Saved by obeying the commandments?

[Behold]

You know I don't believe that or teach that. I don't sin, or even believe in sinning "so grace may abound" so why accuse me of that?

You do believe and teach you can't lose your salvation. That seems like OSAS to me! The person in Matthew 7:21-23 was obviously filled with the Spirit, thus born again so how is he still practicing lawlessness and in the end Jesus does not accept him?

Address Matthew 7:21-23. Don't side-step and ignore this important question, if not for me, then for yourself and Rita!

I did already.
also..
I didnt say you are teaching that "we sin so that grace my abound"

I posted that in Paul's day, they said that to him.
And these days, the accusation is now revised... they changed the bumper sticker. to..

OSAS
License to sin.

Also..
"""""" but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven"""""

The "will" of God that you believe in Jesus, whom God sent" .

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Poor thing.
I understand you believe as you wish. Talking down to me doesn't work to make your point.
Have a good day.

Are you talking about me asking if you understand?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

OSAS, is a cult idea.. Its not created by a Beleiver.
It was created and used against Paul, when they who created it said...."you are teaching that we are to sin so that Grace will abound".

The most recent revision is..

OSAS or "license to sin".

So, its s TRICK of the DEVIL , this idea.. .and what it does is try to make you believe that if you Trust in Jesus to keep you saved, then you are believing you have a license to sin.
So, that idea causes the people it deceives to have a real issue with God's Grace.. and that is why the DEVIL created it.
That's its purpose. = To Subvert your faith in Christ, or as Jude teaches... teaching that Grace is Licentiousness, so that you'll be confused about GRACE, and stay confused.

Also the Will of God, is that "all will be saved".

1 Timothy 2:3-4

3This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior,

4 who desires ALL people to be saved

Not the "pre-destined", but ALL people.

Or as Jesus said... "if i be lifted up (the Cross) i will draw ALL to me

or as John 3:16 teaches.... For God so love the World". That He gave Jesus.

To who?

THE WORLD.... that's ALL, in those other 2 verses.

I did already.

Where did you address Matthew 7:21-23? In the last month? Could you repeat it? I really want to know because it has always bothered me. So I want to ask someone who believes we cannot lose our salvation.

 

[friend of]

What was the sobering thought for me was the realization that I had already gone to church for 30 years! But not until 1977 was I born again. That means that most people in today's church may not be saved

On the contrary. There are plenty of false teachers of the charismatic variety that think they cast out demons on a regular basis. Christ is surely speaking to them in Matt 7

 

[1stCenturyLady]

On the contrary. There are plenty of false teachers of the charismatic variety that think they cast out demons on a regular basis. Christ is surely speaking to them in Matt 7

Come on. I think you would know if something was a miracle or not. This verse is NOT talking against the gifts of the Spirit, or Pentecostalism or Charismatics. It is talking about SIN. And not the mild kind of sin, but sins unto DEATH! Lawlessness!

 

[friend of]

Come on. I think you would know if something was a miracle or not. This verse is NOT talking against the gifts of the Spirit, or Pentecostalism or Charismatics. It is talking about SIN. And not the mild kind of sin, but sins unto DEATH! Lawlessness

It's talking about people who are deluded into believing that they're performing miracles. What makes this sin is the fact that it's not real miracles and it deludes people

 

[1stCenturyLady]

It's talking about people who are deluded into believing that they're performing miracles. What makes this sin is the fact that it's not real miracles and it deludes people

What are you, some kind of cessationist who doesn't believe in the New Covenant and are against the gifts of the Spirit in it? Look at the context. Jesus said, "YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS." Not gifts of the Spirit!

You do know that nothing changes or ceases during the period of a covenant don't you? That's basic Covenants 101! He mentions gifts because only the born again of the Spirit are given gifts, so this is talking about the born again, not deluded people. I want to know why they are SINNING, not operating the gifts of the Spirit which are never taken back once given.

 

[friend of]

What are you, some kind of cessationist who doesn't believe in the New Covenant and are against the gifts of the Spirit in it? Look at the context. Jesus said, "YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS." Not gifts of the Spirit!

You do know that nothing changes or ceases during the period of a covenant don't you? That's basic Covenants 101! He mentions gifts because only the born again of the Spirit are given gifts, so this is talking about the born again, not deluded people. I want to know why they are SINNING, not operating the gifts of the Spirit which are never taken back once given.

Because they're deluded into thinking they're casting out demons when they are only fooling themselves? I'm not talking about Christians who genuinely cast out demons in others. I'm just saying, there are a lot of people out there that think they're casting out demons when it's just their imagination. They make stuff up, and Jesus calls them on it by telling them they were practicing lawlessness (deception) deceiving their following.

For someone who claims to constantly be hearing from God, I would have expected better reading comprehension from you (no offense).

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Because they're deluded into thinking they're casting out demons when they are only fooling themselves? I'm not talking about Christians who genuinely cast out demons in others. I'm just saying, there are a lot of people out there that think they're casting out demons when it's just their imagination. They make stuff up, and Jesus calls them on it by telling them they were practicing lawlessness (deception) deceiving their following.

For someone who claims to constantly be hearing from God, I would have expected better reading comprehension from you (no offense).

You don't understand what lawlessness is? That is what Jesus is talking about. That should be easy for you seeing as you have reading comprehension.

 

[Ritajanice]

You know I don't believe that or teach that. I don't sin, or even believe in sinning "so grace may abound" so why accuse me of that?

You do believe and teach you can't lose your salvation. That seems like OSAS to me! The person in Matthew 7:21-23 was obviously filled with the Spirit, thus born again so how is he still practicing lawlessness and in the end Jesus does not accept him?

Address Matthew 7:21-23. Don't side-step and ignore this important question, if not for me, then for yourself and Rita!

Sister, my question to you is.

How can you be un- birthed from the Holy Spirit?

Being Birthed in the Spirit is “ PERMANENT “...only a Born Again can see the Kingdom of God....even though we are on this earth, we have been birthed into the Kingdom of God..we are in the supernatural realm./ spiritual realm.....I LOVE being in his spiritual realm.....it’s AMAZING!!!.......Look at God’s creation....mind blowing.....Praise God!....

We are in the world, but, we are not of the world @Behold ...

My testimony, opinion and belief...a Born Again/can NEVER be un- birthed.

​

John 6:39 ►

​

Context Crossref Comment Greek Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. New Living Translation And this is the will of God, that I should not lose even one of all those he has given me, but that I should raise them up at the last day. English Standard Version And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. Berean Standard Bible And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall lose none of those He has given Me, but raise them up at the last day.

Romans 8:9​

​

New International Version​

​

​

9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ

◄ John 3:6 ►

​

Context Crossref Comment Greek Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. New Living Translation Humans can reproduce only human life, but the Holy Spirit gives birth to spiritual life. English Standard Version That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Berean Standard Bible Flesh is born of flesh, but spirit is born of the Spirit.

 

[Behold]

Where did you address Matthew 7:21-23? In the last month? Could you repeat it? I really want to know because it has always bothered me. So I want to ask someone who believes we cannot lose our salvation.

''Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. '''


We know that Salvation is not by works...its by Grace through Faith.

"Faith is counted".

"no working allowed by us" to be saved , because all the work has all been completed 2000 yrs ago as the finished work of Jesus on the Cross.

So, anytime you read a verse that is talking about working for salvation, that is dealing with the "time of the gentiles".... you are not reading a verse that is talking about the Cross of Christ.
The Cross of Christ is the only WAY to God, Heaven, or the KOG.

Verses written before Jesus was Crucified have to be realized through the Light of the Cross.
So, doing the will of God so that Salvation is attained is always the same in the "time of the Gentiles".

You also have to be careful not to apply "Jesus only talking to the House of Israel" verse to the Body of Christ, as that is one big confusion, and many are confused, thereby.

"faith is counted". "justification by faith".. = "The Gospel of the Grace of God". "Paul's Gospel". = Time of the Gentiles.

This changes in the Trib/Grt Trib, because the Gospel of the Grace of God that is from Paul the Gentile apostle that is given in the time of the Gentiles, does not continue into the Trib.
That is Jesus speaking prophetically.
This is why you find Jesus in Matt 24 saying. "endure to the end".
See that?
We dont do that now, as now, "Faith is counted as righteousness" without works or deeds of the Law.
But once that Trib Hits this world, The Gospel of Grace Departs and "enduring to the end" becomes a requirment.

Be glad you are not in the Trib/Grt Trib.

 

[Behold]

I Never Knew You​

21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven,

The way to understand why those people who were fake believers, and were told to get out, is very simple, but you have to SEE it.

Let me explain it.

In the Bible, God says that "a man shall leave Father and Mother and "cleave" to his wife"

That is "sexual union"... The Bible refers to this as " becoming one flesh"... "flesh joining flesh".

This is how you KINOW your mate.
"sexual union".. becoming "one Flesh"... "flesh joining flesh"... = Sexual Intercourse. = To KNOW THEM.. is how the Bible explains it.

Now, this is more then just physical... As the woman has a situation, whereby as a Virgin she can bleed when engaged with her husband, regarding physical union.
That is not an accident.. That is God's blood covenant being established between the husband and wife..
See that?
All things with God are very interesting, as He's very covenant minded.. "blood covenant" is marriage, is salvation... etc, etc.

So, that is one of the reasons a woman should remain a virgin, as to become in " blood covenant" with someone that is just a causal sexual encounter is not the best idea.

Just remember that this sexual union, is to KNOW the person... that is to "KNOW THEM". The bible teaches.

So, Jesus has shed His BLOOD for His BRIDE.
See that?
They are now in UNION, Spiritually, ... See that?
Notice how that is more then just a little symbolic, when you consider the MARRIAGE Union between Husband and Bride.

See, the Bride of Christ is already married to Jesus. He's not coming back to marry her... He already did with his Blood Atonement.
He's coming back to take here home with Him.

Are you following me, ??????
Understand, so far?

So, Jesus 'KNOWS" His Bride. See it? They have become "IN Christ " and "'ONE with God".
See that UNION?
We are in Christ and IN God and they are in US.
That is God and Christ KNOWING the Bride who is the BODY of Christ.
See that?

So, God and Christ are in Union, spiritually, with the Born again... = They KNOW US..... and we are 'IN Christ' and "ONE with God".
We KNOW them.

They do not KNOW an unbeliever, because the unbeliever is not the BRIDE they KNOW based on Born again = Spiritual UNION.

Understand?

Now look at this verse"..

"depart from ME..... i .... never ....KNEW YOU"...

Christ does not KNOW them, because He has no Spiritual UNION with them... they are not BORN AGAIN.

 

[friend of]

You don't understand what lawlessness is? That is what Jesus is talking about. That should be easy for you seeing as you have reading comprehension.

I find this response interesting. Instead of turning the other cheek when someone insults you, you return the insult. That's not being like Christ. To be unlike Christ is to sin. I think if you were to be honest with yourself right now, you'd have no choice but to come to the conclusion that you're guilty of sin. That's how easy it is to fall short. Especially when we compare our sinful selves to the sinless Jesus.

 

[Jim B]

It's talking about people who are deluded into believing that they're performing miracles. What makes this sin is the fact that it's not real miracles and it deludes people

Obviously you have not witnessed a real miracle. Either that or your lack of faith prevented you from seeing what actually happened.

 

[Jim B]

Because they're deluded into thinking they're casting out demons when they are only fooling themselves? I'm not talking about Christians who genuinely cast out demons in others. I'm just saying, there are a lot of people out there that think they're casting out demons when it's just their imagination. They make stuff up, and Jesus calls them on it by telling them they were practicing lawlessness (deception) deceiving their following.

For someone who claims to constantly be hearing from God, I would have expected better reading comprehension from you (no offense).

You don't know what you're talking about (no offense). Sounds ridiculous,no?

 

[Jim B]

Not understanding this, filled with the Spirit, where does it say that?..l believe you, I just can’t find it, also is being filled the same as being birthed? question also to @Behold .?

Teachers as you are @Behold @1stCenturyLady ....as you can see, I’m not the only one who has asked this question.

Don Stewart :: Is the Baptism with the Holy Spirit the Same Thing as Regeneration or Spiritual Rebirth?​

IS THE BAPTISM WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT THE SAME THING AS REGENERATION OR SPIRITUAL REBIRTH?​

I Never Knew You​

21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.

Your quote was spoken to Jews prior to the giving of the Holy Spirit. It does not have applicability to Christians who have been born of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Jim B]

I find this response interesting. Instead of turning the other cheek when someone insults you, you return the insult. That's not being like Christ. To be unlike Christ is to sin. I think if you were to be honest with yourself right now, you'd have no choice but to come to the conclusion that you're guilty of sin. That's how easy it is to fall short. Especially when we compare our sinful selves to the sinless Jesus.

If we are in Christ, i.e., part of His body, then we are considered sinless. Even though a Christian may sin, s/he is not judged to be a sinner, just someone who made a mistake. "Sinful selves" can only refer to the unsaved.

 

[friend of]

Obviously you have not witnessed a real miracle. Either that or your lack of faith prevented you from seeing what actually happened.

Not every "miracle" is real, sorry.

 

[friend of]

If we are in Christ, i.e., part of His body, then we are considered sinless. Even though a Christian may sin, s/he is not judged to be a sinner, just someone who made a mistake. "Sinful selves" can only refer to the unsaved.

But that's not what 1stCenturyLady thinks. She thinks she's sinlessly perfect.

I disagree. Only Jesus was sinlessly perfect.

 

[Behold]

But that's not what 1stCenturyLady thinks. She thinks she's sinlessly perfect.

I disagree. Only Jesus was sinlessly perfect.

Let me ask you a question.

Lets say you are born again.
Now that is not "im water baptized and confirmed" or.. ."Im keeping the commandments and working my way into heaven".

Not that one. We can save that discussion for the Catholic and Jehovah's Witness Thread.
Ok?

"Born again"

So, if you are born again, then you "body is dead because of sin" and you mind" (where you think) ...both of those are not born again.
So what is left that IS born again, friend of?