The Covering Dynamic

[marks]

Well, if you mean "unrenewed" as not 'saved' in 1 Cor ch1, i would have to disagree.

No, what I'm talking about is that first we are reborn, but our minds often think the old way. So God renews our minds to think the new way. But it doesn't always happen at once, I think for the great majority of us this happens over the course of many years. Everyone is different, so I don't what to get too rigid on this.

So you can have a Christian - born again - but who is trying to understand the Bible in a fleshy way with fleshy thoughts in a fleshy mind.

Much love!

 

[David in NJ]

Amen! Yes, I'll agree with you, that when we start putting weight into our human conjecture/speculation, that prevents us from seeing truth sometimes, since we are looking the other way.

Is that along the lines of what you are expressing in this thread?

Much love!

100% @marks

This thread on 'covering(s)' is a Biblical/Scriptural perspective on how/why/when/where these 'coverings' take place.

The first 'covering' upon mankind took place in the Garden.

Yet, it seems as though there were an 'uncovering' since they ate from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.

In Reality, what was uncovered led to darkness and separation from God.

IMPORTANT NOTE: Adam and Eve sought to 'cover' their nakedness before God = God rejected that covering.

God, in fact, did cover Adam and Eve with animal skins and in so doing demonstrated the first sacrifice to them for their sins.

 

[David in NJ]

No, what I'm talking about is that first we are reborn, but our minds often think the old way. So God renews our minds to think the new way. But it doesn't always happen at once, I think for the great majority of us this happens over the course of many years. Everyone is different, so I don't what to get too rigid on this.

So you can have a Christian - born again - but who is trying to understand the Bible in a fleshy way with fleshy thoughts in a fleshy mind.

Much love!

AGREE

 

[marks]

Real People that give us allegorical prophecy(s) of the 1st Coming of Messiah and the Second Coming

#1 - Abraham/Isaac/Jacob = Gospel

#2 - Joseph = 1st and 2nd Comings

OK, so not that narrative prophecies are to be taken as allegorical, rather that there are events and things in the Bible that show an allegory for something to come.

Like the unnamed servant leaving Isaac's home with his father to go get a bride for Isaac. The servant takes promises and gifts to the appointed land, and brings back a bride. Isaac sees her, goes to meet her, and back they go to be wed.

Like the Holy Spirit coming to regenerate us, and off we go to be joined to Jesus. Like that?

What I'd call "types".

Much love!

 

[marks]

100% @marks

This thread on 'covering(s)' is a Biblical/Scriptural perspective on how/why/when/where these 'coverings' take place.

The first 'covering' upon mankind took place in the Garden.

Yet, it seems as though there were an 'uncovering' since they ate from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.

In Reality, what was uncovered led to darkness and separation from God.

IMPORTANT NOTE: Adam and Eve sought to 'cover' their nakedness before God = God rejected that covering.

God, in fact, did cover Adam and Eve with animal skins and in so doing demonstrated the first sacrifice to them for their sins.

OK, I'm tracking with you!

The covering reflecting when we are not being open and honest and humble?

Much love!

 

[David in NJ]

OK, so not that narrative prophecies are to be taken as allegorical, rather that there are events and things in the Bible that show an allegory for something to come.

Like the unnamed servant leaving Isaac's home with his father to go get a bride for Isaac. The servant takes promises and gifts to the appointed land, and brings back a bride. Isaac sees her, goes to meet her, and back they go to be wed.

Like the Holy Spirit coming to regenerate us, and off we go to be joined to Jesus. Like that?

What I'd call "types".

Much love!

marks,

the WHOLE Gospel is in Abraham/Isaac/Jacob

the 'unamed' servant(Holy Spirit) of Abraham(Father) goes out in search of the Bride for Isaac(Son)

this servant has Bridal Gifts that are only for the woman who accepts the Invitation to be Married to the Son

Allegorical story/prophecy of how the Father calls us thru the Holy Spiirt to the Son and for us who accept His Hand in Marriage(New Covenant) HE bestows 'Gifts' of the Spirit to His Bride.

 

[David in NJ]

OK, I'm tracking with you!

The covering reflecting when we are not being open and honest and humble?

Much love!

If, we allow the LORD to remove the coverings of sin/error/confusion/religion/bad habits/etc then God covers us in Grace and Truth.

So it is a good thing to be 'uncovered' so that we can be covered with the Truth, which is our sanctification = John ch17

Problems occur when we believe our coverings are sufficient = religion, human intellectualism, respect of persons

Notice in this Proverb that their is a 'promise' of a protective 'covering' AND a threat of exposure in our own 'covering'

Every word of God is flawless;
He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
Do not add to His words,
lest He rebuke you and prove you a liar.
Proverbs 30:5-6

 

[marks]

If, we allow the LORD to remove the coverings of sin/error/confusion/religion/bad habits/etc then God covers us in Grace and Truth.

I'd sooner say we receive grace and truth when we receive Jesus Christ, and then the Lord goes to work in us. We can cooperate or not, but He will have His way, that's what receiving Christ is, it's becoming His spirit child, and He will always parent us.

Much love!

 

[David in NJ]

I'd sooner say we receive grace and truth when we receive Jesus Christ, and then the Lord goes to work in us. We can cooperate or not, but He will have His way, that's what receiving Christ is, it's becoming His spirit child, and He will always parent us.

Much love!

Grace and Truth are active before we come to Christ = "the goodness of God leads a man to repentance"

Is not the moment that Christ is revealed to us via the Gospel that we SEE(uncovering) our need for HIM.........

"And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account."
Hebrews 4:13

 

[marks]

Do you really think that if someone is walking with the Lord, and studies His Word, but doesn't believe in a pre-trib rapture, that they would not be a part of it because they didn't believe in it? I thought you guys thought that all Christians would be taken. So are you saying that if someone doesn't believe in a pretrib rapture, they are going to have to suffer here through tribulation, and that the pretrib teaching is essential to become a Christian in the first place?
I thought it was "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved", not believe on the pretrib rapture as well as the Lord, and thou shalt be saved.

The rapture will be for all who are "in Christ", no other qualifications given.

Much love!

 

[marks]

God never gave anyone the authority to add 'human conjecture' upon His words = this is where/how coverings are formed over us.

Could this include you? Do you have "coverings"? Isn't there a better word, since the Bible doesn't speak that way?

Much love!

 

[David in NJ]

Could this include you? Do you have "coverings"? Isn't there a better word, since the Bible doesn't speak that way?

Much love!

i said from the beginning that everyone has 'coverings' = some are of God and most are of man/sin/religion

 

[David in NJ]

Could this include you? Do you have "coverings"? Isn't there a better word, since the Bible doesn't speak that way?

Much love!

marks,

Stay on the Path of Righteousness = Gospel spoken thru Abraham/Isaac/Jacob

If 'pre-trib rapture were of God then God would of spoken it in the lives of Abraham/Isaac/Jacob.

The 1st and 2nd Comings of the Lord are in Abraham/Isaac/Jacob = but there is not a single word spoken of 'pre-trib rapture'.

 

[marks]

marks,

Stay on the Path of Righteousness = Gospel spoken thru Abraham/Isaac/Jacob

If 'pre-trib rapture were of God then God would of spoken it in the lives of Abraham/Isaac/Jacob.

The 1st and 2nd Comings of the Lord are in Abraham/Isaac/Jacob = but there is not a single word spoken of 'pre-trib rapture'.

No, there wouldn't be.

And besides . . . selecting a portion of the Bible, and declaring that since it doesn't mention such and such, then it's not true, that's making an argument from silence. It's the same thing as proving a negative. It doesn't work, it's not valid.

Much love!

 

[marks]

i said from the beginning that everyone has 'coverings' = some are of God and most are of man/sin/religion

What would you say would be the Biblical terminology for this idea of "coverings" preventing people from true understanding?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Problems occur when we believe our coverings are sufficient = religion, human intellectualism, respect of persons

Yes, thinking we are sufficient ourselves is the wrong way to go, for sure!

Much love!

 

[marks]

If 'pre-trib rapture were of God then God would of spoken it in the lives of Abraham/Isaac/Jacob.

Can you show me the gentile church in Abraham/Isaac/Jacob?

Much love!

 

[David in NJ]

What would you say would be the Biblical terminology for this idea of "coverings" preventing people from true understanding?

Much love!

Biblical terminology of 'coverings' begins in Genesis when Adam & Eve sinned.

"For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened."

The Truth of 'coverings' over the minds of both the unsaved and saved is everywhere in the Holy Scriptures beginning in Genesis.

"It is the glory of God to conceal a matter,
But the glory of kings is to search out a matter." - Psalm 25:2

So it was, when the man of God saw her afar off, that he said to his servant Gehazi, “Look, the Shunammite woman! Please run now to meet her, and say to her, ‘Is it well with you? Is it well with your husband? Is it well with the child?’ ”
And she answered, “It is well.” Now when she came to the man of God at the hill, she caught him by the feet, but Gehazi came near to push her away. But the man of God said, “Let her alone; for her soul is in deep distress, and the Lord has hidden it from me, and has not told me.” 2 Kings 4:25-27

Then He said to them, “O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken! Ought not the Christ to have suffered these things and to enter into His glory?” And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself.

Now we see but a dim reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known. - 1 Cor 13:12

 

[David in NJ]

Can you show me the gentile church in Abraham/Isaac/Jacob?

Much love!

ABSOLUTELY

#1 - there is no such thing as "the gentile church" = Galatians ch3 and Ephesians ch2

Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?— just as Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 7Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.

For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near. For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.

Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, 21in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit

#2 - God preached the Gospel to Abraham = Father of Nations = Before the Law = Gospel of Grace = Job(Gentile)

#3 - As Isaac is the promised seed by God to Abraham & Sarah so is Christ is the Promised SEED to Jew & Gentile = One Church

#4 - Jacob is representative of the Holy Spirit which is the BIRTH of Israel = Penetcost/Bride/HS Anointing/Gifts

#5 - Foreknowledge of God = Allegorical Gospel of Grace = Abraham/Isaac/Jacob = to the Jew first and also to the Gentile

 

[David in NJ]

Can you show me the gentile church in Abraham/Isaac/Jacob?

Much love!

marks,

i am so glad you asked this question as it is a perfect example of a man-made covering over the mind.

There is no such thing as a 'gentile church' before God = see Post 79