Bob Estey
Well-Known Member
I think you are changing the subject. Let's clear this one up first. God said homosexuality is an abomination (Leviticus 18:22). You seem to disagree with God. But you know that I am always going to believe God.
Embracing Doctrinal Diversity - Unity in diversity
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Seems as if you are as reluctant to answer the questions about the chapter as I am about agreeing with you.
1) To whom was it written?
2) When was it written?
3) For what purpose was it written?
4) Does it apply today? To whom? Same audience?
5) Did you read the whole chapter yet?
6) What about "rival wives"? (polygamy)
St. SteVen said:
How are you doing on your list?
Matthew 10:8 NIV
Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy,[a] drive out demons.
Freely you have received; freely give.
Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons.
Did Jesus command that? Either you believe Him or you don't.
How are you doing on your list?
Matthew 10:8 NIV
Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy,[a] drive out demons.
Freely you have received; freely give.
No. Here is what you wrote.
Jesus said to...
Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons.
Did Jesus command that? Either you believe Him or you don't.
Is that all you have? One verse taken out of context from the OT Law of Moses?
You are oversimplifying things to align with your politics. And misunderstanding the chapter.
Seems you want to own that one verse and disregard the rest.
The chapter approves of polygamy except in one very specific instance.
And a biblical search on the term "concubine" is quite revealing.
But I suppose you only care that one verse in the chapter aligns with your politics.
To whom was this said? When and why?
Why do you think this is relevant today? (politics?)
Bob Estey
Well-Known Member
I will discuss other things with you, but first I want to get this cleared up. The Lord said homosexuality is an abomination (Leviticus 18:22). You seem to disagree. How can you disagree with the Lord?
Bob Estey
Well-Known Member
I doesn't matter who he was saying it to. He was stating a fact. Does the fact change when the audience changes?
I'm not disagreeing with the Lord, I'm disagreeing with you.
Thanks for allowing me to clarify that.
You're being commanded to heal the sick and raise the dead is a fact as well.
Are you careful to choose which facts you abide by and which you don't?
Yes.
Did a change of audience change how the law was applied? (where your verse is from)
Galatians 3:23-25 NIV
Before the coming of this faith,[a] we were held in custody under the law,
locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed.
24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith.
25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.
Bob Estey
Well-Known Member
If you say homosexuality isn't an abomination, then it appears to me you ARE disagreeing with the Lord, who said homosexuality IS an abomination (Leviticus 18:22).
Thanks for extending the discussion. Perhaps we can get somewhere with this.
It may appear that way, that I am "disagreeing with the Lord", but I am seeing this as a complex issue. A gray issue.
I understand that you would like to make it a black and white issue, but... it is very complex.
How do you define homosexuality? What is it exactly to you?
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Bob Estey
Well-Known Member
A man having sexual relations with another man, or a woman having sexual relations with another woman.
Lambano
Well-Known Member
Leviticus 18:22 specifically prohibits "a man lying with a man as with a woman". I'll let you decide what that means specifically. And you'll notice that lesbians get a free pass.
Bob Estey
Well-Known Member
It's rather simple, isn't it, and it isn't much of a stretch to determine if men can't have same-sex relations, neither can women.
Lambano
Well-Known Member
The point is that you have to make an inference because the Bible doesn't actually say lesbian sex is an abomination.
Making inferences like that leads to doctrinal diversity.
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Bob Estey
Well-Known Member
Leviticus 18:22 makes it clear same-sex relations are an abomination. There will always be people who try to get around the rules. The thing is: The rules were made for our benefit.
Lambano
Well-Known Member
Just like every doctrinal difference is perfectly clear to its adherents? You have to read into it something that is not written explicitly.
So many people say they believe the Bible, but they don't even know what it says - and what it doesn't say.
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Okay, thanks. That helps.
Are you familiar with the related issues?
Same sex attraction, gender dysphoria, transgender, etc.
Even the range of hormonal distribution in both men and women.
Women with high levels of testosterone and men with high levels of estrogen.
Masculine behaviors in women and feminine mannerisms in men.
Where do you draw the line?
I suppose we should also define, or evaluate the word "abomination".
What does that mean in this context? Does God hate homosexuals?
Should we?
The abominable snowman. Pretty scary.
Patrick1966
Well-Known Member
We can discern that same-sex relations are wrong but we cannot judge/condemn them just like we can't judge/condemn the millions that get wasted every night.
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