Once Blood Bought and Justified, Always Blood Bought and Justified? ... You Betcha!

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Rapture Bound

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Yes, I've likewise learned to change my terminology since so many argue against the false OSAS. I've used "permanent rebirth", I like your "OJAJ" also.



A question here to ask is of whom does this speak?

2 Peter 2:20-22 - For if  after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

Who is "they"? So if you follow that back through the chapter to find the antecedant,

2 Peter 2:1-20 KJV
1) But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2) And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
3) And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
4) For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
5) And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
6) And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
7) And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
8) (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds)
9) The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
10) But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.
11) Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.
12) But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
13) And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;
14) Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
15) Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;
16) But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.
17) These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.
18) For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
19) While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
20) For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

This is not speaking of the regenerate.

Much love!

Here's some further clarification on my perspective on the matter :

Q: Can a genuine believer lose salvation?
A: Yes.

Q: Will a genuine believer lose salvation?
A: No.

It's one thing to state that something is possible and impossible at the same time, and quite another to say that although a circumstance is possible ... that it must necessarily [at least in one single instance] actuate or come to pass ... the former claim is simply nonsensical. Here I agree with the Molinist position [the "can/won't model of the perseverance of the saints'] which asserts that just because a circumstance [with it's accompanying consequences] could occur ... they simply will not occur in the case of a genuine believer.

"Salvation is secure. The promises of salvation are there to encourage the faint hearted and discouraged. The warnings are there to awake the complacent, presumptuous, backsliding or sinning. God utilizes both blessings and warnings in order to fulfill His promise to preserve all of His children [John 6:37-39].

For example, let's take the warning label on lawnmowers. Manufacturers are lawfully required to mark an easily seen warning that says something along these lines, "DANGER!! ... KEEP HANDS AND FEET AWAY TO AVOID SERIOUS INJURY OR DEATH"

(1) What is the purpose of the warning? ... to prevent serious injury or death.

(2) Is it logical or coherent to assert that any person will or must actually place their hands or feet under the lawnmower in order to make the warning real? ... I don't believe so.

(3) Whether or not a person complies with the warning does not do away with the actual consequences that accompany failure to do so.

(4) Whether or not, and which persons, which actually fail to heed the warning(s) and suffer the real consequences is an entirely distinct question.

(5) The warning passages [scattered throughout the scriptures] are just one of the many means that God utilizes to preserve His children safely into their Heavenly inheritance.

The above truth statements contain some of the most essential premises contained in the Molinist "can/won't model of perseverance". It's the model which I believe best answers the question of "what do we do with the various warning passages we find throughout scripture?"
 

amigo de christo

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I'll paraphrase a great reply to the often stated notion that eternal salvation is false.

When God chose to save us he most certainly is able to keep us.

God permanently saved us by his choice.
God is able to keep us . Let no man take off heeding from HE who is able to keep us .
If the apostels warned we warn . THERE IS A REASON WHY .
The SPIRIT DOES KNOW how to keep us safe yet the flesh of man always wants to stray .
ALL WARNINGS are for our good . ALL of them .
INCLUDING THIS ONE . The gospel by which you are saved , IF YOU KEEP IT IN MEMORY what i preached unto ya ,
Lest ye have believed in vain . Take note paul was writing to THE CHURCH .
THERE IS a reason WHY peter wrote what he did .
THERE is a reason why paul wrote as HE did . THE WARNINGS are for our good .
OSAS has produced a mindset that cometh not of the LORD .
Rather its a mindset that wont reign in the dangers of the flesh and following the flesh .
WE gotta preach all reminders .
NOW if anyone does come out , THEY WERE NEVER TRULY OF US . THAT is a fact .
BUT PAUL and all warned all TO CONTINUE IN HIM TO THE END .
YET OSAS says this is legalism to remind we must do so .
ITS not trusting in JESUS to remind the church THEY MUST continue in HIM .
SEE THE PROBLEM YET .
OSAS , while it preaches some truths , has omitted the dire necessary reminders and warnings
WHICH BY THE SPIRIT DO KEEP US SAFE . Learn the bible FOR YOU .
 

marks

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For example, let's take the warning label on lawnmowers. Manufacturers are lawfully required to mark an easily seen warning that says something along these lines, "DANGER!! ... KEEP HANDS AND FEET AWAY TO AVOID SERIOUS INJURY OR DEATH"
Of course, if you are indestructible, the warning is moot, even false, because no injury will result. If you don't know whether you are indestructible, the warning is needful, and to be heeded.

And if you use the machine according to the creator's intent, you won't be putting your hand there regardless.

What does 'fear of the loss of salvation' based on 'failing to sufficiently perform' do to the believer, to their faith?

Much love!
 
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Jack

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Thank you for those kind words my friend, and may I add that your question is very observant and important. The reason why I much prefer to use the term Once Justified, Always Justified [OJAJ] than Once Saved, Always Saved [OSAS] is two-fold. Firstly, OJAJ is a much more precise theological term than the more 'generic' term OSAS. Secondly, there is a true version of OSAS and a false version of OSAS. Unfortunately, because the true version of OSAS is rarely represented, those who oppose it are, for the most part, rejecting the incorrect version of it .... a kind of dismantling of a 'strawman' position. This reality becomes very frustrating for those of us in the minority position that also reject the counterfeit rendition of OSAS.
What exactly does that mean?
 

Rapture Bound

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Are you truly secure in Christ? - Part 1​


Have you ever experienced the assurance and security that you have been accepted as righteous in the sight of God, knowing that you will receive a Heavenly inheritance? Well, this is precisely what has been offered and promised in the gospel to all who have placed their faith in Christ’s substitutionary atoning work on their behalf.

2 Corinthians 5:21,”For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.”

The above scripture has been called “The Great Exchange” – God reconciled sinful man to Himself by making His sinless Son the sin bearer and dying in the sinner’s place. Jesus Christ paid the death penalty for the sinner so that God could set the sinner free and declare him righteous in His holy presence. Moreover, He did more than just forgive us our sins; He imputed the perfect righteousness of His Son to us. Justification, in the gospel sense, is God’s free forgiveness of a sinner, accepting him as righteous through the righteousness of Christ received by faith.

Galatians 3:10-13,”For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.” But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.” Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them. Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree).”

Galatians 2:21,”I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.”

Hebrews 10:14,” For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.”

The sobering question now becomes, “Have you ever truly placed your trust in these paramount gospel truths? All those who have been justified are now in the process of sanctification; and all those who are presently in that process are said to be perfected (positionally) in Christ forever – that is eternally! 1 Corinthians 6:11,”And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.”

The anxieties of those who are trusting in their own righteousness or good works [to one degree or another] can be mainly [if not entirely] be attributed to their inadequate apprehensions [due to either ignorance or rejection] of the nature, value, and efficacy of the remedy provided for them in Christ’s atonement. Within them there exists a latent feeling that there is still something that remains to be done or suffered by themselves in the way of satisfying the justice, averting the wrath, and propitiating or appeasing the favor of their righteous Judge.

I say “to one degree or another”, because there are some who have erred to such a degree, that they have failed altogether to receive “The Great Exchange.”- they are yet dead in their sins. It simply doesn’t get any more serious than this my friends. One of the vital evidences of a person falling into this category is the absence of ever possessing the assurance that they have been accepted as righteous in God’s sight and will receive a future Heavenly inheritance.

This is certainly not to say that those in the other category [those who have actually experienced the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit] will never have doubts or fears, or will possess an unwavering assurance subsequent to their conversion. The critical distinction here is this groups’ initial knowing that their sins have been forgiven, and that they will receive their Heavenly inheritance.

Here is another very important question to ponder. “Were we simply put in a position of possibly or potentially gaining an entrance into Heaven when we believed on Jesus’ blood sacrifice at the point of our regeneration?.. or was a future entrance into Heaven actualized and realized when we experienced our new birth?” It's very plain to see that the latter is the gospel truth ... it's truly the Good News that the Creator of the universe legitimately offers to all. Also, since the eternal security of the believer was purchased by the blood of Christ shed on Calvary's cross, surely it lies at the very heart of the gospel message!

Will you be a believer tomorrow morning?

Some answer this question by saying, “Yes, of course I’ll still be a believer, “once saved , always saved”. Well, what exactly do they mean by that? There are many who claim that regardless of whether we or anyone else wakes up as a believer tomorrow morning is largely irrelevant to whether they will spend eternity with Christ. The only thing that matters is that at some point in their lives they 'asked Jesus into their hearts'.

In other words, the decisive issue has nothing whatsoever to do with whether they actually persevere in the faith by faith, but whether they ever professed to believe in the Christian religion. If they did, they're in ... if they didn’t, they're out …. even if they were to perpetually renounce their faith in Jesus as Lord and Savior at some future point in time, or shamelessly live a lifestyle characterized by selfish, fleshly desires, or have never experienced the direct witness of the Holy Spirit that they will enter Heaven one day [per Romans 8:16].

This perspective merely offers a false sense of eternal security, it's indeed a counterfeit version of “OSAS”. It's one that clearly denies that the Holy Spirit will perform an inward transformational work in each and every person who places their trust in Christ's atoning work. And, because the one true perspective of the eternal security of the believer is often obscured and misrepresented by that counterfeit version, I prefer to call the eternal security of the believer by the acronym “OJAJ” [Once Justified, Always Justified] … it’s also, theologically speaking, much more clear and precise.

Others [of the Arminian variety] insist that there’s simply no guarantee that anyone will wake up as a believer tomorrow morning. Most will, but some likely won’t. Before tomorrow they may very well cross 'the line of no return'. They may sin so grievously and 'miss the cut', resulting in their cutting off from the saving grace of God; or, that they very well may abandon Jesus by failing to continue trusting in Christ's atoning work to save them. Therefore, according to their mindset, they may very well wake up tomorrow morning discovering that God has likewise abandoned them [although by that time they won’t care].

The scriptural evidence sides with neither position. All those who were genuinely regenerated by the Holy Spirit in the past [whether days or decades ago] will most assuredly wake up tomorrow morning being believers, yet being fully justified in the eyes of God; the God in whom they have placed their trust, will preserve them in their faith. They will never renounce Jesus as their Lord and Savior, they will never shamelessly or permanently return to a lifestyle dedicated to selfish ambitions and the sinful indulgences of their flesh.

(1) We must persevere in faith to enter heaven (2 Tim. 2:12; Heb.3:14;10:26). Not to persevere is to perish.

(2) God will preserve us in our faith even though at times we may doubt and wander from the path of righteousness. But He will always remain true to his promise by ensuring that none of His children will fall so far as to finally and forever fail. God will preserve us, we will in fact persevere, we will endure in the faith by faith.

Jude 1:1-2,”Jude, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, To those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ:”

1 Thessalonians 5:23-24,” Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. He who calls you is faithful, who will also do it.”

[Part 2 next :]
 

Rapture Bound

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Are you truly secure in Christ? - Part 2

God doesn’t simply require holiness; He promises it to all of His sons and daughters. If you know that you are in fact a child of God, then you can rest knowing that you will persevere. As Dr. Kenneth Keathley said, “perseverance should be viewed more as a promise than a requirement.” The necessary conditions/requirements/fruits/works mentioned throughout scripture will be manifested and produced in all true believers by the Holy Spirit. They will exist as the inevitable by-product of the regenerating power of the Holy Spirit and the new nature/heart miraculously delivered at the new birth (John 3:3-8; Titus 3:5).

Many have greatly underestimated, and failed to grasp the magnitude of the renewing, regenerating work of the Holy Spirit, and His radical transformational effect upon the believer’s nature.

2 Corinthians 5:17-21,”Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.”

What is the condition of renewal? ‘If any man be in Christ’-how distinctly that implies something more than human in Paul’s conception of Christ. It implies personal union with Him, so that He is the very element or atmosphere in which we live. And that union is brought about by faith in Him.

How does such a state of union with Christ make a man a new creation? It gives a new aim and center for our lives. Then we live not unto ourselves; then everything is different and looks so, for the center is shifted. That union introduces a constant reference to Him and contemplation of His death for us, it leads to self-abnegation.

It puts all life under the influence of a new love. ‘The love of Christ constraineth.’ As is a man’s love, so is his life. The mightiest devolution is to excite a new love, by which old loves and tastes are expelled. ‘A new affection’ has ‘expulsive power,’ as the new sap rising in the springtime pushes off the lingering withered leaves. So union with Him meets the difficulty arising from inclination still hankering after evil. The new love gives a new and mighty motive for obedience.

That union breaks the terrible chain that binds us to the past. ‘All died.’ The past is broken as much as if we were dead. It is broken by the great act of forgiveness. Sin holds men by making them feel as if what has been must be-an awful entail of evil. In Christ we die to our former self.

That union brings a new divine power to work in us. ‘I live, yet not I, but Christ liveth in me.’ It sets us in a new world which yet is the old. All things are changed if we are changed. They are the same old things, but seen in a new light, used for new purposes, disclosing new relations and powers. Earth becomes a school and discipline for heaven. The world is different to a blind man when cured, or to a deaf one,-there are new sights for the one, new sounds for the other. All this is true in the measure in which we live in union with Christ.

Ezekiel 36:26-28,”And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules. You shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers, and you shall be my people, and I will be your God.”

This wonderful promise to the nation of Israel was cut at Calvary, and the wonderful promise to give His people a new heart and put a new spirit within is fulfilled in the life of (all) who trust in the Lord Jesus Christ as the Savior of their soul and the Mediator for their sins. < What Does Ezekiel 36:26 Mean? >

Hebrews 8:10,”For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws into their minds, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.”
< Heb 8:10 Cross References (34 Verses) >

Romans 8:30,”Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.”

All those who have genuinely been justified through a new birth experience will be glorified [they will receive a Heavenly inheritance].

John 10:26-28,”But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.”

Note that Jesus said His [genuine] sheep follow Him ... rather than some will and some won’t follow Him, ... or that some will start following Him, but some will not continue following Him.

John 6:39,”This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.”
 

Rapture Bound

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God is able to keep us . Let no man take off heeding from HE who is able to keep us .
If the apostels warned we warn . THERE IS A REASON WHY .
The SPIRIT DOES KNOW how to keep us safe yet the flesh of man always wants to stray .
ALL WARNINGS are for our good . ALL of them .
INCLUDING THIS ONE . The gospel by which you are saved , IF YOU KEEP IT IN MEMORY what i preached unto ya ,
Lest ye have believed in vain . Take note paul was writing to THE CHURCH .
THERE IS a reason WHY peter wrote what he did .
THERE is a reason why paul wrote as HE did . THE WARNINGS are for our good .
OSAS has produced a mindset that cometh not of the LORD .
Rather its a mindset that wont reign in the dangers of the flesh and following the flesh .
WE gotta preach all reminders .
NOW if anyone does come out , THEY WERE NEVER TRULY OF US . THAT is a fact .
BUT PAUL and all warned all TO CONTINUE IN HIM TO THE END .
YET OSAS says this is legalism to remind we must do so .
ITS not trusting in JESUS to remind the church THEY MUST continue in HIM .
SEE THE PROBLEM YET .
OSAS , while it preaches some truths , has omitted the dire necessary reminders and warnings
WHICH BY THE SPIRIT DO KEEP US SAFE . Learn the bible FOR YOU .

You stated, "OSAS , while it preaches some truths , has omitted the dire necessary reminders and warnings".

Well, it all depends upon which version of OSAS you're talking about. There's a true and a false version of it. Refer to my post #26, where I give my perspective on the differences that exist between them. I like that ... " Learn the bible FOR YOU ." Yes indeed, in the end, we will all be held accountable to rightly understand the critical truths surrounding the gospel message ... the Holy Spirit will reveal them to all who ask.
 

marks

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Keep in mind that the dire consequences involved in this passage are strictly hypothetical [denoted by an 'if'].
Not hypothetical, rather, conditional.

It's like in Colossians 3, "if then you be risen with Christ . . .", this is speaking concerning those in whom the condition is fulfilled.

Much love!
 

marks

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Here I agree with the Molinist position [the "can/won't model of the perseverance of the saints'] which asserts that just because a circumstance [with it's accompanying consequences] could occur ... they simply will not occur in the case of a genuine believer.
I don't believe it's possible. I think Scripture is clear on that.

Having died and been made alive in Christ, our regeneration and new life were not brought about by anything we did or didn't do. It is entirely the work of Christ. Jesus Christ, the same yesterday, today, forever. He doesn't change, therefore, our life doesn't change, being His life in us.

"Behold, the Lamb of God, who carries away the sin of the world." "our intercessor forever" "who is he that condemns?" There are many many more.

Much love!
 
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Rapture Bound

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Not hypothetical, rather, conditional.

It's like in Colossians 3, "if then you be risen with Christ . . .", this is speaking concerning those in whom the condition is fulfilled.

Much love!

It's simply not logically coherent to claim that a conditional statement does not include a hypothetical component to it. The word "if" is inherently conditional and hypothetical ... it's not an 'either/or' scenario, rather a 'both/and'.
 
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Davy

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Now, there are some who mistakenly suppose that some of those redeemed, regenerated, born again children of God will ultimately become "un-redeemed", "un-regenerated" and "un-born again". That is to say, they will forfeit their salvation and ultimately eternally perish in the Lake of Fire. Nothing could be further from the gospel truth.
Those Bible Scriptures you quote, about those who are 'bought' by Christ Jesus, only applies to those of His that remain faithful waiting on His future coming and staying a spiritual "chaste virgin"(2 Corinthians 11).

Like Lord Jesus revealed in Matthew 7, many will come to Him in that day of His future return, saying, "Lord, lord...", that they cast out demons in His name, prophesied (preached) in His name, and did many wonderful works in His name, and Jesus will tell those to get away from Him, because they worked iniquity.

What is the most terrible 'iniquity' for our times at the end of this present world?

It is NOT remaining a spiritual "chaste virgin" waiting on Jesus Christ to come AFTER... the false-Christ that is to come first.

Apostle Paul in 2 Corinthians 11 called that falling away to the "another Jesus", and those who preach "another Jesus" that he and the other Apostles did not preach.

Since Lord Jesus revealed in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 that His coming to gather His Church will be immediately AFTER... the tribulation, then to go with another instead is to put one's salvation in danger.

This is especially the DANGER OF BELIEVING ON MAN'S FALSE PRE-TRIB RAPTURE THEORY, because it preaches a FALSE gathering PRIOR to when Jesus said.
 

ButterflyJones

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It's simply not logically possible for a conditional statement to not also include a hypothetical component to it. The word "if" is inherently conditional and hypothetical ... it's not an 'either/or' scenario, rather a 'both/and'.
Did Jesus use conditional terminology?
 

Ezra

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conditional statement to not also include a hypothetical component


where is that found in the Bible
 
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Ezra

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It's a way to life, to living a better life now, here, as we have confidence in His promises.

Much love!
there is no way to discuss osas vs osnas there is no real conclusion.. its like beating a dead horse expecting it to move:contemplate:
 

ButterflyJones

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there is no way to discuss osas vs osnas there is no real conclusion.. its like beating a dead horse expecting it to move:contemplate:
To the contrary.

If that horse was saved by the free irrevocable gift of God, that horse has eternal life.

See, it is a conclusion easily arrived at if someone reads the Gospel, respects Jesus keeps his word, and proceeds through life as a reborn blood bought former sinner now sealed for eternity by God, the Holy Spirit.

That conclusion?

OSNAS is a lie. And spits in the face of Christ each and every time any one of its proponents invoke it as that what refutes God's Gospel because their point, agenda, is to call God a liar.


See how easy the truth arrives at that conclusion.
 

marks

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there is no way to discuss osas vs osnas there is no real conclusion.. its like beating a dead horse expecting it to move:contemplate:
I understand, but I don't agree. Personally, I found learning this truth to be truly transformative.

Much love!
 
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