Circumcision Without Hands

[Behold]

Completely disagree-they work in perfect harmony.

Christ on the Cross is Salvation.

A.) Jesus is Salvation.

You can't "DO that" by Discipleship.

So, they are not the same.

Johann, do you realize yet that everything you can do, in your list of 1000, and all other lists of self effort.....these can be done by an unbeliever?
Are they saved if they do them?

Why not?

 

[Behold]

Explain what you mean by "discipleship"

Any type of good deed you do for God. ,including water baptism.
Any type of obedience that you DO.
Any type of self effort in God's service that you provide.

Like, me writing all the Threads i post.

 

[Ritajanice]

A Disciple Is Patient, Kind, and Gentle. ..

 

[Johann]

Christ on the Cross is Salvation.

A.) Jesus is Salvation.

You can't "DO that" by Discipleship.

So, they are not the same.

Johann, do you realize yet that everything you can do, in your list of 1000, and all other lists of self effort.....these can be done by an unbeliever?
Are they saved if they do them?

Why not?

You have yet to explain to me what an Imperative is-and to give me three examples in the Pauline epistles re these directives as recorded in Scripture Behold-you miss what I'm saying-I don't advocate a 1000 "self efforts"

Eph_2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

2:10 "we are His workmanship," The English word "poem" comes from this Greek term (poiēma). This word is only used two times in the NT, here and Rom. 1:20. This is the believers' position in grace. They are paradoxically His finished product which is still in process!

"created in Christ Jesus" This is an aorist passive participle. The Spirit forms believers through Christ's ministry by the will of the Father (cf. Eph. 1:3-14). This act of a new spiritual creation is described in the same terms used of the initial creation in Genesis (cf. Gen. 3:9; Col. 1:16).

"for good works" Believers' lifestyles after they meet Christ are an evidence of their salvation (cf. James and 1 John).

They are saved by grace through faith unto works! They are saved to serve!

Faith without works is dead, as are works without faith (cf. Matt. 7:21-23 and James 2:14-26). Salvation is a gate and a way/road. The goal of the Father's choice is that believers be "holy and blameless" (cf. Eph. 1:4).

Paul was often attacked for his radically free gospel because it seemed to encourage godless living. A gospel so seemingly unconnected to moral performance must lead to abuse. Paul's gospel was free in the grace of God, but it also demanded an appropriate response, not only in initial repentance, but in ongoing vidduy.

Godly living is the result, not lawlessness. Good works are not the mechanism of salvation, but the result.

This paradox of a completely free salvation and a cost-everything response is difficult to communicate, but the two must be held in a tension-filled balance.

Hence my disagreement-and I know you are going to protest-

American individualism has distorted the gospel. Humans are not saved because God loves them so much individually, but because God loves fallen mankind, mankind made in His image.

He saves and changes individuals to reach more individuals. The ultimate focus of love is primarily corporate (cf. John 3:16), but it is received individually (cf. John 1:12; Romans 10:9-13; 1 Cor. 15:1).
From my pastor-Dr. Utley

Shalom
Johann.

 

[Behold]

Good works are not the mechanism of salvation, but the result.

Yes.

The Cross : is the "mechanism of Salvation"

Good works are what we do, afterwards.

However, any self effort, that is "tho shalt not".... can be done by any unbeliever.

And you can be a disciple of Jesus and not be a Born again Son/Daughter of God.

(Just ask Judas about that reality).

A lot of really honest, good hearted people, died and went to hell today.

A lot of really horrible Christians, died today and didn't go to hell, and will never.


Why did the GOOD unbelievers die and go to hell like a bullet, and the horrible born again Christian, die and not go to Hell.


A.) Jesus said....."you must be born again".

 

[Johann]

Yes.

The Cross : is the "mechanism of Salvation"

Good works are what we do, afterwards.

However, any self effort, that is "tho shalt not".... can be done by any unbeliever.

And you can be a disciple of Jesus and not be a Born again Son/Daughter of God.

(Just ask Judas about that reality).

A lot of really honest, good hearted people, died and went to hell today.

A lot of really horrible Christians, died today and didn't go to hell, and will never.


Why did the GOOD unbelievers die and go to hell like a bullet, and the horrible born again Christian, die and not go to Hell.


A.) Jesus said....."you must be born again".

I stand by what I have posted-and really don't need to listen to your ramblings.
Thanks
Johann.

 

[Ritajanice]

The Cross : is the "mechanism of Salvation"

Good works are what we do, afterwards.

However, any self effort, that is "tho shalt not".... can be done by any unbeliever.

And you can be a disciple of Jesus and not be a Born again Son/Daughter of God.

(Just ask Judas about that reality).

A lot of really honest, good hearted people, died and went to hell today.

A lot of really horrible Christians, died today and didn't go to hell, and will never.


Why did the GOOD unbelievers die and go to hell like a bullet, and the horrible born again Christian, die and not go to Hell.


A.) Jesus said....."you must be born again".

Brother, you are so helpful...and so committed to serving the Lord.....thank you so much for your posts on the word of God.....I really look forward to reading your posts ....Praise God!

 

[Behold]

I stand by what I have posted-and really don't need to listen to your ramblings.
Thanks
Johann.

No worries Johann.

You just keep insulting, and ""locking horns"", and let that Strife keep being your spiritual fruit.


-much love

 

[Johann]

No worries Johann.

You just keep insulting, and ""locking horns"", and let that Strife keep being your spiritual fruit.


-much love

Shalom
J.

 

[Johann]

No worries Johann.

You just keep insulting, and ""locking horns"", and let that Strife keep being your spiritual fruit.


-much love

Let Christ Jesus be the Judge between you and me and praise God for considerate Moderators.
Johann.

 

[Behold]

Let Christ Jesus be the Judge between you and me and praise God for considerate Moderators.
Johann.

You can count on it, both down here and up above.

Matthew 12:36-37

 

[Johann]

You can count on it, both down here and up above.

Matthew 12:36-37

HUMAN SPEECH

I. OPENING THOUGHTS FROM PROVERBS

A. Language is part of the image of God in mankind (i.e., creation is spoken into existence and God talks to His human creation). It is a vital part of our personhood.

B. Human speech enables us to communicate to others how we feel about life. Therefore, it reveals who we really are (Pro. 18:2; 4:23,20-27). Speech is the acid test of the person (Pro. 23:7).

C. We are social creatures. We are concerned with acceptance and affirmation. We need it from God and from our fellow humans. Words have the power to meet these needs in both positive (Pro. 17:10) and negative (Pro. 12:18) ways.

D. There is tremendous power in human speech (Pro. 18:20-21)—power to bless and heal (Pro. 10:11,21) and power to curse and destroy (Pro. 11:9).

E. We reap what we sow in this area (Pro. 12:14).

II. PRINCIPLES FROM PROVERBS

A. The negative and destructive potential of human speech

1. the words of evil men (1:11-19; 10:6; 11:9,11; 12:2-6)

2. the words of the adulteress (5:2-5; 6:24-35; 7:5ff; 9:13-18; 22:14)

3. the words of the liar (6:12-15,19; 10:18; 12:17-19,22; 14:5,25; 17:4; 19:5,9,28; 21:28; 24:28; 25:18; 26:23-28)

4. the words of the fool (10:10,14; 14:3; 15:14; 18:6-8)

5. the words of false witnesses (6:19; 12:17; 19:5,9,28; 21:28; 24:28; 25:18)

6. the words of a gossip (6:14,19; 11:13; 16:27-28; 20:19; 25:23; 26:20)

7. the words too quickly spoken (6:1-5; 12:18; 20:25; 29:20)

8. the words of flattery (29:5)

9. too many words (10:14,19,23; 11:13; 13:3,16; 14:23; 15:2; 17:27-28; 18:2; 21:23; 29:20)

10. perverted words (17:20; 19:1)

B. the positive, healing and edifying potential of human speech

1. the words of the righteous (10:11,20-21,31-32; 12:14; 13:2; 15:23; 16:13; 18:20)

2. the words of the discerning (10:13; 11:12)

3. the words of knowledge (15:1,4,7,8; 20:15)

4. the words of healing (15:4)

5. the words of a gentle answer (15:1,4,18,23; 16:1; 25:15)

6. the words of a pleasant answer (12:25; 15:26,30; 16:24)

7. the words of the law (22:17-21)

III. THE OT PATTERN CONTINUES IN THE NT

A. Human speech enables us to communicate to others how we feel about life; therefore, it reveals who we really are (Matt. 12:33-37; 15:1-20; Mark 7:2-23).

B. We are social creatures. We are concerned with acceptance and affirmation. We need it from God and from our fellow man. Words have the power to meet these needs in both positive (2 Tim. 3:15-17) and negative (James 3:2-12) ways.

C. There is tremendous power in human speech; power to bless (Eph. 4:29) and power to curse (James 3:9). We are responsible for what we say (Matt. 12:36-37; James 3:2-12).

D. We will be judged by our words (Matt. 12:33-37; Luke 6:39-45) as well as our deeds (Matt. 25:31-46). We reap what we sow (Gal. 6:7).

You still don't know me Behold-you see me as a threat to your Pauline epistles
and sometimes a rebuke is in order-my conscience is not convicting me-I have said it over and over, you are NOT above correction.
Maybe someone else will benefit from this post from my pastor.
I am still more than willing to assist so that we may learn and grow TOGETHER-it's up to you.
Johann.

 

[Behold]

-you see me as a threat to your Pauline epistles

The NT teaches you that you please God by "faith", and that faith isn't deeds and works...but rather its found in perfected understanding....
= renewed MIND..
That is the REAL walk of Faith, and when you exist in this Right understanding = regarding who you have become "in Christ", = you are existing in the renewed mind, which is to walk in the Spirit.
That's how you live the sanctified life that is pleasing to God, and this state of revelation knowledge....to exist in it, is as Paul says............
= "as many as be perfect'.

If you are trying to get there by self effort, then you are trying to perform in the flesh, what only God the Holy Spirit can do through you.

Every single work a Christian can do, can be done also by an unbeliever.

God is always kept in perfect peace with us based on the Cross of Christ.

What i hear a lot is..."well you know... if you sin, you break your fellowship with God and so, you have to go and confess so that it can be restored.""
And of course God is always in fellowship with the Born again as they are the "Temple of the Holy Spirit, but.... that spiritual reality is not going to fit a lot of Cult's who prefer to practice sinning and confessing as their religious idea of "christianity".

 

[Johann]

Yes.

The Cross : is the "mechanism of Salvation"

Good works are what we do, afterwards.

However, any self effort, that is "tho shalt not".... can be done by any unbeliever.

And you can be a disciple of Jesus and not be a Born again Son/Daughter of God.

(Just ask Judas about that reality).

A lot of really honest, good hearted people, died and went to hell today.

A lot of really horrible Christians, died today and didn't go to hell, and will never.


Why did the GOOD unbelievers die and go to hell like a bullet, and the horrible born again Christian, die and not go to Hell.


A.) Jesus said....."you must be born again".

Remember Matthew 25 and don't forget James
JAMES 2:14-26

This section of James has caused major theological controversy. This comes not so much from the passage, contextually understood, but from our theological presuppositions and dogmatic systems of proof-texted, western theology.

James and Paul do not contradict, but complement one another. The seeming contradiction comes from a misunderstanding of (1) the purpose; (2) the recipients; and (3) definitions of key words (i.e., faith, works) of the NT books of Romans and James.

Paul is writing to Jews who believe that they are right with God on the basis of (1) their race (nationality) and (2) their keeping the law of Moses (legalism). Paul speaks of entering into the Christian life.

He uses Abraham's life as an OT example of being declared right with God before circumcision and before the Mosaic Law (cf. Gen. 15:6), based solely on God's initiating grace and the appropriate faith response (cf. Rom. 4:3; Gal. 3:6).

James is writing to church people who are making Christianity a creed instead of a lifestyle (antinomians or intellectualists, Jewish Gnostics).

These folks are asserting orthodoxy as the basis for their assurance of salvation. The books of James and 1 John assert that daily love in action is not an option for Christians, but is the evidence of their being Christians. For James, "works" are not Jewish rules, but love in action (cf. 1 Corinthians 13).

Paul and James are not giving two ways of salvation, but two aspects of one salvation. Paul speaks of the beginning of Abraham's walk of faith (cf. Genesis 15), and James speaks of its ongoing characteristics (birth of Isaac versus offering of Isaac, cf. Genesis 22).

It is not "faith or works" but "faith and works."

Not only is faith without works dead, but works without faith is also dead (cf. Matt. 7:21-23; John 15:1-6). Being a carnal, weak, baby Christian is possible (cf. 1 Cor. 3:1-3, 10-15; Heb. 5:11-14), but it is the exception, not the norm.


This section functions as an encouragement to active faith. In a sense it is a passage on assurance— not assurance as a doctrine, but as a lifestyle. Assurance is surely a biblical truth, but only in connection with daily Christlikeness, not systematic theology!

We are saved to serve. Service is the evidence of salvation. It is never the means, but it is the goal, the fruit (cf. Eph. 2:8-9 and 10). This truth is much needed in our day of
easy believism
assurance as a denominational theological tenet (usually given as a dogmatic statement at the beginning of the Christian life)

The entire book of James deals with the practical issue of how believers use their resources (physical and spiritual) on behalf of the Kingdom. Allocation of physical resources reveals the heart!

This is an important theological summary statement (cf. vv. 20 and 26). In his Study Guide Commentary on James, Curtis Vaughan sees these three summary statements as constituting the main outline:
genuine faith is not an empty claim (vv. 14-17)
genuine faith is not mere acceptance of a creed (vv. 18-20)
genuine faith is faith that produces an obedient life (vv. 21-26, p. 56)

When last did you hear a sermon on James?
Johann.

 

[Johann]

The NT teaches you that you please God by "faith", and that faith isn't deeds and works...but rather its found in perfected understanding....
= renewed MIND..

And you are aware faith without works is dead-yes?

Jas 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

Jas 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

Jas 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

Jas 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Jas 2:25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

So what do we do @Behold-come with a pair of scissors and cut out the book of James?

Meet my pastor, not ashamed to introduce him to you and I am learning from him-as I live a reclusive style of life, not by choice.

Hopefully others will listen and benefit and grow in Christ.
He is somewhat unknown, surprisingly-and HE-by the grace of God-helped me to cut off Calvinism and embrace the truth as it stands written.
Johann.

 

[Johann]

What i hear a lot is..."well you know... if you sin, you break your fellowship with God and so, you have to go and confess so that it can be restored.""

I have proven to you, from scriptures-that this is biblically correct-confess-Present, Active, Subjunctive-ongoing confessions when we miss the mark, and we do miss the mark as believers-and what about the sins of omission and commissions?

You never came back to me on this one.
Johann.

https://www.freebiblecommentary.org/mp3/Matthew/33%20Matthew%2025.31-46.mp3

The audio sermons are more in-depth-and Dr. Utley is very familiar with ancient rabbinical writings.
I believe the Holy Spirit led me to listen to anointed preaching, and so can you.
Johann.

 

[Johann]

We need to take a closer look at the verse which speaks of "circumcision without hands: In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: (Col 2:11)

What is "the body of the sins of the flesh" other than "the flesh" itself. And "the flesh" is a metaphor for the indwelling sin nature within every human being -- the tendency and preference to sin rather than be righteous. So this spiritual "circumcision" means THE CUTTING OFF of the power of the sin nature over the child of God. Thus Paul Says "Sin shall NOT have dominion over you".

At the same time God does not eradicate the sin nature, which means that every Christian can sin. Not "will" sin but "can" sin. Therefore we have multiple passages in Scripture warning us against the works of the flesh. and exhorting us to "walk in the Spirit". In other words, no Christian can claim to be sinlessly perfect, but must examine himself or herself daily.

You should share your posts a whole lot more! God didn't eradicate the sin-nature-do you have a scripture reference to that?
Johann.

 

[Behold]

We are saved to serve.

When last did you hear a sermon on James?
Johann.

Most cults preach a few verses out of James, to try to teach that ""dead faith"" is dead salvation.
Its one of the epistles that heretics love, along with Hebrews and Matthew.


We are saved to serve, yet we are not servants but "Sons&Daughters" in Christ.

Jesus said..... from now on i call you FRIENDS that you should go forth and bring forth fruit.

That Fruit is not the maturing in the Spirit, .... it is God's Fruit which is Jesus's Bride.
In other words, bring the lost to the Cross and they become the born again, which is the Fruit of the Cross, the literal eternal fruit of the finished work of Jesus on the Cross.
Jesus's blood and death is Holy Seed that produces eternal life in the born again through the power of the Spirit of God.
Every born again believer is the eternal FRUIT of the Holy One who was buried as a Literal Spiritual Seed which brings in a fresh harvest of souls every single day since the Cross of Christ was raised.

If we were in heaven tonight, and that might happen, and Jesus says."" did you bring me any Fruit".....then this is the "your fruit should remain" in John 15 = as the souls we won. Its the people we led to the Lord who REMAIN, just as we are the fruit that REMAINS regarding the person who led us to the Lord = via the seed of the word as the washing of the word of regeneration.

= the preaching of the Cross is the Power of God, unto Salvation

This word of Truth is the "light of the glorious Gospel of Christ that is able to shine into the mind and then the heart of someone who is mind blinded by the devil... (all unbelievers).

 

[Behold]

And you are aware faith without works is dead-yes?

Dead faith is not dead Salvation, as our Salvation is Eternal Life, and that can't "die".

But, we can have a faith Crisis, and also many believers exist in broken faith.

Broken faith is simply..... they stopped believing that Jesus keeps them saved, and now they are trying to do that by confessing sin, and performing works.

= They are on the Cross, hanging by the nails of their own Self Righteousness.

This is a Legalist.
This is a "fallen from Grace" believer.
This is a SELF-Saver.

 

[Behold]

I have proven to you, from scriptures-that this is biblically correct-confess-Present, Active, Subjunctive-ongoing confessions when we miss the mark,

If you are confessing sin, then Jesus didn't die for yours 2000 yrs ago.

"being NOW.... made free from sin, """"

This means "NOW"....

This is understood as "always", as we live in the NOW.... and Salvation is Eternal Life.
Its not Temporary.. Its not based on "if im good enough today, i get to keep it", and "if im not i confess to get it back".

Jesus died once and for all to deal with the sin of the World.
So, that is more then enough to take care of Yours, Johann, and did, 2000 yrs ago.

Jesus is GOD, as a Man on Earth... So, Jesus's shed blood is GOD's blood, and that is why its "the one time ETERNAL sacrifice for sin".

One and DONE.

Jesus has your sin, and died for it, and it didnt come out of the Grave with Him.
Its gone.