The Covering Dynamic

[marks]

You apparently think that there is no reason at all why we would meet Jesus in the air instead of just meeting Him in heaven if that's where we're going to end up.

We haven't gotten that far. Don't presume. And again I'll say, whatever reason we think for what God does, if the Bible doesn't state it, then it remains our own opinions. What matters is the teaching of the Bible.

Do I have my idea of why that is? Yes, in fact I do, but I'm certain we don't agree on what the rapture itself is, and without agreeing first on what it is, getting to the reasons for why it is what it is, will have to wait until then. First things first.

Truly I'm not inclined to continue this converation with you, it takes too many personal turns for my taste.

Much love!

 

[marks]

You are very confused. I'm not asking the question because I don't have an answer to it. I'm asking if YOU have an answer to that question. And I see that you don't.

I had written . . .

marks said:

I don't actually think it's a legitamate question. I mean, it's OK to ask, OK to wonder, but, if you don't know the reason, that's not evidence against the concept. The cross of Christ is foolishness to the Greeks, maybe the rapture is foolishness to you?

I didn't say whether anyone did or didn't have an answer, I said, well, in other words, that's irrelevant, being personal opinions about God's unrevealed motives.

So in determining whether or not the rapture is what you think, or what I think, those things are just a part of what each of us think, and therefore will have to likewise be determined by Scripture.

Because if Scripture actually teaches what I or you think, then the other just may need to also change some of these other, personal ideas.

It was not intended as a personal insult. Please stop being so sensitive on a forum where debate is expected. My point was that you were confused about what I was saying, which is true. It happens. It's nothing personal. And then I proceeded to explain what you were confused about and showed you what I meant.

Hopefully you understand better what I was saying. And there isn't any need to fob off my reply as some presumed emotionalism.

When you say, "your confused", perhaps I am and perhaps I'm not, its still off topic. If you think I have the wrong idea, then share the right idea. Just stay on topic. Neither you nor I are the topic of this thead. And all this metacommunication takes a lot of time away from the discussion of Scripture. I don't mind it if we can reach a better level of discussion!

Much love!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

We haven't gotten that far. Don't presume. And again I'll say, whatever reason we think for what God does, if the Bible doesn't state it, then it remains our own opinions. What matters is the teaching of the Bible.

Do I have my idea of why that is? Yes, in fact I do, but I'm certain we don't agree on what the rapture itself is, and without agreeing first on what it is, getting to the reasons for why it is what it is, will have to wait until then. First things first.

Truly I'm not inclined to continue this converation with you, it takes too many personal turns for my taste.

This is a place where people debate things. It's never pleasant when people disagree with you, so if that's something that bothers you so much, then maybe this is not the kind of thing for you. We're not exchanging gifts here, we're debating scripture. There's no reason to be so sensitive and take everything so personally.

Anyway, I'd like to discuss what the rapture is if you're willing, but it's up to you. I would assume we at least agree that it is described in 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17? We could start there if you want to discuss it.

 

[marks]

What passages do you think post-tribs are not reading for EXACTLY what they say?

I'm out of time today, but we can start through them if you like. Mostly it centers around what happens when Jesus comes in power and glory and shortly afterword. Others in the Revelation, like I said, we can start through them if you actually want to.

Much love!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I had written . . .

marks said:

I don't actually think it's a legitamate question. I mean, it's OK to ask, OK to wonder, but, if you don't know the reason, that's not evidence against the concept. The cross of Christ is foolishness to the Greeks, maybe the rapture is foolishness to you?

I didn't say whether anyone did or didn't have an answer, I said, well, in other words, that's irrelevant, being personal opinions about God's unrevealed motives.

So in determining whether or not the rapture is what you think, or what I think, those things are just a part of what each of us think, and therefore will have to likewise be determined by Scripture.

Because if Scripture actually teaches what I or you think, then the other just may need to also change some of these other, personal ideas.



Hopefully you understand better what I was saying. And there isn't any need to fob off my reply as some presumed emotionalism.

When you say, "your confused", perhaps I am and perhaps I'm not, its still off topic. If you think I have the wrong idea, then share the right idea. Just stay on topic. Neither you nor I are the topic of this thead. And all this metacommunication takes a lot of time away from the discussion of Scripture. I don't mind it if we can reach a better level of discussion!

Much love!

I'll try not to say certain buzzwords that trigger you, but I shouldn't have to walk on eggshells when talking to you. Can you at least try to not be so sensitive? I just want to discuss these things and don't intend to make it personal. Just know that. I may slip up here and there on that, but just know it's not my intention.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I'm out of time today, but we can start through them if you like. Mostly it centers around what happens when Jesus comes in power and glory and shortly afterword. Others in the Revelation, like I said, we can start through them if you actually want to.

Sure, I'm up for that. You can get it started wherever you want.

 

[marks]

It's never pleasant when people disagree with you,

Oh not so! There are many . . . just ask @David in NJ , we completely disagree on this point, and quite pleasantly! And we have great discussions on other things also, some we agree, some maybe not, and sometimes we are just using different words but meaning the same things, and it's great when we can sort through that! We can even be pointed with each other, because we aren't pointed AT each other. Nothing is personal. There are others, and we should be that way.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I'll try not to say certain buzzwords that trigger you, but I shouldn't have to walk on eggshells when talking to you. Can you at least try to not be so sensitive?

Oh come on! If this is what you think, nevermind. If we are going to be able to talk, we have to be able to talk, and you keep going on about how sensitive I am, you have walk on eggshells. Because I said you were making things personal in saying I was confused, but you've been talking this way a long time now. And I'm sorry but that's the way it is. All these personal comments are simply off topic, distracting, make a poor showing. And as I speak this out - call you on it - you deflect to my "sensitivity". Before you deflected to my "confusion".

I understand.

Much love!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Oh not so! There are many . . . just ask @David in NJ , we completely disagree on this point, and quite pleasantly!

Well, for a little while there that was true and then...not so much. You started taking things a bit personally after awhile. I read all of it, so I know I'm not just making this up.

And we have great discussions on other things also, some we agree, some maybe not, and sometimes we are just using different words but meaning the same things, and it's great when we can sort through that! We can even be pointed with each other, because we aren't pointed AT each other. Nothing is personal. There are others, and we should be that way.

Well, I'm not trying to make anything personal. You can choose to believe that or not. I will at least make an effort to be more gentle with you from now on since you're quite sensitive.

 

[marks]

So have I. And I'm sure so has David in NJ. Yet, he and I disagree with you completely on the timing of the rapture. So, are we praying and studying harder than you or are you praying and studying harder than us? Or is there more to it than that? I vote for the latter.

A big part has to do with how we read the Bible.

Let me ask you, are the return of Christ and gathering of the chosen, and the sheep/goats judgment exactly as narrated by Jesus?

He comes (to earth) in power and glory. The angels gather the chosen. He takes His throne. The nations are gathered, and judged according to how they did or didn't care for Jesus' brothers. The righteous are received into the kingdom, the wicked are sent to eternal punishment.

Exactly as written in Matthew?

We could start there.

Much love!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Oh come on! If this is what you think, nevermind. If we are going to be able to talk, we have to be able to talk, and you keep going on about how sensitive I am, you have walk on eggshells.

You are. I haven't said anything outlandish or overly personal, but you keep taking offense.

Because I said you were making things personal in saying I was confused, but you've been talking this way a long time now. And I'm sorry but that's the way it is.

And you never have? Hmmm. Anyway, I'm telling you that I will make more of an effort to not make things personal now since I don't want that to get in the way of the discussion. I'm fine with that.

All these personal comments are simply off topic, distracting, make a poor showing. And as I speak this out - call you on it - you deflect to my "sensitivity". Before you deflected to my "confusion".

I didn't mean to imply that you are confused about everything and are in a general state of confusion. I just meant that you were confused about what I was saying. Which you were. I have been confused about what you're saying sometimes, too. It's no big deal. It happens.

 

[marks]

And you never have?

No, I don't address people that way. It's worthless. And if I come to realize at any time that's the way my mind is working, I reject it as immediately as I can. But it's easier when you come to understand between flesh and spirit, and become more practiced. I'm not trying to say anything here, the fact is that maybe I have, and maybe will, and not realizing it, who knows? But I don't think that's how I should be. If I'm not here bringing a gift that can be received with grace, what am I doing here?

Well, to be completely honest, sometimes occupying myself on a slow day. Rapture threads can be good for that. But of course we get drawn in, and here we are. That's how it's supposed to be, and that now we are to build each other up, by serving each other in love. I speak to myself in this just the same! We need to stay focused. Anyway this is how I see it. I think that's the high road, and if we're God's kids, isn't that where we should be?

James 3:13 KJV
Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.

I've really got to go now though, and I'm looking forward to continuing with you tomorrow!

Much love!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

A big part has to do with how we read the Bible.

Let me ask you, are the return of Christ and gathering of the chosen, and the sheep/goats judgment exactly as narrated by Jesus?

He comes (to earth) in power and glory. The angels gather the chosen. He takes His throne. The nations are gathered, and judged according to how they did or didn't care for Jesus' brothers. The righteous are received into the kingdom, the wicked are sent to eternal punishment.

Exactly as written in Matthew?

We could start there.

I will start then by pointing out that it doesn't say He comes to earth. If you disagree, then show me where it says that.

Also, the gathering doesn't take place after He comes to judge. All people will have already been gathered before He sits on His throne to judge. What takes place after He sits to judge is not the gathering, but rather the separation of all people into two groups that are called the sheep (representing the righteous/saved) and the goats (representing the wicked/lost).

Feel free to only address the first point for now (whenever you have time - no rush) and come back to the other one later if you want. I just wanted to make the second point while it was fresh in my mind.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No, I don't address people that way. It's worthless.

You have. You're just not remembering it.

And if I come to realize at any time that's the way my mind is working, I reject it as immediately as I can. But it's easier when you come to understand between flesh and spirit, and become more practiced. I'm not trying to say anything here, the fact is that maybe I have, and maybe will, and not realizing it, who knows? But I don't think that's how I should be. If I'm not here bringing a gift that can be received with grace, what am I doing here?

Well, to be completely honest, sometimes occupying myself on a slow day. Rapture threads can be good for that. But of course we get drawn in, and here we are. That's how it's supposed to be, and that now we are to build each other up, by serving each other in love. I speak to myself in this just the same! We need to stay focused. Anyway this is how I see it.

I've really got to go now though, and I'm looking forward to continuing with you tomorrow!

That's all fine and good. But, at the same time, this is not a forum to discuss how we're going to serve Christ together, it's a forum to discuss end times doctrine. And we're all passionate about it. If we see what we believe is a false teaching being promoted, it's hard to just sugarcoat that, you know? But, at the same time, we have to keep this in perspective. It's not a salvation issue, even though there's a post-trib on another thread trying to make it as if it is. You'll never see me doing that.

Anyway, we can continue this tomorrow sometime. Or whenever.

 

[David in NJ]

You aren't seeing what I'm saying.

"People who disagree with ____________ do so because they've chosen to be "covered". Just anyone can say that about just anyone.

Much love!

marks,

We are called to "live by every word spoken by God" .

This is a very easy FIX = all we need to do is believe God at His word and reject any source that denies His words.

You have said tha you studied this for many years = please post the 'pre-trib rapture' declaration that you see = ty

 

[David in NJ]

@marks @Spiritual Israelite @Keturah

Let us continue to walk in peace and the Holy Spirit, not give ourselves to personal jabs and remember that we are joyfully bound together in His Grace and Mercy.

Good Nite Brothers n Sisters in Christ

 

[Timtofly]

Job 21:30 - “That the wicked is reserved to the day of destruction? they shall be brought forth to the day of wrath.”

GWT after the Day of the Lord.

2 Peter 3:1-7
Beloved, I now write to you this second epistle (in both of which I stir up your pure minds by way of reminder), that you may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us, the apostles of the Lord and Savior, knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.” For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water, by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water. But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

Noah's Flood destroyed the earth and changed the heavens. We now have rain and seasons according to the new earth after Noah left the ark.

Enoch was still taken away 600 years before the Flood. Taken where?

 

[Timtofly]

Can you tell me where a description of all of the chaos and destruction that would result from millions of people disappearing at once can be found in scripture? Surely, if such an event was going to happen, it would be described in scripture.

That is not what people will be concerned about. 2 Peter 3:10 happens at the same time. Revelation 6:12-17 happens at the same time. Matthew 24:29-31 is the same event. The 5th Seal describes the rapture and putting on white robes for the entire church at the Second Coming. 1 John 3:2-3

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure."

We are told to always be ready, since it will happen like a thief in the night. There will be plenty of chaos and destruction when the rapture happens.

 

[David in NJ]

GWT after the Day of the Lord.



Noah's Flood destroyed the earth and changed the heavens. We now have rain and seasons according to the new earth after Noah left the ark.

Enoch was still taken away 600 years before the Flood. Taken where?

i am not sure that Job 21:30 is the GTW but could be

Proverbs 30
There is a generation that curses its father,
And does not bless its mother.
There is a generation that is pure in its own eyes,
Yet is not washed from its filthiness.
There is a generation—oh, how lofty are their eyes!
And their eyelids are lifted up.
There is a generation whose teeth are like swords,
And whose fangs are like knives,
To devour the poor from off the earth,
And the needy from among men.

"And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness."

Enoch was taken by God and he will return to finish his witness against the fallen angels = Revelation
Elijah will join him.

These are the only two Prophets of God that were taken off the earth 'alive'.

 

[Timtofly]

'Covered' minds due to the weaknesses of man, even when Saved by the Blood, is accurate and found throughout NT Scripture.

A "covered" mind is all those claiming the sons of God are angels. "Covered" with the carnel imagination of humans just making stuff up.