Saved by obeying the commandments?

[dev553344]

Jesus made it clear that in order for to save us for obeying the commandments they must be followed perfectly. Let's go over the promise made to the rich man by Jesus. But how many of us obey them perfectly? That is why I am a confessed sinner as I am not perfect. God is.

Matthew 19:16-26​

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New King James Version​

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Jesus Counsels the Rich Young Ruler​

16 Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”

17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”
Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”

20 The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept from my youth. What do I still lack?”

21 Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”

22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.

With God All Things Are Possible​

23 Then Jesus said to His disciples, “Assuredly, I say to you that it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 And again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”

25 When His disciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?”

26 But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

 

[dev553344]

This is why I prefer churches that confess they are sinners and in need of God's mercy. I see them as more grounded in reality and less self righteous in arrogance.

 

[Behold]

Jesus made it clear that in order for to save us for obeying the commandments they must be followed perfectly.

You've already broken the commandments in word, thought, or the deed itself.

What now?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

This is why I prefer churches that confess they are sinners and in need of God's mercy. I see them as more grounded in reality and less self righteous in arrogance.

Why do you prefer a church that doesn't believe the WORDS of Jesus, but instead, the human reasoning of man and even doctrines of demons? They have a defeatist message that you will always be a sinner. And that you will always have a sin nature. Both are FALSE according to Scripture! God will not call a sinner, a child of God. Read John 8:34-36 below. A sinner will not be with God forever. Only the blood of Jesus can free you from the desire to sin. It is not the Old Covenant Ten Commandments we need to keep, but the laws God writes on your conscience to keep. From faith to faith. Or from obedience to obedience because you follow your conscience as He writes more laws on it.

John 8:32-36 shows that the TRUTH THAT SHALL SET YOU FREE is freedom from sin! How?
34 Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. 36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.

This means that is you are not a child of God, but still a slave of sin, you need to be born again of the Holy Spirit. Most denominations from the Reformation and even before do not believe or teach that when we are filled with the Holy Spirit that sin is taken out of our nature and we no longer can commit sins unto death (sins of lawlessness). Only when Jesus has taken away the desire to commit sins against the commandments do you know you are born again of the Spirit.

1 John 3:4-54 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin.

There is a second type of sin that even a born again Christian can commit that has to do with immature fruit of the Spirit. Jesus is the vine-keeper and helps us grow in Him. Look at 1 John 1:7 and see a man walking in the LIGHT, or Spirit, But at the end you see those sins not unto death (1 John 5:16-17) are being automatically cleansed while he is growing the fruit in him to maturity. That also means that he has reconciled with all around him (his church brethren who have trespassed against him. Matthew 6:14-15).

 

[dev553344]

Why do you prefer a church that doesn't believe the WORDS of Jesus, but instead, the human reasoning of man and even doctrines of demons? They have a defeatist message that you will always be a sinner. And that you will always have a sin nature. Both are FALSE according to Scripture! God will not call a sinner, a child of God. Read John 8:34-36 below. A sinner will not be with God forever. Only the blood of Jesus can free you from the desire to sin. It is not the Old Covenant Ten Commandments we need to keep, but the laws God writes on your conscience to keep. From faith to faith. Or from obedience to obedience because you follow your conscience as He writes more laws on it.

John 8:32-36 shows that the TRUTH THAT SHALL SET YOU FREE is freedom from sin! How?
34 Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. 36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.

This means that is you are not a child of God, but still a slave of sin, you need to be born again of the Holy Spirit. Most denominations from the Reformation and even before do not believe or teach that when we are filled with the Holy Spirit that sin is taken out of our nature and we no longer can commit sins unto death (sins of lawlessness). Only when Jesus has taken away the desire to commit sins against the commandments do you know you are born again of the Spirit.

1 John 3:4-54 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin.

There is a second type of sin that even a born again Christian can commit that has to do with immature fruit of the Spirit. Jesus is the vine-keeper and helps us grow in Him. Look at 1 John 1:7 and see a man walking in the LIGHT, or Spirit, But at the end you see those sins not unto death (1 John 5:16-17) are being automatically cleansed while he is growing the fruit in him to maturity. That also means that he has reconciled with all around him (his church brethren who have trespassed against him. Matthew 6:14-15).

I find this very legalistic. There are passages in the scriptures that shows your position false. Such as the parable of the Tax collector and Pharisee, the thief on the cross and the adulterer woman. Some were saved and some forgiven or justified.

 

[dev553344]

You've already broken the commandments in word, thought, or the deed itself.

What now?

I confess my sins to God and ask for mercy. But OK. None of us are perfect that much is clear.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I find this very legalistic. There are passages in the scriptures that shows your position false. Such as the parable of the Tax collector and Pharisee, the thief on the cross and the adulterer woman. Some were saved and some forgiven or justified.

It is not legalistic if we are only following our conscience doing what is now naturally from a cleansed conscience. You aren't making sense. What specifically have I written that brings you to your wrong conclusion. Let's work it out.

 

[Behold]

I confess my sins to God and ask for mercy. But OK. None of us are perfect that much is clear.

So, if a person has broken the 10 commandments, then now can they save us?

A.) They can't. They never could.

The Law and 10 Commandments, were given so that we can understand what we are.... ..= .we are sinners needing to be forgiven.

So, can a sinner use the 10 Commandments and Law, that define us as "all have sinned" to get God to have us and keep us?

How can what defines us as worthy of God's wrath, be used to try to go to heaven?

That is like trying to get a snake to bite you again, hoping that this will cancel out the first poisonous bite, dev553344.

We dont go back to the snake , praying that the snake has the antidote, as the snake only has the fangs, the poison.

So, where is the Antidote?
Where is our forgiveness for our sin, found, dev553344 ?

In the OT, they killed and bled an animal and that sacrifice = that BLOOD sacrifice was counted in their favor, but not forever.
It was a temporary pardon.

"without the shedding of Blood, there is no Forgiveness of sin".

So.....God, sent His Son, to the CROSS, to be that ETERNAL BLOOD SACRIFICE for all our sin.

The Law and 10 Commandments show us our sin, show us ourselves..... so that we recognize that we need forgiveness, and God has provided it for us, as Jesus on the Cross.

When we trust in Christ as our Savior, He becomes our forgiveness for all our sin, based on HIS BLOOD AND DEATH being the sacrifice for all our sin....that God has provided for us.

 

[dev553344]

So, if a person has broken the 10 commandments, then now can they save us?

A.) They can't. They never could.

The Law and 10 Commandments, were given so that we can understand what we are.... ..= .we are sinners needing to be forgiven.

So, can a sinner use the 10 Commandments and Law, that define us as "all have sinned" to get God to have us and keep us?

How can what defines us as worthy of God's wrath, be used to try to go to heaven?

That is like trying to get a snake to bite you again, hoping that this will cancel out the first poisonous bite, dev553344.

We dont go back to the snake , praying that the snake has the antidote, as the snake only has the fangs, the poison.

So, where is the Antidote?
Where is our forgiveness for our sin, found, dev553344 ?

In the OT, they killed and bled an animal and that sacrifice = that BLOOD sacrifice was counted in their favor, but not forever.
It was a temporary pardon.

"without the shedding of Blood, there is no Forgiveness of sin".

So.....God, sent His Son, to the CROSS, to be that ETERNAL BLOOD SACRIFICE for all our sin.

The Law and 10 Commandments show us our sin, show us ourselves..... so that we recognize that we need forgiveness, and God has provided it for us, as Jesus on the Cross.

When we trust in Christ as our Savior, He becomes our forgiveness for all our sin, based on HIS BLOOD AND DEATH being the sacrifice for all our sin....that God has provided for us.

Well you're talking about forgiveness of sin, and only God can grant that. He will forgive whom he decides to forgive. That much I'm sure of.

 

[dev553344]

It is not legalistic if we are only following our conscience doing what is now naturally from a cleansed conscience. You aren't making sense. What specifically have I written that brings you to your wrong conclusion. Let's work it out.

Well the point of the OP was to say that obeying the commandments will not get you saved. It is commanded that we obey the commandments though. But we will not be perfect in this, especially when considering the Royal Law of love God and love your neighbor. Legalism is expecting to be saved by obeying the 10 commandments. The parable of the tax collector and Pharisee covers that concept well.

 

[Behold]

Well you're talking about forgiveness of sin, and only God can grant that. He will forgive whom he decides to forgive. That much I'm sure of.

He'l forgive you for all your sin, if you will go to Christ with trust in your heart.

He did it for me, and God will do it for you.

"Jesus came into the world to save sinners". 1 Timothy 1:12

"God wants all to be saved" 1 Timothy 2:4

We are all in need of God's forgiveness, = that is eternal Salvation through Christ.

The Cross is the way there.

ALL are welcome there..... John 3:16-17

2 Corinthians 5:19

 

[dev553344]

He'l forgive you for all your sin, if you will go to Christ with trust in your heart.

He did it for me, and God will do it for you.

"Jesus came into the world to save sinners". 1 Timothy 1:12

"God wants all to be saved" 1 Timothy 2:4

We are all in need of God's forgiveness, = that is eternal Salvation through Christ.

The Cross is the way there.

ALL are welcome there..... John 3:16-17

Thank you @Behold. That makes sense to me. Jesus is the only way to be saved. Our works are for judgment and not for salvation. But it is good to encourage people to obey the commandments since they are all about loving people and not hurting them.

 

[Behold]

Thank you @Behold. That makes sense to me. Jesus is the only way to be saved. Our works are for judgment and not for salvation. But it is good to encourage people to obey the commandments since they are all about loving people and not hurting them.

Yes, Jesus is the way to God. John 14:6

Its that "sin" issue.
God can't have us, until that Cross takes care of our sin.
If there was any other way, then Jesus didn't have to die on The Cross.
There is no other "way". As Jesus is "The Way to the Father".

And i hear ya about the Love of God,.
God is a Giver.
He gave us His Son.
We are most like God when we Give.
The best "works" we can give to God, ....dev553344

1.) Availability

2.) Dependability

 

[dev553344]

Yes, Jesus is the way to God. John 14:6

Its that "sin" issue.
God can't have us, until that Cross takes care of our sin.
If there was any other way, then Jesus didn't have to die on The Cross.
There is no other "way". As Jesus is "The Way to the Father".

And i hear ya about the Love of God,.
God is a Giver.
He gave us His Son.
We are most like God when we Give.
The best "works" we can give to God, ....dev553344

1.) Availability

2.) Dependability

Well that is kind of the point of the OP. In order to not sin you must be perfect in following Christ. And I just don't see that as possible for most people so they must confess themselves as sinners and be honest with themselves and God. It's the right thing to do.

 

[Jim B]

Well that is kind of the point of the OP. In order to not sin you must be perfect in following Christ. And I just don't see that as possible for most people so they must confess themselves as sinners and be honest with themselves and God. It's the right thing to do.

I don't want to get to technical but those who are saved are not sinners. They are part of the body of Christ, He is the head, we are His body.

It is the right thing to confess sins to one another and to God, but that doesn't change a persons status. Either a person is saved or they're not.

 

[Behold]

Well that is kind of the point of the OP. In order to not sin you must be perfect in following Christ. And I just don't see that as possible for most people so they must confess themselves as sinners and be honest with themselves and God. It's the right thing to do.

The power to live the Holy Life you are wanting to have, at all times..... You can't get it, by confessing sin.

You are in "sin, confess, repeat"... and that can't be stopped by trying to stop, or wanting to stop.
That has to be God delivering you from that situation.., only.

God will give you that deliverance..... if you will let Him take those sins from you with the Blood and death of His Son.

Really.

He will take your sin, forgive you, and then empower you into that righteous life you want, and there is no other way you can have it.

We can't of ourselves do for ourselves....., what Only God can do for us.

He has to give you the power to live the Holy life...., and He is blocked by SIN... He has to deal with all that sin, like this............

= "God hath made Jesus to be sin for us"... as..."the one time eternal sacrifice for sin"...

That is through the blood and of Jesus... . We get all our sin resolved by the Cross of Christ, and THEN God will bring to you , empower you INTO what you are trying to do for yourself that is not found in that way., dev553344.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Well the point of the OP was to say that obeying the commandments will not get you saved. It is commanded that we obey the commandments though. But we will not be perfect in this, especially when considering the Royal Law of love God and love your neighbor. Legalism is expecting to be saved by obeying the 10 commandments. The parable of the tax collector and Pharisee covers that concept well.

Legalism is when you have laws that are AGAINST your NATURE. Since Adam sinned and turned dominion over to Satan mankind inherited SIN in our nature making us sinners. It got so bad that God gave the Ten Commandments to guard them, but they had to keep them against their nature. That is why the Ten Commandments could not make them righteous, because nothing took away the sin nature making them inherently unrighteous.

Galatians 3:19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator.

The Seed is Jesus.

The reason why Jesus came as I said before was to take the SIN OUT OF OUR NATURE. Understand? In 1977 when I was born again of the Spirit I literally felt a weight lift off of me. Its real. I have a clean nature so I don't willfully sin. I don't NEED the Ten Commandments. That is why we are not UNDER the Law. We don't need the law to be righteous. Jesus took the unrighteousness out of our nature. Understand? Now with a clean nature that doesn't willfully sin, all that is left are sins not unto death - immature fruit.

Dev, Please go to a church that teaches on the Holy Spirit and get yourself born again. You will no longer be a sinner of lawlessness, the kind of sin that leads to death. Galatians 5:19-21. Listed in that verse are sins unto death. Read them and see if you may already have the Holy Spirit or not. If you do, then you can stop calling yourself a sinner and call yourself what God calls us in 1 John 3:1-3. "children of God." Read these.

 

[Cassandra]

Read them and see if you may already have the Holy Spirit or not

The Holy Spirit is given to those who repent. Are you saying you are not guilty of any of those things(Galatians 5:19-21)? That your "old man" is truly dead, and that you cannot relate to Paul who said "I die daily" Those things in Galatians can be done by just thoughts, not overt actions.

 

[Nancy]

I find this very legalistic. There are passages in the scriptures that shows your position false. Such as the parable of the Tax collector and Pharisee, the thief on the cross and the adulterer woman. Some were saved and some forgiven or justified.

There is also: Hebrews12:5-7

"…5 And you have forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons: “My son, do not take lightly the discipline of the Lord, and do not lose heart when He rebukes you. 6 For the Lord disciplines the one He loves, and He chastises every son He receives.” 7 Endure suffering as discipline; God is treating you as sons. For what son is not disciplined by his father?…"

When Christians do wrong, is lack of "righteousness", God chastises in the hopes that person will turn around (repent) and walk uprightly next time they are tempted and disobey the leading of The Spirit as, He always provides us a way out, but not all will follow that leading as, they justify some things and others are weak in the faith...I welcome His chastening!

If we are sinless, why would God have to chastise His "children"? He chastises those who He loves and receives as a son/daughter.

P.S.
Why would we be told to "confess your sins to one another"?

 

[Behold]

The Holy Spirit is given to those who repent. Are you saying you are not guilty of any of those things? That your "old man" is truly dead, and that you cannot relate to Paul who said "I die daily"

The Holy Spirit is given to those who repent of their unbelief, turning to faith in Christ.

If an unbeliever has some paranoia idea that "god is watching" and they feel some strange guilt because of their shame, and tell God who they dont actually know, that they are "so sorry" for some fillthy deed they just committed....
Its meaningless.
Its not forgiven,., not then, and not if they repent of it 500 more times.

Real repentance, that an unbeliever gives to God that He accepts= is to repent from unbelief to Faith in Christ.

A.) "faith is counted as righteousness".

Paul said that "i die daily"...... is not Paul repenting from sin, daily.. As you can read every word Paul ever wrote and he never ever tells the body of Christ to "confess sin"..
He never ever says that He "confessed sin" after being put into the Ministry.

He said that "he is Chief of sinners", because that is His personal feeling about the fact that he was a Christian Killer, before He was a Christ lover.
So, Paul felt that this sin was the worst of all type sins...the "CHIEF" of sin.
That's what that means. ... That as he committed the most horrible sin, in his own eyes.... before he was saved, He considered that as the "chief of sinners".
Then he said that Jesus took him and made him the Greatest Apostle , to show God's mercy for the worst type person, by making Him a Trophy of God's Grace.
This is to show us the mercy of God, for US.

Paul never wrote in any of his epistles, that he confessed a sin.... Because He understood that "God hath made Jesus to be sin for us"............... = as "The one time eternal sacrifice for Sin".

Paul understood that Jesus had all His sin, and He had God's Righteousness, always, as "the Gift of Righteousness".

Paul should know all those verses, i posted, as He wrote them to the body of Christ.