is in them all.


So, this person keeps saying they have their sin...and they believe i have mine...... and if you have sin, then Jesus has not paid for it yet, Johann.

Ive never said that Ronald isn't saved.......but he is so double minded about his Belief.

What's the matter @Behold? Today you are very approachable-and I almost like you.
Johann.

 

[Ritajanice]

Im an Evangelist with a Teaching gift.

You have been anointed by the power of the Holy Spirit....you are an excellent teacher....I thank Jesus for you every day, the Holy Spirit has taught me so much through you......Praise God, he knows exactly what I need....

 

[Behold]

What's the matter @Behold? Today you are very approachable-and I almost like you.
Johann.

You have not called me "Episkops" today., as you did yesterday in a post.

So, today you are just talking theology........and that is why i write Threads.

 

[Lizbeth]

Lizbeth,

"the old man of sin, is Crucified with Christ"

"Crucified" = DEAD

Paul told you to "reckon it dead"..... This means........Its dead, and never again see it any other way.

You've decided to do it differently...... as you have a lot of theological OPINIONS, ive noticed that inform your faith......as in this case,...you are in the process of putting it away.........After Paul told you its "Dead", already

And I tried to show you something about paradox in scripture. If the old man is "literally" dead how come the flesh still lusteth against the spirit? We need to take things in balance with other scriptures.

 

[Ritajanice]

◄ John 3:6 ►

Context Crossref Comment Greek Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. New Living Translation Humans can reproduce only human life, but the Holy Spirit gives birth to spiritual life. English Standard Version That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Berean Standard Bible Flesh is born of flesh, but spirit is born of the Spirit. Berean Literal Bible That having been born of the flesh is flesh, and that having been born of the Spirit is spirit. King James Bible That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. New King James Version That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

 

[Johann]

And I tried to show you something about paradox in scripture. If the old man is "literally" dead how come the flesh still lusteth against the spirit? We need to take things in balance with other scriptures.

Excellent question sister-

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.


Lusteth against (epithumei kata). Like a tug of war. This use of sarx as opposed to the Spirit (Holy Spirit) personifies sarx. Lightfoot argues that epithumei cannot be used with the Spirit and so some other verb must be supplied for it.

But that is wholly needless, for the verb, like epithumia, does not mean evil desire, but simply to long for. Christ and Satan long for the possession of the city of Man Soul as Bunyan shows.

Are contrary the one to the other (allēlois antikeitai). Are lined up in conflict, face to face (anti̇), a spiritual duel (cf. Christ’s temptations), with dative case of personal interest (allēlois).

That ye may not do (hina mē poiēte). “That ye may not keep on doing” (present active subjunctive of poieō).
That ye would (ha ean thelēte). “Whatever ye wish” (indefinite relative with ean and present subjunctive).
RWS
Cannot do (μὴ ποιῆτε)
A mistake, growing out of the misinterpretation of ἵνα noted above. Rather, each works to the end that ye may not do, etc.
The things that ye would (ἃ ἐὰν θέλητε)
The things which you will to do under the influence of either of the two contending principles. There is a mutual conflict of two powers. If one wills to do good, he is opposed by the flesh: if to do evil, by the Spirit.
Vincent

5:16 "walk by the Spirit" A PRESENT ACTIVE IMPERATIVE, Paul urged the Galatians to live a life supernaturally and continuously controlled by the Spirit of God (cf. Eph. 4:1,17; 5:2,15-18).

A primary idea in Galatians was that the Spirit is He who brings initial salvation. Thus, this verse meant that which was begun by the Spirit (cf. Gal. 3:3), is also that which is perfected by the Spirit (cf. Rom. 8:16-25). The related term "law of the Spirit," Rom. 8:1 and implied in Gal. 5:18, is exactly the same as the "law of Christ" in 1 Cor. 9:21; Gal. 6:2; and James 1:25; 2:8,12. The law of love serves others as well as self (cf. Phil. 2:1-4).

"and you will not carry out the desires of the flesh"

The strongest negation possible in Koine Greek utilizes the DOUBLE NEGATIVE with an AORIST SUBJUNCTIVE, which means "never under any circumstances."

This is found in this verse, followed by a very strong Greek word for "gratify."

The Christian life and eternal salvation are of supernatural origin. Believers are not only called to be saved—but called to Christlikeness (cf. Rom. 8:28-29; Gal. 4:19; Eph. 1:4). The contrast between "flesh" and "spirit" is common in Paul (cf. Rom. 8:1-11). "Flesh" [sarx] is used in two senses by Paul: (1) the physical body; and (2) mankind's fallen, sinful, Adamic nature. Here it is obviously #2.



5:17 This contrast between the two ways of life is also found in Rom. 8:1-11. Paul presented the two supposed ways of being saved:

human effort
God's free grace in Christ
There are then two ways to live a godly life:

human effort (which is affected by the Fall)
God's free power in the Spirit

The Judaizers were asserting human effort in both salvation and the Christian life, but Paul asserted God's supernatural provision in both.

5:18 "But if you are led by the Spirit" This is a FIRST CLASS CONDITIONAL SENTENCE, assumed true from the author's perspective or for his literary purposes.

Those who are led by the Spirit are not subject to the law (cf. Rom. 6:14; 7:4,6). This does not imply that Christians will not sin (cf. Romans 7 and 1 John 2:1), but rather that their lives are not characterized by rebellion (cf. 1 John 3:6,9).

"you are not under the Law" No ARTICLE precedes "law" in the Greek text, so the word may have a wider connotation than just the Jewish law. Here, the law has the sense of a way of life used to approach God. Here again is the contrast between the two ways of being pleasing or acceptable to God: self-effort and God's free grace.



5:19 "Now the deeds of the flesh are evident" Many commentators see several distinct categories in this list of sins. However, there is a unity here based primarily on pagan worship excesses. People reveal their true selves in their actions and motives (cf. Matt. 7:16,20; 12:33). The results of the Fall are seen in our lifestyle choices.

The KJV adds the term "adultery" to this list. It is only supported by the Greek manuscript D, Codex Bezea, which is from the sixth century A.D. It is also included into some Old Latin and Vulgate manuscripts.

Hope this is helpful @Lizbeth



Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Gal 5:26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

Johann.

 

[Lizbeth]

You have the opinion that my correcting Legalism, is to not treat Legalist's with kindness.
But you are wrong about that.... as if i didn't try to bring them out of it, THEN... im "behaving badly toward them".

If they are in my actual Class and are trying to create their carnal chaos, then i'll try to deal with them, to get them to Listen.
If that keeps failing, i'll have them get up and leave, and they can run along and enjoy their cult mentality and their carnality, but not in my Class.

HERE< ... its my Thread, and im obligated by Forum Rules, to try to deal with those that come to my Threads only to try to cause Strife.
If im a Mod, they wont last long, but, as im not that on this forum, i just have to try to deal with their carnal behavior.
It is what it is.

I am here to help and to lead and to listen, but im not here to be some carnal idiot's doormat.
And if you read yesterdays explosion on my Threads... you'll discover that i took some insults, and was lied about, and TNEN i pushed back.
I never do that initially, Lisbeth.......but when the lies start... when the false accusations start, the teaching stops in favor of something else.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now again, about this.............. "christians can't sin".

What you are thinking is based on not understanding some things regarding Soteriology.

Listen,
There are "works of the flesh"... that Christians do........and lying about me on my Threads is one of them, for example.

So, here is the reality.....
What "behold" does, is explains that : "where there is no law, there is no sin"..
In other words, if there is No Law that says.......>"thats a sin", ....then the deed is not defined by the law as a sin.

See that?

Remember...., the born again, are "not under the LAW, but under GRACE", and Grace does not define the Christian as anything but = sinless......"made Righteous".... "a new Creation, in Christ".

The Christian is always """ made free from sin"""", because there is no LAW that has dominion over us anymore (the born again) that can define a carnal deed as a "sin", and this is because Christ has died for our Sin and God has "imputed" the righteousness of Christ as "OURS".
So, when you do something that is Carnal... and you are a born again believer...
= That is a "work of the flesh". "Its an occasion to the flesh"...... that is committed while the believer is always "under Grace". "Being NOW made free from Sin".... always "made Righteous".

See, in the Kingdom of God, there is NO LAW and NO Commandments......and the born again Christian is in the KOG.
The Law and Commandments are made for the Devil's kingdom, where the unbelievers exist.
The KOG is not any of that, so, it does not need Moses or the 10..
Does God and Christ need Mose's Law, and the 10 Commandments? Not quite.... And they are the Kingdom of God... as its a SPIRITUAL Kingdom.
"God is A Spirit".
We, the born again are '""IN THEM">... "in Christ and "one with God".
This is to be "Under Grace"... "Being NOW made free from sin".... because = "Christ has redeemed us from the Curse of the Law"

What is the Curse?
Its the dominion of the Law.........its the Law's "right" to define your carnal misdeeds as "sin" and you as a "sinner".

This is Gone.... because... "Christ has redeemed the born again from the curse of the LAW"., and all the born again are in the KOG.

"Christ is the END of THE LAW....for Righteousness".

A.) where there is no law, = there is no sin...no transgression, and the born again are "NOT under the law, but UNDER GRACE".

This means that being "in Christ' always makes you, keeps you, "being NOW made free from Sin".

This means that your carnal deeds are "works of the flesh".

How did Jesus accomplish our Eternal REDEMPTION from sin?

1.) "God hath made Jesus TO BE SIN....for Us".

2.) "" Jesus is the one time ETERNAL Sacrifice for sin".

"some carnal idiot's doormat"....oh-oh, brother, what do you call that? But I'm not condemning you, just pointing it out.

Yes, where no law is there is no transgression and we have died to the Law. However we shouldn't take it too far...it needs to be understood in balance with other scriptures. For example the ones that say "if we sin we have an Advocate" and "we offend in many ways all". Spiritual understanding will see things in balance, not pit one side against the other when the truth is somewhere in the middle (in a manner of speaking). Our old man is dead, yet the reality is that it's possible to still be manifesting our old man at times and forgetting to put it off. We're not necessarily condemned for that though.

okay, so it seems that you and Rita ARE considering that when we "err" it is considered a work of the flesh, or erring, rather than sin....correct? That's what I was trying to ask her. And that is why you are saying that if we're born again we can't sin, even though we might sometimes err in doing or saying things that are bad. If we're not condemned in something that we do that is against the commands of the Lord (or fail to do what we ought to do), it's just not counted or reckoned to us as sin by the Lord, even though technically it is sinful. All right. I wanted to understand if that is where you were coming from, it certainly helps to understand a person's terminology and what they mean by what they are saying - and now I'll have to let that percolate for a while.

 

[Behold]

You have been anointed by the power of the Holy Spirit....you are an excellent teacher....I thank Jesus for you every day, the Holy Spirit has taught me so much through you......Praise God, he knows exactly what I need....

In 1991, i had been called for 4 yrs, to be an Evangelist.
That's another story..

I was learning, for 4 yrs.......studying....... doing what you do.. seminary.... trying to be perfect... of course.

I Got my call to teach, when i was sitting on a porch swing, at about 6:30am, summer time.... bible in lap, pen ready... talking to God.
It was a Saturday morning. It was '1991
And I asked God...

""""why does everyone think they are right and all the denomination disagree ????
So how do i know how to not get caught up in some cult,..? How do i find the TRUTH when all denominations are all disagreeing/fighting about it?

God answered me.
In my head... not a voice.....no earthquake... no singing heavenly host.......but an understanding came as the word...... It was a revelation, and that showed me how God talks to me..... most of the time.

He said...... "in the world, in denominations, the devil has bound some theological truth with some error, and that is why it sounds true, but isnt, as My Truth is not partial, it is not "some of it is right".
And then i understood this.... = "if you want to know the truth, you have to find out what isn't true, so that what is left standing, is True."

And what is Standing?

The CROSS.

What does that mean?
It means that the Cross is the filter, is the revealer, is the SPOTLIGHT that shows you a theological lie.
See...The Devi's gospel theology is law, and water and effort, in place of Blood and Grace and eternal life.
So what you have to do, is obsess on The Cross of Christ.........The Grace of God.... The Blood of Jesus... = The New Covenant that is The Cross of Christ, .. and by doing this, it becomes a DISCERNMENT laser beam, a dissecting scalpel , a LIE FINDER. A theological ERROR revealer.....both in the person you are dealing with, or the denomination, or a "new" bible"...........or anything that is some Theology.
The Cross is a Spiritual X-Ray that looks at what people believe and will deny it if its wrong.

The Cross reveals what isn't true in Theology...........and when you are filled with the Cross Of Christ..........You can hear, see, feel theological error as if its touchable.
I hear error in Theology.
The Cross of Christ causes it to RISE UP and BE REVEALED.

Now, who was that "Cross person"....in the Bible? And you'll see why God showed me that...

Its the person Who said this...

"""""For I determined not to know anything among you, save Jesus Christ and Him CRUCIFIED"""

and this....

"""" But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;""""

 

[Behold]

And I tried to show you something about paradox in scripture. If the old man is "literally" dead how come the flesh still lusteth against the spirit?

You didnt read verse 16, Lisbeth.

Read the verse before yours, as it tells you how to not have that inner war.

It says if you walk in the Spirit you WONT HAVE that "lust against the Spirit"


How do you walk in the Spirit?

You renew your mind that is in the FLESH, so that this ends.

What is the renewed mind?
Its to only see yourself in God's perspective, and not in yours.

"God is A Spirit".........we "walk in the SPIRIT"< when we have God's perspective.

When you dont.........you live like this........

= "that which i hate i do, and that which i want to do , i can't" "Im sinning, confessing, repeat"....for 50 yrs.

But when you gain the renewed mind, you are this..

= "Christ ALWAYS gives me the Victory".....over the world , the flesh, and the Devil.

"ALWAYS"... not occasionally, or once in a while.

God says your old man is "Crucified with Christ".
You are telling us that you are "trying to put it away" when its already dead.

You have the wrong mind.
Get your mind right, and your "battle" is going to leave you.
But not before.

 

[Behold]

"some carnal idiot's doormat"....oh-oh, brother, what do you call that? But I'm not condemning you, just pointing it out.

Yes, .. i wrote that...

Why, because its true.

= for example.

When someone like QuietThinker told me today that im the same as "Satan" on another Thread of mine.

Or when Johann says that im Like "Episkopos".. yesterday.

When Ronald Nolette says im "Preaching lies, am a liar, am harming people". in 50 posts over 3 Threads, including this one.

Michial-Imla, says im of the Devil, teaching lies, ....on all my Threads...

When FerrisBueller, says im of the devil, not born again

When Episkopos says im "Cross obsessed" with my "Whipping Boy" Jesus.

When 1stCenturyLady chases me around this forum, Thread after Thread for a MONTH, when i first showed up here.., implying that i "fornicate". she wrote.... and said that im "Gnostic"., in about 30 posts, over a few of my Threads.

Now she mostly follows me and tries to learn.
But that came about 18 months later..

Want me to list more for you Lisbeth?
I'll show you the same TOMORROW<, if you like.

So, yeah, when people prove they are Strife agents on My Threads, by trying to wipe their lying insulting Boots on me, they are going to get a Reality Check.
And if you dont like it, Lisbeth, then find another person's Thread. You offer nothing of value so far on this one, and only people like Johann who are works obsessed or confused like you, will agree with you.
If possible...If you are here later, try to remember that The Thread's TOPIC is not about "behold".

See if you can figure that out.

 

[Johann]

Yes, .. i wrote that...

Why, because its true.

= for example.

When someone like QuietThinker told me today that im the same as "Satan" on another Thread of mine.

Or when Johann says that im Like "Episkopos".. yesterday.

When Ronald Nolette says im "Preaching lies, am a liar, am harming people". in 50 posts over 3 Threads, including this one.

Michial-Imla, says im of the Devil, teaching lies, ....on all my Threads...

When FerrisBueller, says im of the devil, not born again

When Episkopos says im "Cross obsessed" with my "Whipping Boy" Jesus.

When 1stCenturyLady chases me around this forum, Thread after Thread for a MONTH, when i first showed up here.., implying that i "fornicate". she wrote.... and said that im "Gnostic"., in about 30 posts, over a few of my Threads.

Now she mostly follows me and tries to learn.
But that came about 18 months later..

Want me to list more for you Lisbeth?

So, yeah, when people prove they are carnal idiots, on My Threads, trying to wipe their lying insulting Boots on me, they are going to get a Reality Check.
And if you dont like it, Lisbeth, then find another person's Thread. You offer nothing of value so far, and only people like Johann who are works obsessed or confused like you, will agree with you.

Careful here-I can prove, from Scripture-what I mean by works, and brother, confused I ain't-we have work to do, as per the Holy Scriptures-and like you, I want to RIGHTLY divide the Scriptures-so cease and desist calling me and Lizbeth "confused and works obsessed" Something you haven't studied, I can tell.
You are not ABOVE correction friend, and by the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ I bring something to the table and can hold my own with you, on YOUR thread.
Shalom
Johann.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

That is a lie, show me where I said this....?..anyone who commits a sin is not saved....show me wher I said this.?

You have said in all that prosaic language that you do not sin anymore. YOu also like behold and he has said that if a person has sin they are not saved. Do you disagree with him.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Ritajance has never said that to you.
Why do you keep lying?

Stop LYING.

And ive never told you that if you commit sin you are not saved.

I told you 100 times that the Born again are "being NOW made free from Sin"... because "God hath made Jesus to be their sin"... 2000 yrs Ago.

The born again are IN CHRIST, and there is no sin found "IN CHRIST".

So then simply answer yes or no? Do you no longer sin? If one who is saved sins, are they saved? Just yes or no and that solves the issue.

You have said that if you have sin you are not bvorn agaqin and that means saved! So no I am not lying.

 

[Johann]

Yes, .. i wrote that...

Why, because its true.

= for example.

When someone like QuietThinker told me today that im the same as "Satan" on another Thread of mine.

Or when Johann says that im Like "Episkopos".. yesterday.

When Ronald Nolette says im "Preaching lies, am a liar, am harming people". in 50 posts over 3 Threads, including this one.

Michial-Imla, says im of the Devil, teaching lies, ....on all my Threads...

When FerrisBueller, says im of the devil, not born again

When Episkopos says im "Cross obsessed" with my "Whipping Boy" Jesus.

When 1stCenturyLady chases me around this forum, Thread after Thread for a MONTH, when i first showed up here.., implying that i "fornicate". she wrote.... and said that im "Gnostic"., in about 30 posts, over a few of my Threads.

Now she mostly follows me and tries to learn.
But that came about 18 months later..

Want me to list more for you Lisbeth?

So, yeah, when people prove they are carnal idiots, on My Threads, trying to wipe their lying insulting Boots on me, they are going to get a Reality Check.
And if you dont like it, Lisbeth, then find another person's Thread. You offer nothing of value so far, and only people like Johann who are works obsessed or confused like you, will agree with you.

Careful here-I can prove, from Scripture-what I mean by works, and brother, confused I ain't-we have work to do, as per the Holy Scriptures-and like you, I want to RIGHTLY divide the Scriptures-so cease and desist calling me and Lizbeth "confused and works obsessed" Something you haven't studied, I can tell.
You are not ABOVE correction friend, and by the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ I bring something to the table and can hold my own with you, on YOUR thread.
Shalom
Johann.