Faith without works is dead

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Episkopos

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2011
12,894
19,455
113
65
Montreal
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Hi dragonfly,

Again you are answering on behalf of Episkopos without first understanding what he is saying.

Episkopos has said he knows of nobody with similar understanding of the truth like he has. Therefore he find's it lonely as he has nobody to fellowship with. From this we can see that he is not fellowshipping in a church, as you suggested he might be, therefore he is not even an overseer within a local fellowship like you suggested.

His claim to be an overseer over the church is a fantasy claim as his false gospel confirms that he has no ministry from God.

I note however that you allign yourself with Episkopos and his false gospel, even to the point of ignoring his ridicule of others he disagrees with on this forum. This is quite a hypocritical stance you take.

You are wrong of course! :) I am an overseer in a Christian community and have been appointed by God as such.I have been a full time worker for the past 10 years or so.

But this is not why I have the username Episkopos. I can't explain what God has shown me about the way He guides us and bestows authority. But my username is to commemorate His visitation....which is the deeper meaning of "Episkopay". On a forum such as this where anything goes...I cannot share the wonderful things that God bestows on His people.
 

dragonfly

Well-Known Member
Apr 19, 2012
1,882
141
63
UK
haz, please note my response to you last on p4 of this thread. Many thanks.



Episkopos, thanks bro.
 

williemac

New Member
Apr 29, 2012
1,094
65
0
Canada
God can declare any man righteousn as He ses fit. The problem is when men read the bible...compare themselves favourably to those whom they read about...then declare themselves righteous! That is the essence of self-righteousness! The Pharisees did exactly the same thing.
The reasoning goes...Abraham was declared righteous...I am just like Abraham...so I am righteous!!! Foolproof???
Seemed good enough for Paul. It was he who said that we can be blessed with believing Abraham. It was he who said we are partakers of the promise made to Abraham. The Pharisees did not do this. They elevated themselves above others by virtue of their position and their works.They exalted themselves over others (Luke18:10-14). They did not see themselves as sinners. They had pride in their own works and accomplishments and were not humble. This is equivalent to the original sin of Lucifer. He elevated himself.

A note: In James, none of the examples of works that Abrham did were works of law. But there are those who use this point from James to justify the obedience to law. But that was not the point James was making. The point is simple. The things we do reveal what is in our heart.

There are those who promote lawkeeping that compare others with the law and question their salvation, since they are not (apparently) keeping the law. This is what is being opposed by some, including myself.

The original topic and title has an agenda for some. They try to connect works of law with salvation. There is a line being drawn here. This is an important matter.
 

RichardBurger

New Member
Jan 23, 2008
1,498
19
0
91
Southeast USA
It is always seen as a contradiction, to me, for someone to say the believe James words "faith without works is dead" and in the same writing state that works do nor save anyone.
 

seekandfind

New Member
Jun 21, 2012
71
5
0
It is always seen as a contradiction, to me, for someone to say the believe James words "faith without works is dead" and in the same writing state that works do nor save anyone.

It is always seen as a contradiction, to me, for someone to say that they believe the word of God, and find it more appropriate to lean on their own understanding and disregard certain scriptures.

Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
Proverbs 3:6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
Proverbs 3:7 Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.
Proverbs 3:8 It shall be health to thy navel, and marrow to thy bones.

2 Corinthians 1:9 But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead:
2 Corinthians 1:10 Who delivered us from so great a death, and doth deliver: in whom we trust that he will yet deliver us;
 

dragonfly

Well-Known Member
Apr 19, 2012
1,882
141
63
UK
Hello Richard,

It is always seen as a contradiction, to me, for someone to say the believe James words "faith without works is dead" and in the same writing state that works do nor save anyone.

The 'works' which do not save anyone now, are those of the Mosaic law. And yet, the 'works' which James gives as examples, were expected of Israelites who did keep the Mosaic law. The problem with the Mosaic law is expressed in

Hebrews 10:4 For [it is] not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.... 11 And every priest stands daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

The intention of the Mosaic law was to bring the people into closer fellowship with Him. (Exo 8:1; Exo 19:4) The promises that they made to God at Sinai also established the children of Jacob (aka Israel) as a nation before Him. (Their nationhood was dependent on them keeping this (now) Old Covenant. Heb 10:9)


I've tried to bring together (below) verses which show the major differences.

Jesus ended the Sermon on the Mount with several warnings. (No-one can say this one is not clear:)

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Acts 5:29 - 32 Then Peter and the [other] apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men. The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree. Him hath God exalted with his right hand [to be] a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins. [Isa 20:59] And we are his witnesses of these things; and [so is] also the Holy Ghost, whom God has given to them that obey him.


The Mosaic law used to save Israelites, (and proselytes). All the sins listed in that law were 'covered' by the blood of sacrifices which had been killed in a certain way and presented to God in a certain way. There were other offerings to give and rules to be kept at other times. The Day of Atonement every year covered all the sins of thought and omission (intangible) for the whole nation. By all these, God intended to maintain His relationship with His people. Those who did not keep the law perfectly, were destroyed from among the to 'put sin away from' them. Many generations who had turned to idolatry were destroyed, or, their children were destroyed.

When Jesus died on the cross, He brought all those offerings to an end, for those who would believe in Him.

Hebrews 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, [which are] the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: 25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; 26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he has perfected [completed] for ever them that are sanctified. [Heb 9:15]

Acts 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: 23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: 24 Whom God has raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden by it.

Acts 13:32 - 34 And we declare to you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers, God has fulfilled the same to us their children, in that he has raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, [now] no more to return to corruption... 36 For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption: 37 But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption. 38 Be it known unto you therefore, men [and] brethren, that through this man [Jesus Christ] is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins: 39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

[Hebrews 7:11 - 16 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need [was there] that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron? For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. For he of whom these things are spoken pertains to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar. For [it is] evident that our Lord sprang out of Judah; of which tribe Moses said nothing concerning priesthood. And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there arises another priest, who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life....

23 - 28 And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death: but this [man], because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever lives to make intercession for them. For such an high priest became us, [who is] holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; who needs not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself. [Heb 10:14] For the law makes men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, [Heb 6:13 - 20] which was since the law, [makes] the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.]


Therefore, anyone who has come to faith in Christ, having had all their past sins forgiven, becoming a disciple and taking up their cross daily to follow Him, has acknowledged their sinfulness (Rom 5:12), and turning from it, has been buried with Him in baptism, and been raised to walk with Him in newness of life, through the Holy Spirit. (1 John 2:1)

Colossians 2:9 - 14 For in him dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:in whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with [him] through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses: blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross...'

People seem to forget that 'keeping the law' of Moses meant a continual reminder of sins through the sacrificial system. That's what 'keeping the law' was intended to do. But, now, we are empowered by the Spirit of grace to do what is right and pleasing to God through Christ being in us; we are under new management. There is an assumption that a person turning to Jesus Christ, is simultaneously turning from sin and idols. 1 Thess 1:9; 1 John 5:21.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

John 17:19 - 23 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth. [John 17:17] Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; that they all may be one; as thou, Father, [art] in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

John 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

James 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: 9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

1 Corinthians 1:29 That no flesh should glory in his presence. 30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: 31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

Romans 10:1 - 5 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves to the righteousness of God. For Christ [is] the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believes. For Moses describes the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which does those things shall live by them.

Romans 3:21 - 28 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; to declare, [I say], at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him who believes in Jesus.

Where [is] boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

1 John 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not practise the truth: 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanses us from all sin.

Hebrews 12:1 '... let us lay aside every weight, and the sin [unbelief] which so easily besets [us], and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2 looking to Jesus the author and finisher of [our] faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds. 4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

Revelation 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

James 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth [it] not, to him it is sin.
 

RichardBurger

New Member
Jan 23, 2008
1,498
19
0
91
Southeast USA
It is always seen as a contradiction, to me, for someone to say that they believe the word of God, and find it more appropriate to lean on their own understanding and disregard certain scriptures.

Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
Proverbs 3:6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
Proverbs 3:7 Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.
Proverbs 3:8 It shall be health to thy navel, and marrow to thy bones.

2 Corinthians 1:9 But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead:
2 Corinthians 1:10 Who delivered us from so great a death, and doth deliver: in whom we trust that he will yet deliver us;

Your new here so let me inform you of what I say. We are sved by placing out belief, faith, trust, and confidence in the cross work of Jesus (God) on the cross; we are reconciled to God by His shed blood.

None of the scriptures you quoted apply to me because I am;

Proverbs 3:5 Trusting in the LORD with all my heart; and leaning not own my own understanding nor on the understanding of other men but on the revelations of the Holy Spirit; God..
Proverbs 3:6 In all my ways I acknowledge him, and I let Him direct thy paths.
Proverbs 3:7 I am not wise in tmy own eyes but I have, at the leading of the Holy Spirit departed from the evil of self-righteousness.
Proverbs 3:8 It shall be health to thy navel, and marrow to thy bones.

2 Corinthians 1:9 But we """had""" (past tense) the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead:

I do not trust in myself nor do I trust in man. As I have stated I have placed my belief, faith, trust, and confidence in the cross work of Jesus (God) on the cross

2 Corinthians 1:10 Who delivered (past tense) us from so great a death, and doth deliver: in whom we trust that he will yet deliver us;:

Same statement: I have stated I have placed my belief, faith, trust, and confidence in the cross work of Jesus (God) on the cross

Hello Richard,

James 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth [it] not, to him it is sin.

Very good, Almost right on. But I see you included the following;

James 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: 9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

How are we convinced of the law as transgreessors when you know we are dead to the law and are not under the law?

James 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth [it] not, to him it is sin

But those who are not under the law can not be judged by the law.
 

Episkopos

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2011
12,894
19,455
113
65
Montreal
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
But those who are not under the law can not be judged by the law.

Those under grace establish the law because it is God fulfilling it through them.

Rom_3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
 

haz

Member
Feb 17, 2011
271
16
18
Brisbane, Australia
James 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth [it] not, to him it is sin

I see this scripture being quoted here with assumption that it means either good behavior/lifestyle and/or keeping the 10 commandments.

Yet when we read James 4:11,12 it speaks against those under the law, judging righteousness by works of the law.
The "good" James 4:17 speaks of has nothing to do with good lifestyle and/or keeping the 10 commandments.

You are wrong of course! :) I am an overseer in a Christian community and have been appointed by God as such.I have been a full time worker for the past 10 years or so.

But this is not why I have the username Episkopos. I can't explain what God has shown me about the way He guides us and bestows authority. But my username is to commemorate His visitation....which is the deeper meaning of "Episkopay". On a forum such as this where anything goes...I cannot share the wonderful things that God bestows on His people.

Hi Epi,

You claim you are lonely and have nobody to fellowship with as you know of nobody with your same understanding of truth of scriptures. And now you admit you are an overseer in a church community. This seems somewhat contradictory being that church members often seek out those in church leadership for understanding.

That aside, it remains that your often ambiguous posts here denigrating/ridiculing others here on this forum because they do not follow your truth, is the issue. Your ambiguous posts even leads dragonfly here to answer on your behalf. Unfortunately dragonfly's answers for you are just as ambiguous. BTW, are you and dragonfly members of the same church?
 

dragonfly

Well-Known Member
Apr 19, 2012
1,882
141
63
UK
Hi haz,

Why not just express your own understanding of the verse from James, without making any attribution to others about it? Really, you have no idea whether I meant what you implied. Or, ask me what I meant? How do you know I don't mean the same as James?

Yes, Episkopos and I are members of the same Church; but we have never met. (Get it?)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Episkopos

Episkopos

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2011
12,894
19,455
113
65
Montreal
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
James 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth [it] not, to him it is sin

I see this scripture being quoted here with assumption that it means either good behavior/lifestyle and/or keeping the 10 commandments.

Yet when we read James 4:11,12 it speaks against those under the law, judging righteousness by works of the law.
The "good" James 4:17 speaks of has nothing to do with good lifestyle and/or keeping the 10 commandments.



Hi Epi,

You claim you are lonely and have nobody to fellowship with as you know of nobody with your same understanding of truth of scriptures. And now you admit you are an overseer in a church community. This seems somewhat contradictory being that church members often seek out those in church leadership for understanding.

That aside, it remains that your often ambiguous posts here denigrating/ridiculing others here on this forum because they do not follow your truth, is the issue. Your ambiguous posts even leads dragonfly here to answer on your behalf. Unfortunately dragonfly's answers for you are just as ambiguous. BTW, are you and dragonfly members of the same church?

Just how many other shots in the dark are you ready to make?

Hi haz,

Why not just express your own understanding of the verse from James, without making any attribution to others about it? Really, you have no idea whether I meant what you implied. Or, ask me what I meant? How do you know I don't mean the same as James?

Yes, Episkopos and I are members of the same Church; but we have never met. (Get it?)

LOL We go to different churches together. :)
 

RichardBurger

New Member
Jan 23, 2008
1,498
19
0
91
Southeast USA
Those under grace establish the law because it is God fulfilling it through them.

Rom_3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Wrong! Jesus has already fulfilled it, past tense, not man. We fulfill it thru faith in the one (Jesus) who fulfilled it FOR US. We establish the law by placing our faith in the one that fulfilled the law and in doing it acknowledge that we need Jesus who fulfilled the law. Man has to understand that he is sinful and can not keep the law himself. The only thing man can establish is that he needs Jesus who kept the Law of Moses for him.
 

haz

Member
Feb 17, 2011
271
16
18
Brisbane, Australia
Hi haz,

Why not just express your own understanding of the verse from James, without making any attribution to others about it? Really, you have no idea whether I meant what you implied. Or, ask me what I meant? How do you know I don't mean the same as James?

Yes, Episkopos and I are members of the same Church; but we have never met. (Get it?)

Hi dragonfly,

If I misunderstand what you understand the "good" James 4:17 speaks of, I am always open to correction. Forums are diffcult places to clearly get a message understood anyway. Can you clarify what you think the "good" means in James 4:17?

BTW, what church do you refer to in saying you and Episkopos are both members of?
 

dragonfly

Well-Known Member
Apr 19, 2012
1,882
141
63
UK
Hi Richard,

Episkopos, on 16 July 2012 - 10:30 PM, said:

Those under grace establish the law because it is God fulfilling it through them.

Rom_3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.


Wrong! Jesus has already fulfilled it, past tense, not man. We fulfill it thru faith in the one (Jesus) who fulfilled it FOR US. We establish the law by placing our faith in the one that fulfilled the law and in doing it acknowledge that we need Jesus who fulfilled the law. Man has to understand that he is sinful and can not keep the law himself. The only thing man can establish is that he needs Jesus who kept the Law of Moses for him.

What about this law? Do you recognise it?

Hebrews 8:10 For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: 11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
 

haz

Member
Feb 17, 2011
271
16
18
Brisbane, Australia
Just how many other shots in the dark are you ready to make?

Hi Epi,

Maybe it's time you got out of the dark with your ambiguous posts, lack of scripture and boasts of having the only truth while the rest of us here are in "fantasy". It seems like you like it in the dark ridiculing others here instead of open, plain sharing on scriptures.
 

williemac

New Member
Apr 29, 2012
1,094
65
0
Canada
Those under grace establish the law because it is God fulfilling it through them.

Rom_3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Are you sure of what Paul meant?
Rom.4:14..." For if those who are of the law are heirs, faith is made void and the promise of no effect". What Paul established concerning the law is that it does not produce righteousness (Rom.10:4, Gal.2:21), It does not justify (Rom.5:1, Gal.3:11), We have died to it, having been delivered from it (Rom.7:6), by it we know sin (Rom.7:7), therefore It was our tutor to bring us to Christ , so that in the end we might be justified by faith (Gal.22-24), Those who WERE under the law have been redeemed and made sons by adoption (Gal.4:50, he said "were", because he established that we are no longer under the law (Gal.3:25), because as he said, the law has no power to give life (Gal.3:21)

There are some who quote Paul to say what they want to say rather than what Paul wanted to say.
 
  • Like
Reactions: marks

Episkopos

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2011
12,894
19,455
113
65
Montreal
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Are you sure of what Paul meant?
Rom.4:14..." For if those who are of the law are heirs, faith is made void and the promise of no effect". What Paul established concerning the law is that it does not produce righteousness (Rom.10:4, Gal.2:21), It does not justify (Rom.5:1, Gal.3:11), We have died to it, having been delivered from it (Rom.7:6), by it we know sin (Rom.7:7), therefore It was our tutor to bring us to Christ , so that in the end we might be justified by faith (Gal.22-24), Those who WERE under the law have been redeemed and made sons by adoption (Gal.4:50, he said "were", because he established that we are no longer under the law (Gal.3:25), because as he said, the law has no power to give life (Gal.3:21)

There are some who quote Paul to say what they want to say rather than what Paul wanted to say.

1Jn 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

Joh_14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
 

williemac

New Member
Apr 29, 2012
1,094
65
0
Canada
1Jn 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

Joh_14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
O yes, ignore the bible verses that were shared and jump over to John to say what you want to say. But what did John intend to say? Did he intend to contradict what the Holy Spirit inspired Paul to write? I don't think so. John 3:23.." And this is His commandment; that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment" .

I still marvel at those who see the word "commandments" and stubbornly, against all that is written , insist that this automatically means the law or that it automatically means the ten that came from Mnt. Sinai.
 

Episkopos

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2011
12,894
19,455
113
65
Montreal
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
O yes, ignore the bible verses that were shared and jump over to John to say what you want to say. But what did John intend to say? Did he intend to contradict what the Holy Spirit inspired Paul to write? I don't think so. John 3:23.." And this is His commandment; that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment" .

I still marvel at those who see the word "commandments" and stubbornly, against all that is written , insist that this automatically means the law or that it automatically means the ten that came from Mnt. Sinai.

Faith is not the avoidance of God's law. Faith allows us to fulfill the law in that God empowers us to do so. .