The "Millenium Rule" SCRIPTURES ONLY thread

[FaithWillDo]

the Day argument is just silly.

Jesus wasn't referring to a thousand year period the six times He mentions resurrecting people on the Last Day. that would be silly to interpret it that way.

the Peter verse is always misconstrued when the true meaning is obvious right in the verse.

a day (in God's experience) is AS a thousand years (to man), and a thousand years (in God's experience) is AS a day (to man).

it's not saying that every time you see the word day in the Bible it really means a thousand years. diligent students of the Bible understand that clearly. it's just saying that God exists outside of the human confines of time which God created from outside of it where He remains.

the word forever in the Bible means until the end of time, not eternity.

time ends when the earth and all that is in it (the sky and very elements????) are destroyed as that is the 3 dimensional time, space and matter dimension. there is no time where God exists in the realm of spirit.

to take all the end times passages that clearly state that the earth will be completely destroyed and come away with the interpretation that the earth WILL NOT be destroyed is just plain ignoring what scripture plainly teaches many times, in many places - which confirms itself repeatedly in that way.

Jesus says the Last Day many times...

eschatology declares the earth will be destroyed down to its basic elements by fire...

1 Cor. 15 23-24 tells us that THE END comes immediately after Christ returns, which coincides with Matt. 24:29...

end of story.

Dear M3n0r4h,
I've been reading the posts of this thread and I just wanted to inject something here.

The Word of God is written in the spiritual language of Christ. That language teaches us by using spiritual symbols and "types".

When Peter said that a thousand years is like a day, He is saying that the thousand year reign is like the Day of the Lord. The Day of the Lord is when Christ judges mankind. The Elect are judged in this present age before they die. The rest of mankind will be judged in the final age.

During both times of judgment, the Elect will "reign" with Christ in that judgment. That is what the thousand years reign adds to the meaning of the Day of the Lord.

The first time the Elect reign with Christ is presented in Rev ch. 19. The Elect will reign with Christ as a new child of God over their own judgment. That is why when the Elect are judged, they do not experience the wrath of the Lake of Fire. They have already been "born again" PRIOR to their judgment falling and the child of God is not judged.

In the next age, the Elect will reign with Christ over the judgment of the rest of mankind. Those being judged will experience wrath because they are NOT "born again" prior to their judgment falling on them.

Finally, the spiritual terms "earth" and "heaven" are symbols. The Old Earth which will be destroyed by fire (judgment) represents the carnal nature of a person. The New Earth represents the person's new spiritual nature that is governed by the Holy Spirit. The Old Heaven which will be destroyed represents the carnal mind. The New Heaven represents the Mind of Christ.

To understand the teachings of scripture, a person MUST understand the spiritual language of God's Word.

Paul said this:

1Cor 2:13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

The "words" of Christ are "spirit" and they carry meanings that are different from what "man's wisdom teaches". If a person defines Christ's "spirit" words as mankind does, the truth of His teachings is going to remain veiled.

Paul ends the verse by saying that to understand the "spirit" words, we must "compare spiritual things with spiritual.

Here is a very easy example of how this works:

Mat 26:52 Then said Jesus unto him, put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

Does Christ really mean that if you use a sword to kill others, then you must likewise be killed with a sword? Literally, that is what He is saying. However, if we understand this verse literally, that statement can easily be proven to be false. There are countless examples of people who have used violence to kill others but then do not die from that same type of violence - it almost goes without saying.

Is Christ mistaken or is His message something else?

The spiritual language of the Word of God utilizes the Hebrew and Greek languages. However, Christ assigns meanings to the Hebrew and Greek words which are different from how they are commonly defined by mankind. This is what Paul was saying in 1Cor 2:13 which I quoted above.

In Matt 26:52, Christ is using the word SWORD to teach us a spiritual message. To understand what this spiritual symbol represents, we must look at how it is used elsewhere in scripture. In other words, we must compare spiritual things with spiritual.

Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edge sword...

Rev 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp two-edged sword...

From the verses presented above, it is easy to understand that the spiritual word SWORD represents the Word of God who is Christ.

Christ’s hidden spiritual point He is making in Matt 26:52 is that all who take up the Sword (those who are “called out”), must perish (death of the carnal nature) by the Sword. This death is a necessary part of the conversion process which happens when the Word of God (Christ, the Sword) comes to a person and gives them the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and the Baptism of Fire (judgment of the carnal nature):

Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit, and with Fire.

This conversion event is what the Apostles experienced on the Day of Pentecost:

Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of FIRE, and it sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the HOLY SPIRIT, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

In the spiritual language of Christ, the Apostles took up the Sword and then died by the SWORD.

In light of what I presented above, do you understand what this verse below is teaching?

Isa 66:16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.

Like the other verses I’ve presented, this verse above is teaching about the conversion event. And like the other verses, its message is hidden in the spiritual language of Christ. The “many” who are “slain of the Lord” is referring to the people who have just been converted & saved. The old "marred" vessel must be destroyed so that the new vessel can be created:

Jer 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

Spiritual understanding of scripture is further explained and expanded by Isa 28:10-12:

Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and another language (spiritual language) will he speak to this people. 12 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

Psa 119:160 The sum of your word is truth, and every one of your righteous rules endures forever.

If a believer only tries to understand scripture "carnally" (as the world does), they will fall backward and be broken (lose their salvation).

To find life, a believer must spiritually understand the truth of Christ. Only then will Christ (the Word of God) appear.

1Cor 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ. 2 I fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able to receive it, and even now you are still not able; 3 for you are still carnal. For where there are envy, strife, and divisions (different understanding of scripture) among you, are you not carnal and behaving like mere men?

Joe

 

[M3n0r4h]

Dear M3n0r4h,
I've been reading the posts of this thread and I just wanted to inject something here.

The Word of God is written in the spiritual language of Christ. That language teaches us by using spiritual symbols and "types".

When Peter said that a thousand years is like a day, He is saying that the thousand year reign is like the Day of the Lord. The Day of the Lord is when Christ judges mankind. The Elect are judged in this present age before they die. The rest of mankind will be judged in the final age.

During both times of judgment, the Elect will "reign" with Christ in that judgment. That is what the thousand years reign adds to the meaning of the Day of the Lord.

The first time the Elect reign with Christ is presented in Rev ch. 19. The Elect will reign with Christ as a new child of God over their own judgment. That is why when the Elect are judged, they do not experience the wrath of the Lake of Fire. They have already been "born again" PRIOR to their judgment falling and the child of God is not judged.

In the next age, the Elect will reign with Christ over the judgment of the rest of mankind. Those being judged will experience wrath because they are NOT "born again" prior to their judgment falling on them.

Finally, the spiritual terms "earth" and "heaven" are symbols. The Old Earth which will be destroyed by fire (judgment) represents the carnal nature of a person. The New Earth represents the person's new spiritual nature that is governed by the Holy Spirit. The Old Heaven which will be destroyed represents the carnal mind. The New Heaven represents the Mind of Christ.

To understand the teachings of scripture, a person MUST understand the spiritual language of God's Word.

Paul said this:

1Cor 2:13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

The "words" of Christ are "spirit" and they carry meanings that are different from what "man's wisdom teaches". If a person defines Christ's "spirit" words as mankind does, the truth of His teachings is going to remain veiled.

Paul ends the verse by saying that to understand the "spirit" words, we must "compare spiritual things with spiritual.

Here is a very easy example of how this works:

Mat 26:52 Then said Jesus unto him, put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

Does Christ really mean that if you use a sword to kill others, then you must likewise be killed with a sword? Literally, that is what He is saying. However, if we understand this verse literally, that statement can easily be proven to be false. There are countless examples of people who have used violence to kill others but then do not die from that same type of violence - it almost goes without saying.

Is Christ mistaken or is His message something else?

The spiritual language of the Word of God utilizes the Hebrew and Greek languages. However, Christ assigns meanings to the Hebrew and Greek words which are different from how they are commonly defined by mankind. This is what Paul was saying in 1Cor 2:13 which I quoted above.

In Matt 26:52, Christ is using the word SWORD to teach us a spiritual message. To understand what this spiritual symbol represents, we must look at how it is used elsewhere in scripture. In other words, we must compare spiritual things with spiritual.

Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edge sword...

Rev 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp two-edged sword...

From the verses presented above, it is easy to understand that the spiritual word SWORD represents the Word of God who is Christ.

Christ’s hidden spiritual point He is making in Matt 26:52 is that all who take up the Sword (those who are “called out”), must perish (death of the carnal nature) by the Sword. This death is a necessary part of the conversion process which happens when the Word of God (Christ, the Sword) comes to a person and gives them the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and the Baptism of Fire (judgment of the carnal nature):

Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit, and with Fire.

This conversion event is what the Apostles experienced on the Day of Pentecost:

Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of FIRE, and it sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the HOLY SPIRIT, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

In the spiritual language of Christ, the Apostles took up the Sword and then died by the SWORD.

In light of what I presented above, do you understand what this verse below is teaching?

Isa 66:16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.

Like the other verses I’ve presented, this verse above is teaching about the conversion event. And like the other verses, its message is hidden in the spiritual language of Christ. The “many” who are “slain of the Lord” is referring to the people who have just been converted & saved. The old "marred" vessel must be destroyed so that the new vessel can be created:

Jer 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

Spiritual understanding of scripture is further explained and expanded by Isa 28:10-12:

Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and another language (spiritual language) will he speak to this people. 12 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

Psa 119:160 The sum of your word is truth, and every one of your righteous rules endures forever.

If a believer only tries to understand scripture "carnally" (as the world does), they will fall backward and be broken (lose their salvation).

To find life, a believer must spiritually understand the truth of Christ. Only then will Christ (the Word of God) appear.

1Cor 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ. 2 I fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able to receive it, and even now you are still not able; 3 for you are still carnal. For where there are envy, strife, and divisions (different understanding of scripture) among you, are you not carnal and behaving like mere men?

Joe

nice long post, but not one bit of it makes any difference to the topic of a Millennium time period on this physical earth AFTER Christ returns.

you're welcome to embrace that interpretation of one single 'very spiritual' chapter of the Bible, out of almost 1200, if you like, but the fact remains: if you cannot produce adequate support for that concept in any other book of the Bible, your case fails miserably.

if the Pre-Mil interpretation of Rev. 20 is accurate, that means that all the other end times passages found throughout the Bible are false. are you prepared to make that claim and flesh out the case that all end times passages EXCEPT REV 20 are completely false?

well, that's what you're up against.

there is ONE resurrection in scripture. ONE. if you can locate and present book chapter and verse that states there will be a "second" or "third" or "fourth" resurrection from ANYWHERE in the Bible, I will happily concede.

until then, the Pre-Mil false doctrine does not stand up to the full weight of scripture as a whole, no matter who, or how many big name people, teach and declare it.

the Bible is the final word on every Biblical doctrine and it just does not support Pre-Mil doctrine.

 

[FaithWillDo]

nice long post, but not one bit of it makes any difference to the topic of a Millennium time period on this physical earth AFTER Christ returns.

you're welcome to embrace that interpretation of one single 'very spiritual' chapter of the Bible, out of almost 1200, if you like, but the fact remains: if you cannot produce adequate support for that concept in any other book of the Bible, your case fails miserably.

if the Pre-Mil interpretation of Rev. 20 is accurate, that means that all the other end times passages found throughout the Bible are false. are you prepared to make that claim and flesh out the case that all end times passages EXCEPT REV 20 are completely false?

well, that's what you're up against.

there is ONE resurrection in scripture. ONE. if you can locate and present book chapter and verse that states there will be a "second" or "third" or "fourth" resurrection from ANYWHERE in the Bible, I will happily concede.

until then, the Pre-Mil false doctrine does not stand up to the full weight of scripture as a whole, no matter who, or how many big name people, teach and declare it.

the Bible is the final word on every Biblical doctrine and it just does not support Pre-Mil doctrine.

Dear M3n0r4h,
Jesus is the Word of God and His words are "spirit". It is not just one chapter or even just one book which is written in Christ's spiritual language.

Also, the truth of end-time prophecy is grossly misunderstood by the church. The church understands it carnally (physically and outward) but its truth is can only be understood spiritually.

A person will not understand God's Word by defining the symbols as mankind defines them. In scripture, a sword is not a physical sword, the earth is not the physical earth, fire is not a literal fire, water is not physical water nor is a thousand years literal time. These words are all spiritual symbols which have meanings as revealed by the Holy Spirit.

Because the church tries to understand scripture carnally, the church has broken into nearly 2,000 different denominations and sects. For anyone who has a love for the truth, this should be a red flag for them. The churches of this world are places where the "blind lead the blind". They each claim to know the truth, when, in fact, none of them do. They are spiritually blind.

As for "resurrections", there are TWO resurrections mentioned in scripture: the spiritual resurrection and the bodily resurrection.

For the Elect, they are spiritually resurrected before they die. This is the FIRST Resurrection that is mentioned in Rev 20:5. The other resurrection is the bodily resurrection and is the one that is shown in the last portion of chapter 20.

Unless a believer is spiritually resurrected before they die, they will be bodily resurrected to judgment in the Lake of Fire.

Here is where Christ talks about the spiritual resurrection:

John 11:23 Jesus said to her, “Your brother will rise again.” 24 Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.” 25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. 26 “And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

The Elect who experience the spiritual resurrection in their lifetimes will "never die". Martha was understanding Christ's words carnally and could only understand Christ as referring to the bodily resurrection. But Christ's words are spirit and He was teaching her about the spiritual resurrection. After a believer is spiritually resurrected, they will never spiritually die again.

Finally, there is no truth to the common end-time teachings of the church (all of the various teachings).

The end-time prophecies taught in scripture are teaching on the spiritual pathway to salvation that Christ will cause His Elect to travel during their lifetimes. When an Elect believer is converted, the "ends of the ages" come upon them at that time.

1Cor 10:11 Now all these things happened to them as types, and have been written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages are come.

The book of Revelation teaches this same pathway to salvation over and over again. For that reason, the book says to be "blessed" (one of the Elect), a person must keep the sayings of the prophecy.

Rev 22:7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

All the sayings of the prophecy have been happening in the lives of all the Elect since even before John recorded the vision. The prophecies are NOT one-time future events which are still yet to occur. If they were, how could any of the Elect over the last 2000 years "keep" these sayings?

Now look at this verse:

Rev 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

John says the time is "at hand". That means the prophecies of the book were already happening. They are not future world events. The prophecies are spiritual events which must be "kept" by the Elect before they die. If they don't keep the sayings, they will not be saved.

Look at the next to last verse of the book of Revelation:

Rev 22:20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

The church is still waiting for the Second Coming of Christ but I can tell you with 100% certainty, Christ has already come and is coming and will be coming to all of His Elect of this age:

Rev 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne...

Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Rev 4:8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.

For each of the Elect, Christ will come quickly before they die.

His Second Coming is the same event the 120 Jewish Elect experienced on the Day of Pentecost. This is when Christ pours out the Latter Rain, when a believer is converted, when a believer is judged (the thousand years reign) and when the believer experiences the First Resurrection.

The words of Christ are spirit and He uses His spirit words in His spiritual language ("another language", Isa 28:11). To understand these words, Christ must give a believer "eyes that can see" and "ears that can hear". Christ only gives this gift to the believer when He pours out the Latter Rain. This truth is taught in Mark 8:21-25 and in Paul's conversion story.

The church is full of believers who have only been given the Early Rain. The Early Rain is only given to a person in measure and will leave the believer carnal and spiritually blind. In this condition, Satan will quickly deceive them. For this reason, the church became apostate shortly after the deaths of the Apostles. No one was spared from the wolves. For any believer in the apostate church to be saved, Christ must come to them a second time before they die. Otherwise, they will die in their sins and be rejected by Christ upon their bodily resurrection from the grave.

Heb 9:28 So Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

Because the Elect's salvation depends upon it, Christ's second coming is a reoccurring event ("is, was and will be coming"). The time was "at hand" for His Second coming in the 1st century and it still is "at hand" for the Elect who are alive today.

Do you have the faith to believe the verses I posted?

Joe

 

[M3n0r4h]

Dear M3n0r4h,
Jesus is the Word of God and His words are "spirit". It is not just one chapter or even just one book which is written in Christ's spiritual language.

 

[ewq1938]

there is ONE resurrection in scripture. ONE. if you can locate and present book chapter and verse that states there will be a "second" or "third" or "fourth" resurrection from ANYWHERE in the Bible, I will happily concede.

Rev 20 speaks of a group of people who partake of the first resurrection, then it says "the rest of the dead lived not until the thousand years were finished" which is the second resurrection, those who did not live again with the first group.

Besides that, every relevant passage describes two resurrections. One of the saved, always first, and a second one of the unsaved:

Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

First group resurrection: "to everlasting life"
Second group resurrection: "to shame and everlasting contempt"


Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

First group resurrection: "resurrection of life"
Second group resurrection: "the resurrection of damnation"


Acts 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

First group resurrection: "the just"
Second group resurrection: the "unjust"

Take note that in every passage where the resurrection of the saved and unsaved are mentioned that the saved or just is always mentioned first. That's important because it is they that resurrect first! Scripture never deviates in this order. Revelation, John, Daniel and Acts all say the saved first, then the unsaved in that exact order.




What we learn from these verses is that there are two resurrections. One resurrection is to life and the other resurrection is to damnation and contempt. Two resurrections! Never is there a single resurrection of both righteous and unrighteous at the same time.



We also see here that the saved/righteous are resurrected first, and at some time later the unsaved are resurrected and judged.

What these verses do not tell us is how much time is inbetween the two. For that we have to go to Revelation 20 where Christ tells John there is a thousand years inbetween. "the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished". There we have the dead separated into two groups. One who are saved and will be resurrected and judged first, like Dan 12:2 and Joh 5:29 show, and the other group that has to wait until the thousand years are finished before they are resurrected and judged.




Will you concede?

 

[M3n0r4h]

Rev 20 speaks of a group of people who partake of the first resurrection, then it says "the rest of the dead lived not until the thousand years were finished" which is the second resurrection, those who did not live again with the first group.

Besides that, every relevant passage describes two resurrections. One of the saved, always first, and a second one of the unsaved:

Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

First group resurrection: "to everlasting life"
Second group resurrection: "to shame and everlasting contempt"


Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

First group resurrection: "resurrection of life"
Second group resurrection: "the resurrection of damnation"


Acts 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

First group resurrection: "the just"
Second group resurrection: the "unjust"

Take note that in every passage where the resurrection of the saved and unsaved are mentioned that the saved or just is always mentioned first. That's important because it is they that resurrect first! Scripture never deviates in this order. Revelation, John, Daniel and Acts all say the saved first, then the unsaved in that exact order.




What we learn from these verses is that there are two resurrections. One resurrection is to life and the other resurrection is to damnation and contempt. Two resurrections! Never is there a single resurrection of both righteous and unrighteous at the same time.



We also see here that the saved/righteous are resurrected first, and at some time later the unsaved are resurrected and judged.

What these verses do not tell us is how much time is inbetween the two. For that we have to go to Revelation 20 where Christ tells John there is a thousand years inbetween. "the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished". There we have the dead separated into two groups. One who are saved and will be resurrected and judged first, like Dan 12:2 and Joh 5:29 show, and the other group that has to wait until the thousand years are finished before they are resurrected and judged.




Will you concede?

absolutely bogus.

John 5 presents ONE resurrection, with TWO outcomes for all those raised.

period.

you failed to present the specific words from scripture "second resurrection" or third or fourth, etc.

my position stands strong.

 

[ewq1938]

absolutely bogus.

John 5 presents ONE resurrection, with TWO outcomes for all those raised.

I've shown multipel times that there are two resurrections, with Rev 20 being the clearest but of course you avoid addressing that.

 

[M3n0r4h]

I've shown multipel times that there are two resurrections, with Rev 20 being the clearest but of course you avoid addressing that.

you have yet to ever produce any verse that declares a "Second Resurrection."

and you never will.

one physical return of Christ,

one Last Day,

one resurrection,

one The End.

I think we're done here.

 

[Keturah]

1Corinthians 2: .
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the  spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the SPIRIT of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit which is of God; that WE might KNOW the things freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing  spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the MIND OF CHRIST.

---

​

I have a hard time with eschatology bc of all the symbolism, yet I am willing to learn & be taught. I do not believe the Spirit of God will lead us into error if we stay in this....the mind of Christ

 

[FaithWillDo]

1Corinthians 2: .
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the  spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the SPIRIT of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit which is of God; that WE might KNOW the things freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing  spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the MIND OF CHRIST.

---

​

I have a hard time with eschatology bc of all the symbolism, yet I am willing to learn & be taught. I do not believe the Spirit of God will lead us into error if we stay in this....the mind of Christ

Dear Keturah,
Here is a little of the basics. It will not be what you expect or what you have been taught, but I believe in my heart that what I present below is the truth.

Jesus is the Word of God and His words are "spirit" (John 6:63). In Christ's spiritual language, scripture teaches us by using "symbols" and "types".

A person will not understand God's Word by defining the symbols as mankind defines them. In scripture, a sword is not a physical sword, the earth is not the physical earth, fire is not a literal fire, water is not physical water nor is a thousand years literal time. These words are all spiritual symbols which have meanings as revealed by the Holy Spirit.

Because the church tries to understand scripture carnally, the church has broken into nearly 2,000 different denominations and sects. For anyone who has a love for the truth, this should be a red flag for them. The churches of this world are places where the "blind lead the blind" (Mat 15:14). They each claim to know the truth, when, in fact, none of them do. They are spiritually blind.

Also, there is no truth in the common end-time teachings of the church (all of the various teachings).

The end-time prophecies taught in scripture are teaching on the spiritual pathway to salvation that Christ will cause His Elect to travel during their lifetimes. When an Elect believer is converted, the "ends of the ages" come upon them at that time.

1Cor 10:11 Now all these things happened to them as types, and have been written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages are come.

The book of Revelation teaches this same pathway to salvation over and over again. For that reason, the book says to be "blessed" (one of the Elect), a person must keep the sayings of the prophecy.

Rev 22:7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

All the sayings of the prophecy have been happening in the lives of all the Elect since even before John recorded the vision. The prophecies are NOT one-time future events which are still yet to occur. If they were, how could any of the Elect over the last 2000 years "keep" these sayings?

Now look at this verse:

Rev 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

John says the time is "at hand". That means the prophecies of the book were already happening. They are not future world events. The prophecies are spiritual events which must be "kept" by the Elect before they die. If they don't keep the sayings, they will not be saved.

Look at the next to last verse of the book of Revelation:

Rev 22:20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

The church is still waiting for the Second Coming of Christ but I can tell you with 100% certainty, Christ has already come and is coming and will be coming to all of His Elect of this age. The Second Coming of Christ is an individual spiritual event that all the Elect of this age will experience.

Rev 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne...

Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Rev 4:8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.

For each of the Elect, Christ will come quickly before they die.

His Second Coming is the same event the 120 Jewish Elect experienced on the Day of Pentecost. It is when Christ pours out the Latter Rain and heals a believer's spiritual blindness. Following the Latter Rain, the marriage supper of the Lamb begins when Christ feeds the new child of God His truth. The truth the believer receives will cause the Day of the Lord (also the thousand years reign) to commence. After this judgment is complete, the believer will have experienced the First Resurrection (Rev 20:5) and is converted. These events are all spiritual events which happen within the believer. They cannot be witnessed by the carnal world.

As I said earlier, the words of Christ are spirit and He uses His spirit words in His spiritual language ("another language", Isa 28:11). To understand these words, Christ must give a believer "eyes that can see" and "ears that can hear". Christ only gives this gift to the believer when He pours out the Latter Rain. This truth is taught in Mark 8:21-25 and in Paul's conversion experience.

The church is full of believers who have only been given the Early Rain. The Early Rain is only given to a person in measure and will leave the believer carnally minded and spiritually blind. In this condition, Satan will quickly deceive them. For this reason, the church became apostate shortly after the deaths of the Apostles. No one was spared from the wolves (Acts 20:29-31). For any believer in the apostate church to be saved, Christ must come to them a second time before they die. Otherwise, they will die in their sins and be rejected by Christ upon their bodily resurrection from the grave.

Heb 9:28 So Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

Because the Elect's salvation depends upon it, Christ's second coming is a reoccurring event ("is, was and will be coming"). The time was "at hand" for His Second coming in the 1st century and it still is "at hand" for the Elect who are alive today.

The only one-time event that is left to be fulfilled will occur at the end of this age. It is the bodily resurrection from the grave. After the resurrection occurs, the final age will begin.

If you have any specific questions, I would be happy to try and answer them.

Joe

 

[GTW27]

1Corinthians 2: .
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the  spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the SPIRIT of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit which is of God; that WE might KNOW the things freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing  spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the MIND OF CHRIST.

---

​

I have a hard time with eschatology bc of all the symbolism, yet I am willing to learn & be taught. I do not believe the Spirit of God will lead us into error if we stay in this....the mind of Christ

Blessings in Christ Jesus Keturah! It is The Holy Spirit that reveals things in it's season.The book of revelation is written that way for a reason and a purpose. It is designed to be revealed. No man can teach you this, even though countless say they understand. Be led by no man. The Truth of the end times is there, but must be revealed by The Holy Spirit. In some parts it is the opposite of what many think they understand as to fulfill "at an hour you lest expect". Many will be caught off guard, and thus Jesus's warning of these times, are so important. Even many in here will be caught unaware and off guard.So to sum it up, listen not to man on this subject, for some to not know their left foot from their right. Be taught by The Holy Spirit and these things are revealed in it's season as per the will of The Lord.

 

[Keturah]

I read your post @FaithWillDo



Thank you for your offer.......

 

[Keturah]

"Be taught by The Holy Spirit and these things are revealed in it's season as per the will of The Lord."GTW27 #51

I full agree..........

 

[ewq1938]

you have yet to ever produce any verse that declares a "Second Resurrection."

and you never will.

one physical return of Christ,

one Last Day,

one resurrection,

one The End.

I think we're done here.

This is the evidence for that:

Rev 20 speaks of a group of people who partake of the first resurrection, then it says "the rest of the dead lived not until the thousand years were finished" which is the second resurrection, those who did not live again with the first group.

 

[ewq1938]

Two resurrections not one.

Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

First group resurrection: "resurrection of life"
Second group resurrection: "the resurrection of damnation"

 

[M3n0r4h]

This is the evidence for that:

Rev 20 speaks of a group of people who partake of the first resurrection, then it says "the rest of the dead lived not until the thousand years were finished" which is the second resurrection, those who did not live again with the first group.

oops.

now you've really done it.

even if your position had been correct (which it's not), you just did some real damage to your case by blatantly misrepresenting your own piece of evidence.

the verse you are referring to reads thus:

"But the rest of the dead lived not until again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection."
Rev. 20:5

ouch.

no two resurrections,

no mil after Christ.

now we're done.

 

[ewq1938]

oops.

now you've really done it.

even if your position had been correct (which it's not), you just did some real damage to your case by blatantly misrepresenting your own piece of evidence.

Nothing was misrepresented. The fact that some dead live again and the rest don't live again until later proves two resurrections as does this verse:

Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.


Have you counted how many times the word resurrection appears?

 

[M3n0r4h]

Nothing was misrepresented. The fact that some dead live again and the rest don't live again until later proves two resurrections as does this verse:

Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.


Have you counted how many times the word resurrection appears?

it's still obviously just one event. that's what the semi-colon means.

"there will be an event (semi-colon); and here's what happens at said event."

some that come forth will be raised to life, some will be raised to damnation.

have you found any verses that state clearly that there will be a "Second Resurrection"?

 

[ewq1938]

it's still obviously just one event. that's what the semi-colon means.

There are no semi colons in Greek. The scripture still speaks of two resurrections but you will not concede to that fact due to your doctrinal bias.

"there will be an event (semi-colon); and here's what happens at said event."

some that come forth will be raised to life, some will be raised to damnation.

have you found any verses that state clearly that there will be a "Second Resurrection"?

Yes but you deny them despite that they show a second resurrection after a first one.

 

[M3n0r4h]

you will not concede to that fact due to your doctrinal bias.

it's no fact and I'm biased to the extent that I believe and embrace only what scripture teaches.

it doesn't teach two resurrections and it doesn't teach a thousand years on this earth after Christ returns.