Saved by obeying the commandments?

[Ritajanice]

No, we are sinless, but our newly cleansed human nature that PARTAKES of the divine nature of God still needs to mature in the fruit of the Spirit.

Which is the role of the Holy Spirit...he is the fruit bearer, we aren’t....he is the potter we are the clay....we are being transformed into the image of Christ, by the power that’s within us....the Holy Spirit...we have a LIVING relationship with the Father through the Spirit.

John 151 "I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener.2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes [1] so that it will be even more fruitful.3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you.4 Remain in me, and I will remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.5 "I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.6 If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be given you.8 This is to my Father's glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Which is the role of the Holy Spirit...he is the fruit bearer, we aren’t....he is the potter we are the clay....we are being transformed into the image of Christ, by the power that’s within us....the Holy Spirit...we have a LIVING relationship with the Father through the Spirit.

John 151 "I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener.2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes [1] so that it will be even more fruitful.3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you.4 Remain in me, and I will remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.5 "I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.6 If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be given you.8 This is to my Father's glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.

Yes, we are the branches IN Him, the vine.

 

[Behold]

include New Covenant works of righteousness

Episkops preaches "doing works of righteousness" to BE righteous.

Paul preaches the "Gift of Righteousness" to be "made righteous", as "the righteousness of God in Christ.


There is one way to the Father, one way to be saved. and Its not by doing works of any kind.

Salvation, that is Eternal life, is : JESUS only = John 14:6

preach/teach no substitute .... 1stCenturyLady

 

[[email protected]]

Jesus made it clear that in order for to save us for obeying the commandments they must be followed perfectly. Let's go over the promise made to the rich man by Jesus. But how many of us obey them perfectly? That is why I am a confessed sinner as I am not perfect. God is.

Matthew 19:16-26​

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New King James Version​

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Jesus Counsels the Rich Young Ruler​

16 Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”

17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”
Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”

20 The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept from my youth. What do I still lack?”

21 Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”

22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.

With God All Things Are Possible​

23 Then Jesus said to His disciples, “Assuredly, I say to you that it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 And again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”

25 When His disciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?”

26 But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

Seems I'm a bit confused about the POINT you're trying to make here.

Are you saying its OK to SIN to one's heart's content - to admit one is a sinner until or unless God doesn't something about it (that 'something' is typically called death (Romans 6:23)).

OR

Are you asserting that something else is in play here with regard to perfection.

What is perfection anyway? What was Jesus talking about when He said it ... especially considering that everybody seems to agree its an impossibility. Was Jesus imbibing too much wedding wine when He said it? What was He talking about?

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

 

[dev553344]

Seems I'm a bit confused about the POINT you're trying to make here.

Are you saying its OK to SIN to one's heart's content - to admit one is a sinner until or unless God doesn't something about it (that 'something' is typically called death (Romans 6:23)).

OR

Are you asserting that something else is in play here with regard to perfection.

What is perfection anyway? What was Jesus talking about when He said it ... especially considering that everybody seems to agree its an impossibility. Was Jesus imbibing too much wedding wine when He said it? What was He talking about?

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

If Jesus makes a promise to someone I'm sure he'll keep it. The point is that he made a promise to the rich man to save him if he obeyed the commandments, but he had to sell all he had and follow Jesus. I'm not sure why that isn't clear.

I think the point is that some churches teach to obey the commandments and be saved, but they aren't teaching the perfection that was in the promise Jesus made to the rich man.

The church in the scriptures said they all sold their items and donated it so that all were in common and no poor was among them.

 

[Behold]

I think the point is that some churches teach to obey the commandments and be saved,

If keeping commands, law, can save you, can provide you with the door to heaven, then Why did Jesus have to die on the Cross?

The issue with the Law and Commandments, is that they require righteousness from you, that you don't possess.
They keep you under that situation, that is a CURSE.

Reader, they keep defining you as a SINNER.

"Jesus came to redeem us from the CURSE of the Law".

How?

God provides "the Gift of Righteousness" to us, when we give God our Faith in Christ.

Welcome To : Salvation

Its a "Gift" from God.

The "GIFT of Salvation".

 

[dev553344]

If keeping commands, law, can save you, can provide you with the door to heaven, then Why did Jesus have to die on the Cross?

The issue with the Law and Commandments, is that they require righteousness from you, that you don't possess.
They keep you under that situation, that is a CURSE.

Reader, they keep defining you as a SINNER.

"Jesus came to redeem us from the CURSE of the Law".

How?

God provides "the Gift of Righteousness" to us, when we give God our Faith in Christ.

Welcome To : Salvation

Its a "Gift" from God.

The "GIFT of Salvation".

Behold, you're missing the point and what the scriptures are saying. Jesus died on the cross to save people, so if he tells someone to do something to be saved, you better do it. Because he can offer salvation.

 

[Behold]

Behold, you're missing the point and what the scriptures are saying. Jesus died on the cross to save people, so if he tells someone to do something to be saved, you better do it. Because he can offer salvation.

He did tell us..

Jesus said..

"All that BELIEVE In me, i give unto them Eternal Life, and they shall never go to Hell, (perish)".

Jesus said...

"you must be born again"..

See those 2?

They are the SAME, and here He is again..

"If you believe not, that i am the Messiah, you will die in your sins"..

"I came into the world to SAVE sinners"..

Paul teaches it like this.

"All who call on the name of JESUS, (Believing) shall be saved"..

Jesus calls that "saved".... "Eternal Life".

Commandment keeps can't provide this for you.

 

[dev553344]

He did tell us..

Jesus said..

"All that BELIEVE In me, i give unto them Eternal Life, and they shall never go to Hell, (perish)".

Jesus said...

"you must be born again"..

See those 2?

They are the SAME, and here He is again..

"If you believe not, that i am the Messiah, you will die in your sins"..

"I came into the world to SAVE sinners"..

Paul teaches it like this.

"All who call on the name of JESUS, (Believing) shall be saved"..

Jesus calls that "saved".... "Eternal Life".

Commandment keeps can't provide this for you.

You not telling what the scriptures say Behold, check post #180 for what we are told to do to be saved.

 

[Behold]

You not telling what the scriptures say Behold, check post #180 for what we are told to do to be saved.

I already checked with the Cross of Christ.

See, God didn't offer anything else that can pay for your SIN, dev553344.

SIN, is the issue.

SIN.

Adam was separated from God before the commandments showed up.
Do you realize this?
The commandments were added to the human race because we were already "fallen" , already "Adamic".

See that? And you can't deal with it by law and commandments, as all they do is show you your sin.
The Law and Commandments show you that you are a sinner needing to go to the CROSS for FORGIVENESS.

Every human over 10 yrs old, has broken some of the commandments, in word, deed, or thought.
You,
Me,
Everyone.
So, there goes...."saved by commandments"

Now, you have SIN, and only the blood of Jesus is offered by God to deal with your sin.

 

[Cassandra]

Here's the thing. Once we are saved by Jesus, we will WANT to do His will. The Spirit is given to guide us, but if we mess up, we have an Advocate, and can go to Him and ask forgiveness.
It is not a matter of getting forgiven, and thinking we are forever able to do what we want, because we don't sin. We do sin, even the little things that people don't see. That is why dev553344 brings up the rich man, or even the Pharisee and the publican. They had sins that folks can't see, but the publican knew he needed God, and the rich man's heart was seen by Jesus.

The people here who claim to be sinless must never get angry with others and you know what I mean by angry--one that cuts on our self importance, and not the Lord's,--we all do this. But for the sinless folk, they don't have to ask for forgiveness--that to a Jews I guess, that Jesus said to "Forgive us our trespasses" Sinless folk don't have to do this. As a matter of fact, they don't have to pray for guidance either, because they already have it.

I

 

[M3n0r4h]

Faith is not passive, but embodies faithfulness. Before I accepted Jesus as my savior, I was not keeping God's commandments, but now that I have accepted the Gospel of Jesus Christ by faith in the fact that only He could provide salvation (while I was yet a sinner), now my lifestyle has been turned around and I seek to do His will and keep His commandments. Therefore, 'faith' is a continuous walk in faithfulness through the indwelling and guidance of the Holy Spirit. God has provided everything necessary as a free gift.

When I was a mormon, they always liked to quote James 2:14 in an effort to make a point that they had a new system of works that was necessary to be followed in order to maintain one's salvation. Whether Mosaic law, or Mormon law; living by any man's law will not bring salvation. I believe that Paul compliments what James was speaking to in the following passage:

Titus 2:13-14​

English Standard Version​

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13 waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14 who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for good works.

When I was a sinner, I had no good works to offer, because I spurned the teachings of Jesus; however, after I accepted Jesus as my Lord, Risen Savior, and soon returning King, then I could be made a clean vessel that could be furnished by God unto all good works (2 Tim. 3:17). God always gets the Glory. Cheers.

 

[Behold]

The people here who claim to be sinless

Being born again, as a "new Creation in Christ" is why Jesus has their sin, and they don't.

How many sins did Jesus die for on the Cross?

A.) All of them

"God hath made Jesus to be sin for us'"

"Jesus is the one time ETERNAL Sacrifice for sin".

 

[Ritajanice]

Being born again, as a "new Creation in Christ" is why Jesus has their sin, and they don't.

How many sins did Jesus die for on the Cross?

A.) All of them

"God hath made Jesus to be sin for us'"

"Jesus is the one time ETERNAL Sacrifice for sin".

And a Born Again who has been birthed in the Spirit....is in the righteousness of Christ....a new creation in Christ.

 

[dev553344]

Here's the thing. Once we are saved by Jesus, we will WANT to do His will. The Spirit is given to guide us, but if we mess up, we have an Advocate, and can go to Him and ask forgiveness.
It is not a matter of getting forgiven, and thinking we are forever able to do what we want, because we don't sin. We do sin, even the little things that people don't see. That is why dev553344 brings up the rich man, or even the Pharisee and the publican. They had sins that folks can't see, but the publican knew he needed God, and the rich man's heart was seen by Jesus.

The people here who claim to be sinless must never get angry with others and you know what I mean by angry--one that cuts on our self importance, and not the Lord's,--we all do this. But for the sinless folk, they don't have to ask for forgiveness--that to a Jews I guess, that Jesus said to "Forgive us our trespasses" Sinless folk don't have to do this. As a matter of fact, they don't have to pray for guidance either, because they already have it.

I

Yes that is correct. Thanks Cassandra!

 

[Behold]

As a matter of fact, they don't have to pray for guidance either, because they already have it.

I

You are just making stuff up now. @Cassandra


Obviously, being "in Christ" .. proves the "New Creation in Christ" is sinless.. , as you could not be joined to Christ as a sinner.
How do you know?
Because Jesus had to die on the Cross for all your sins, before He could join Himself to the believer.
They have to be given the blood atonement, that deals with all their sin, before Spiritual union with God and Christ can be completed.
God does not join Himself to SIN, so, the born again have none...otherwise, They could not be 'IN Christ"..."ONE with God".

 

[Gottservant]

God loves the Ten Commandments, but He loves the New Commandment more. (selah)