Poll: Truth7t7 most famous replies

[Timtofly]

Both forty and two months and a thousand two hundred and sixty days symbolically represent time. Forty and two months symbolizes time given for tearing down, and a thousand two hundred ans sixty day symbolizes time given for building.

Revelation 11:2 (KJV) But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
Revelation 13:5 (KJV) And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

Revelation 11:3 (KJV) And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
Revelation 12:6 (KJV) And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Both of these references equal the same amount of time given the forces for doing evil upon the earth and the forces for doing good upon the earth. They symbolize a time, and times and half a time when the woman (Church) on earth is being both nourished and persecuted while in the wilderness (earth). She (the church on earth) is protected but must also come face to face with the great dragon that was cast out of heaven, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceives the whole world and his angels who were cast out with him.

Revelation 12:14 (KJV) And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

If equal amounts of time were not given to Satan for destroying as given to Christ for building, then Satan would be able to accuse God as he had in the days of Job. Satan would be able to accuse God, saying His Church could not have been built if the hedge of protection surrounding the saints were removed. Satan would be able to say if God had not given him equal opportunity to come against the saints on earth, he would be able to turn them totally away from God. Then the Kingdom of God would never be completed, and evil would altogether destroy all that God had created just as he had tried to do during the days before the flood.

Job 1:8-12 (KJV) And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought? Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land. But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face. And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.

Then this time is literal, even though symbolic of God's justice.

If this time is not literal what is the point of application? Your symbolic point was not about time but God's justice.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Your claim is "False"

A "Rod Of Iron" is a "Tool Of Destruction" that a Potter destroys clay vessels with

Jesus returns and destroy's the wicked like a Potter destroy's his vessels with a "Rod Of Iron" its that simple

Sad part is, many have been clearly shown this truth several times, and they continue to teach error

The "Rod Of Iron" is a "Tool Of Destruction" not a "Kings Scepter" as many falsely believe and teach

Psalm 2:9KJV
9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

Revelation 2:27KJV
27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

Revelation 19:15KJV
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

He WILL RULE them with a rod of Iron

It does not say he will destroy them with a Rod of Iron.

It means he will enforce his laws. and destroy evil.

 

[rwb]

No it does not. There is no fruit produced in this 1,000 year period.

Then what purpose does another one thousand years after Christ returns serve if no fruit is produced through it?

 

[Truth7t7]

He WILL RULE them with a rod of Iron

It does not say he will destroy them with a Rod of Iron.

It means he will enforce his laws. and destroy evil.

Your claim is "False" he will destroy them, brake and dash them in pieces

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

Psalm 2:9KJV
9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

Revelation 2:27KJV
27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Your claim is "False" he will destroy them, brake and dash them in pieces

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

Psalm 2:9KJV
9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

Revelation 2:27KJV
27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

Revelation 2:27KJV
27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

Rule - gk - poimanei - to shepherd, to guide, to correct

Nice try.. But no cigar

 

[Timtofly]

Then what purpose does another one thousand years after Christ returns serve if no fruit is produced through it?

"And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it."

Adam disobeyed God, and the earth was punished for 6 Days.

Christ obeyed God, and will finish the Day of Lord in place of Adam.

The earth is being subdued today by men according to sin.

The Day of the Lord, will allow Jesus to subdue the earth with righteousness.

Not to the effect sin needs to be changed nor eradicated. But to the effect sin will not even be allowed to enter creation.

 

[Truth7t7]

Revelation 2:27KJV
27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

Rule - gk - poimanei - to shepherd, to guide, to correct

Nice try.. But no cigar

Your living in denial of the very clear scripture before your eyes

Psalm 2:9KJV
9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Your living in denial of the very clear scripture before your eyes

Psalm 2:9KJV
9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

lol

I just quoted what the word of God in revelation says, and gave you the definition of the word rule...

I am sorry it does not fit your doctrine. but facts are still facts...

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You're only pretending that you don't know that a father chastises those whom he loves. You're only pretending that you don't understand how Jesus the Shepherd can shepherd the nations with an iron rod, after using the rod to smash His adversaries to pieces like pots.

Was my question too difficult for you? What is the reason you didn't answer it? Let me try one more time.

Do you think the English words "break" and "dash" should have been translated as "shepherd" here as well?

Psalm 2:8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. 9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
Is Jesus going to shepherd people "in pieces like a potter's vessel" after He returns?

This is interesting that you think you can read my mind like that and judge me and determine that I'm supposedly pretending to not know something. It's as if you think you are God. I'm not pretending ANYTHING. You are making things up. You know someone is desperate and has run out of arguments when they resort to something like this. I guess to you a description of Him breaking people, dashing them in pieces like a potter's vessel, smiting them and treading them in the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of God is just a case of Him gently shepherding people. I guess to you a description of people being killed and consumed by birds is meant to paint a picture of someone shepherding people. Okay then. If you don't want to deal with reality, so be it.

You're only pretending that you don't understand that pots and pots being smashed to pieces and rods of iron and the word shepherd are all metaphors.

LOL. Are you pretending to not know that a description alongside of that of Jesus smiting people and treading them in the winepress of God's wrath is a description of complete destruction?

Plus you're choosing to ignore the fact that the Revelation uses the word shepherd in the original language and not the word "rule", and you're only pretending that you don't understand that the meaning of the Greek word for shepherd doesn't magically change just because English Bibles may use a different word that also expresses the rulership of Christ, but lacks the meaning that the Greek word for shepherd expresses.

Do you understand that there is a difference in the purpose of a rod of iron compared to the purpose of a wooden staff? A wooden staff was used by shepherds to keep their sheep in line, but a rod of iron was used to ward off predators. You are interpreting the rod of iron the way a shepherd's wooden staff should be interpreted. A rod of iron is not used to shepherd sheep and keep them in line, it is used against predators that are trying to kill the sheep. Psalm 2 talks about Him breaking/destroying the heathen (His enemies) with a rod of iron. Are you pretending to not know what breaking them and dashing them into pieces like a potter's vessel means?

So I cannot take you seriously in this discussion.

I couldn't care less if you take me seriously or not. Everyone else here can see that I'm taking the passage in context and you are not. You are not differentiating between shepherding sheep with a wooden staff and shepherding predators with a rod of iron and every objective person here can see that. You are not taking the surrounding context of Jesus destroying His enemies rather than shepherding them into account. If you don't want to take that seriously, so be it.

Your arguments cannot be taken seriously at all in this discussion because you're doing a lot of pretending of ignorance (but this is what you normally do when you feel the need to defend Amil at all costs).

This is nonsense. Everyone else here can see that I'm not pretending at all and I'm taking the passages (Psalm 2:8-9 and Revelation 19:15-18) in context. They clearly paint a picture of the destruction of Christ's enemies and not of Him shepherding His sheep. It's too bad that you don't want to take context seriously and you'd rather get hung up on the meaning of a word without considering what it means in the context of these passages.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

lol

I just quoted what the word of God in revelation says, and gave you the definition of the word rule...

I am sorry it does not fit your doctrine. but facts are still facts...

Is Revelation 19:15 not a reference to Psalm 2:8-9? I think it clearly is. So, what does it mean for Him to "break" people with a rod of iron? Does it mean the same thing as your understanding of what it means to rule them? If not, then why does your understanding of Him ruling them not match what we read in the original prophecy from Psalm 2:8-9?

 

[Zao is life]

Was my question too difficult for you? What is the reason you didn't answer it? Let me try one more time.

Do you think the English words "break" and "dash" should have been translated as "shepherd" here as well?

Psalm 2:8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. 9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
Is Jesus going to shepherd people "in pieces like a potter's vessel" after He returns?

This is interesting that you think you can read my mind like that and judge me and determine that I'm supposedly pretending to not know something. It's as if you think you are God. I'm not pretending ANYTHING. You are making things up. You know someone is desperate and has run out of arguments when they resort to something like this. I guess to you a description of Him breaking people, dashing them in pieces like a potter's vessel, smiting them and treading them in the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of God is just a case of Him gently shepherding people. I guess to you a description of people being killed and consumed by birds is meant to paint a picture of someone shepherding people. Okay then. If you don't want to deal with reality, so be it.


LOL. Are you pretending to not know that a description alongside of that of Jesus smiting people and treading them in the winepress of God's wrath is a description of complete destruction?


Do you understand that there is a difference in the purpose of a rod of iron compared to the purpose of a wooden staff? A wooden staff was used by shepherds to keep their sheep in line, but a rod of iron was used to ward off predators. You are interpreting the rod of iron the way a shepherd's wooden staff should be interpreted. A rod of iron is not used to shepherd sheep and keep them in line, it is used against predators that are trying to kill the sheep. Psalm 2 talks about Him breaking/destroying the heathen (His enemies) with a rod of iron. Are you pretending to not know what breaking them and dashing them into pieces like a potter's vessel means?


I couldn't care less if you take me seriously or not. Everyone else here can see that I'm taking the passage in context and you are not. You are not differentiating between shepherding sheep with a wooden staff and shepherding predators with a rod of iron and every objective person here can see that. You are not taking the surrounding context of Jesus destroying His enemies rather than shepherding them into account. If you don't want to take that seriously, so be it.


This is nonsense. Everyone else here can see that I'm not pretending at all and I'm taking the passages (Psalm 2:8-9 and Revelation 19:15-18) in context. They clearly paint a picture of the destruction of Christ's enemies and not of Him shepherding His sheep. It's too bad that you don't want to take context seriously and you'd rather get hung up on the meaning of a word without considering what it means in the context of these passages.

Christ will smash His enemies to pieces like pots, with an iron rod when He returns. That is what Psalm 2:8 is referring to, and you know it. Christ the shepherd ruling with an iron rod comes afterward, and though you may not know it (you clearly don't) yet you are pretending not to understand that after the return of Christ He will not be using the rod to smash His enemies to pieces like pots.

I suppose you think immortal people following the resurrection, whose immortality will never be in themselves but in Christ who alone is immortal and has life in Himself, are not going to be capable of ever being in need of the loving but stern leadership of Christ the Shepherd because they will be "in eternity"?

(whatever you believe that is, because eternity has existed in Christ from eternity, and since His death and resurrection from the dead, Jesus has destroyed the power of the one who had the power over death, and He alone has the keys of death and hades - He alone, the One who alone is immortal and has (eternal) life in Himself).

I suppose you think immortal people following the resurrection, whose immortality will never be in themselves but in Christ who alone is immortal and has life in Himself, are not going to be capable of ever being in need of the loving but stern leadership of Christ the Shepherd because they will be "in eternity"?

PS: If you believe the words "You will not surely die" will apply after the resurrection to immortal humans who are eating freely of the tree of life, whose immortality is in Christ alone, in Him who alone is immortal and who alone has (eternal) life in Himself,

then you will never understand why you arguing against the fact that the apostle who penned the Revelation chose the words which translate literally as shepherd the nations with an iron rod in reference to what happens after Christ's return, is not going to make the slightest difference to the text, because it was not you who penned the Revelation, and neither you nor I chose the words that properly translates as shepherd the nations with an iron rod.

Everyone knows perfectly well that you are not unintelligent, so that you cannot understand that in Psalm 2:8 it's speaking about Christ smiting His enemies when He returns, but in the Revelation it's referring to what comes afterward.

You're pretending that you do not understand that after Christ has returned, He's not going to continue smiting the nations with an iron rod so as to break them in pieces like they are pots.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Christ will smash His enemies to pieces like pots, with an iron rod when He returns. That is what Psalm 2:8 is referring to, and you know it.

Of course I know that. That is what I've been saying all along.

Christ the shepherd ruling with an iron rod comes afterward, and though you may not know it (you clearly don't) yet you are pretending not to understand that after the return of Christ He will not be using the rod to smash His enemies to pieces like pots.

Who exactly do you think will He rule with a rod of iron considering He will have already destroyed His enemies with His rod of iron? If you look at Revelation 19:15 carefully you should see that it paints a picture of complete destruction and not shepherd ruling in the way you're thinking of it.

I suppose you think immortal people following the resurrection, whose immortality will never be in themselves but in Christ who alone is immortal and has life in Himself, are not going to be capable of ever being in need of the loving but stern leadership of Christ the Shepherd because they will be "in eternity"?

He will not be ruling immortal people with a rod of iron. I'm sorry, but that idea is ludicrous. Look at Psalm 2:8-9. He uses His rod of iron against the heathen, not believers. You are taking everything out of context. Please do some research on the tools shepherds use. You seem to be confusing the wooden staffs that they use to tend to their sheep with the rods of iron that they use to ward off predators.

(whatever you believe that is, because eternity has existed in Christ from eternity, and since His death and resurrection from the dead, Jesus has destroyed the power of the one who had the power over death, and He alone has the keys of death and hades - He alone, the One who alone is immortal and has (eternal) life in Himself).

What I believe eternity is? It is timelessness. But, it's not something anyone is experiencing bodily yet except for Jesus.

I suppose you think immortal people following the resurrection, whose immortality will never be in themselves but in Christ who alone is immortal and has life in Himself, are not going to be capable of ever being in need of the loving but stern leadership of Christ the Shepherd because they will be "in eternity"?

Are you just making things up as you go along? Do you think that people will still be able to sin at that point? Why would we need correction at that point? You're not making any sense.

PS: If you believe the words "You will not surely die" will apply after the resurrection to immortal humans who are eating freely of the tree of life, whose immortality is in Christ alone, in Him who alone is immortal and who alone has (eternal) life in Himself,

At least you're saying "If..." instead of trying to tell me what I'm thinking, as if you are God. So, that's progress. But, with that said, I have no idea of what you're trying to say here. So, can you elaborate on what you're saying here?

then you will never understand why you arguing against the fact that the apostle who penned the Revelation chose the words which translate literally as shepherd the nations with an iron rod in reference to what happens after Christ's return, is not going to make the slightest difference to the text, because it was not you who penned the Revelation, and neither you nor I chose the words that properly translates as shepherd the nations with an iron rod.

Again, the description of that is alongside descriptions of Jesus destroying them. Should that just be ignored? How exactly can He rule over people that He has just destroyed?

Everyone knows perfectly well that you are not unintelligent, so that you cannot understand that in Psalm 2:8 it's speaking about Christ smiting His enemies when He returns, but in the Revelation it's referring to what comes afterward.

What are you talking about? In Revelation 19:15 it makes reference to Him smiting His enemies and treading them in the winepress of God's wrath. So, that establishes the context of what Him ruling the nations with a rod of iron means. So, how is the context there any different than what is written in Psalm 2:8-9?

You're pretending that you do not understand that after Christ has returned, He's not going to continue smiting the nations with an iron rod so as to break them in pieces like they are pots.

Here you go acting like you know what I'm thinking again, as if you are God. You should not pretend to be God like that. Where did I say that I believe after He has returned and has smited the heathen with an iron rod that He will continue doing that? I haven't. So, I'm not pretending to not understand something that I already understand and have never said otherwise.

 

[marks]

lol

I just quoted what the word of God in revelation says, and gave you the definition of the word rule...

I am sorry it does not fit your doctrine. but facts are still facts...

Revelation 2:26-27 KJV
26) And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
27) And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

This place does not say that Jesus will rule (lit. Shepherd) the nations with a rod of iron. Jesus is making a promise to the person who overcomes, and keeps His works to the end, that is the person who shall have power over nations, and that person - not Jesus, rather, the overcomer - will shepherd them with a rod of iron.

Although how would someone accept this saying when they have already concluded that sort of thing won't be happening at that time?

Much love!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Revelation 2:26-27 KJV
26) And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
27) And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

This place does not say that Jesus will rule (lit. Shepherd) the nations with a rod of iron. Jesus is making a promise to the person who overcomes, and keeps His works to the end, that is the person who shall have power over nations, and that person - not Jesus, rather, the overcomer - will shepherd them with a rod of iron.

Although how would someone accept this saying when they have already concluded that sort of thing won't be happening at that time?

So, what exactly do you think it means to rule/shepherd with a rod of iron and what evidence do you have to support your opinion? Please be specific.

Do you take the original prophecy into account when considering what it means?

Psalm 2:8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. 9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

The Hebrew word translated as "break" there means just that: to break or to destroy something. So, how does Psalm 2:9 factor into your understanding of Revelation 2:27 and Revelation 19:15 (if it factors in at all)? Shouldn't we associate the ruling/shepherding with a rod of iron with destruction as Psalm 2:9 does? Also, do you think the references to Him smiting/destroying the nations (heathen) in Revelation 19:15-18 should be taken into account as well?

Also, should other scripture be taken into account here? I believe so. What does other scripture indicate that Jesus will do to the heathen when He returns?

2 Thessalonians 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

This seems to line up perfectly with Psalm 2:8-9. But, if ruling with a rod of iron doesn't have anything to do with destroying the enemies of Christ and His church, then tell me exactly who Jesus and the overcomers will be ruling with a rod of iron after He takes "vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ" and punishes them "with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord"?

 

[Zao is life]

Pffft. Lol. Falsely accusing someone of pretending "to know what you're thinking as though he is God" when what you are asserting implies that you are thinking that very thing even though you are not, is as transparent as glass and as old as the fall of man. Grow up (your favorite saying - so take your own advice, please).

Neither am I judging you when merely trying to point out the problems with your thinking. Grow up with regard to that false accusation too.​

Do you think that people will still be able to sin at that point? Why would we need correction at that point? You're not making any sense.

Both Genesis 2:7 and John 3:8 speak of the Spirit of God breathing His (eternal) life into man.

Only Jesus has immortality | eternal life in Himself:
​

"By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of His mouth." (Psalm 33:6).

"The Word was in the beginning with God. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men." (John 1:2 & 4).

-- He (Christ) alone possesses immortality and lives in unapproachable light, whom no human has ever seen or is able to see. To him be honor and eternal power! Amen. --- 1 Timothy 6:15-16, NETfree version.

-- "For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has given to the Son to have life within Himself" -- John 5:26

-- "I am the First and the Last, and the Living One, and I became dead, and behold, I am alive for ever and ever, Amen. And I have the keys of hades and of death." -- Revelation 1:17-18.

God alone is immortal, God alone has life in Himself. It follows that eternal záō (eternal life | immortality) is in Christ alone.

​

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Believing the words "You will not surely die", which implies that mankind's (the creature's) immortality is in himself rather than in the Word of God (the Creator) in whom alone is (eternal) life is what caused Adam to consider sinning in the first place.
​

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"But that which you have, hold fast until I come. And he who overcomes and keeps My works to the end, to him I will give power over the nations. And he will shepherd [poimaino] them with a rod of iron, as the vessels of a potter they will be broken to pieces, even as I received from My Father. And I will give him the Morning Star. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches." Rev.2:25-29.

Being given power over the nations will not happen before He comes, and only those who overcome and keep His works to the end are promised that they will receive power over the nations:

And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the witness of Jesus and for the Word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast nor his image, nor had received his mark on their foreheads, nor in their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. Rev.20:4

They are also the only ones who are promised that the second death will have no power over them, because they have overcome.

"And Jesus said to them, Truly I say to you that you who have followed Me, in the regeneration, when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of His glory, you also shall sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel." Mat.19:28.
​

The twelve tribes of Israel who they will be ruling over are not genetic descendants of the Jews. They are the twelve tribes of Israel who are in Christ. The apostles did not rule over "the twelve tribes of the Jews" after the death and resurrection of Christ, and this is not going to occur before he comes:

"But that which you have, hold fast until I come. And he who overcomes and keeps My works to the end, to him I will give power over the nations. And he will shepherd [poimaino] them with a rod of iron, as the vessels of a potter they will be broken to pieces, even as I received from My Father. And I will give him the Morning Star. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches." Rev.2:25-29.

And the word "shepherd" has a specific meaning. Though you quite obviously believe you can, you cannot change the meaning of the word "shepherd" just because it's suits you, and whenever it suits you. Though you try, you did not pen the text, and the scholars are not going to try and corrupt the oldest existing manuscripts just to suit you.

At the close of the thousand years Satan will be released again and will go out deceiving the nations in the four corners of the earth again. Satan is not currently bound (another lie) from being able to do that.

Adam had direct communication with God before he sinned. He lived in communion with God.

If Adam could believe that he would not surely die (believing that his immortality | eternal life is in himself instead of in Christ alone. in whom alone is life, and who alone has eternal life in Himself) and as a result be deceived into considering the sin the deceiver was suggesting, then so can any son and daughter of Adam, even though they have been resurrected and are living forever in their immortal bodies.

Those who trust in themselves and in their own selves always fall, whether it be trusting in their own faithfulness and ability to overcome (like Peter before He denied Jesus), or whether it be in their "own" immortality.

Adam = mankind (the creature). We are no different to either Adam, or Peter. What we believe when faced between a choice of two things, such as between dying you will die and you will not surely die (implying that his immortality | eternal life was in himself instead of in HIs Creator, in who alone is eternal life),

or whether it's believing that after the resurrection he will never be deceived again (though Satan will not be destroyed in the lake of fire until a thousand years after the beast and false prophet), whatever we believe when faced between a choice of two things will decide our eternal destiny, because it all began and all begins with this choice:

"dying you will die".

"you will not surely die".

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Pffft. Lol. Falsely accusing someone of pretending "to know what you're thinking as though he is God" when what you are asserting implies that you are thinking that very thing even though you are not, is as transparent as glass and as old as the fall of man. Grow up (your favorite saying - so take your own advice, please).

Neither am I judging you when merely trying to point out the problems with your thinking. Grow up with regard to that false accusation too.​

You are the one who made false accusations. Why not acknowledge that? You pretended to know what I was thinking, but you do not. Are you too proud to admit that? Only God knows what I'm thinking, not you. You are clearly the one who needs to grow up. You're not pointing out anything by saying I'm pretending to do this or that without even knowing what I'm thinking except that you think you have abilities that only God has.

Both Genesis 2:7 and John 3:8 speak of the Spirit of God breathing His (eternal) life into man.

Only Jesus has immortality | eternal life in Himself:
​

"By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of His mouth." (Psalm 33:6).

"The Word was in the beginning with God. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men." (John 1:2 & 4).

-- He (Christ) alone possesses immortality and lives in unapproachable light, whom no human has ever seen or is able to see. To him be honor and eternal power! Amen. --- 1 Timothy 6:15-16, NETfree version.

-- "For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has given to the Son to have life within Himself" -- John 5:26

-- "I am the First and the Last, and the Living One, and I became dead, and behold, I am alive for ever and ever, Amen. And I have the keys of hades and of death." -- Revelation 1:17-18.

God alone is immortal, God alone has life in Himself. It follows that eternal záō (eternal life | immortality) is in Christ alone.

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Believing the words "You will not surely die", which implies that mankind's (the creature's) immortality is in himself rather than in the Word of God (the Creator) in whom alone is (eternal) life is what caused Adam to consider sinning in the first place.
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"But that which you have, hold fast until I come. And he who overcomes and keeps My works to the end, to him I will give power over the nations. And he will shepherd [poimaino] them with a rod of iron, as the vessels of a potter they will be broken to pieces, even as I received from My Father. And I will give him the Morning Star. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches." Rev.2:25-29.

Being given power over the nations will not happen before He comes, and only those who overcome and keep His works to the end are promised that they will receive power over the nations:

And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the witness of Jesus and for the Word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast nor his image, nor had received his mark on their foreheads, nor in their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. Rev.20:4

They are also the only ones who are promised that the second death will have no power over them, because they have overcome.

"And Jesus said to them, Truly I say to you that you who have followed Me, in the regeneration, when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of His glory, you also shall sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel." Mat.19:28.
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The twelve tribes of Israel who they will be ruling over are not genetic descendants of the Jews. They are the twelve tribes of Israel who are in Christ. The apostles did not rule over "the twelve tribes of the Jews" after the death and resurrection of Christ, and this is not going to occur before he comes:

"But that which you have, hold fast until I come. And he who overcomes and keeps My works to the end, to him I will give power over the nations. And he will shepherd [poimaino] them with a rod of iron, as the vessels of a potter they will be broken to pieces, even as I received from My Father. And I will give him the Morning Star. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches." Rev.2:25-29.

And the word "shepherd" has a specific meaning. Though you quite obviously believe you can, you cannot change the meaning of the word "shepherd" just because it's suits you, and whenever it suits you. Though you try, you did not pen the text, and the scholars are not going to try and corrupt the oldest existing manuscripts just to suit you.

At the close of the thousand years Satan will be released again and will go out deceiving the nations in the four corners of the earth again. Satan is not currently bound (another lie) from being able to do that.

Adam had direct communication with God before he sinned. He lived in communion with God.

If Adam could believe that he would not surely die (believing that his immortality | eternal life is in himself instead of in Christ alone. in whom alone is life, and who alone has eternal life in Himself) and as a result be deceived into considering the sin the deceiver was suggesting, then so can any son and daughter of Adam, even though they have been resurrected and are living forever in their immortal bodies.

Those who trust in themselves and in their own selves always fall, whether it be trusting in their own faithfulness and ability to overcome (like Peter before He denied Jesus), or whether it be in their "own" immortality.

Adam = mankind (the creature). We are no different to either Adam, or Peter. What we believe when faced between a choice of two things, such as between dying you will die and you will not surely die (implying that his immortality | eternal life was in himself instead of in HIs Creator, in who alone is eternal life),

or whether it's believing that after the resurrection he will never be deceived again (though Satan will not be destroyed in the lake of fire until a thousand years after the beast and false prophet), whatever we believe when faced between a choice of two things will decide our eternal destiny, because it all began and all begins with this choice:

"dying you will die".

"you will not surely die".

What is the point of all this? What does any of this have to do with what we were talking about, which was Jesus ruling with a rod of iron?

 

[Zao is life]

You are the one who made false accusations. Why not acknowledge that? You pretended to know what I was thinking, but you do not. Are you too proud to admit that? Only God knows what I'm thinking, not you. You are clearly the one who needs to grow up. You're not pointing out anything by saying I'm pretending to do this or that without even knowing what I'm thinking except that you think you have abilities that only God has.


What is the point of all this? What does any of this have to do with what we were talking about, which was Jesus ruling with a rod of iron?

You're claiming or implying that the only thing that God does with the rod of iron is what Psalm 2:9 says He is going to do - smite them with a rod of iron, and you're claiming that He does not rule/shepherd with a rod of iron.

Note: The iron rod is a metaphor:

1. God ruled/shepherded His people of the house of Israel with an iron rod, and the time came when He smote them with the same iron rod, and sent them into exile in the nations, the iron rod in His hand with which He smote them at the time, being the king of Assyria.

2. God ruled/shepherded His people Judah with an iron rod, and the time came when He smote them with the same iron rod, and sent them into exile in Babylon, the iron rod in His hand with which He smote them at the time, being the king of Babylon.

3. God ruled/shepherded His people Judah with an iron rod, and the time came when He smote them with the same iron rod, and sent them into exile in the nations, the iron rod in His hand with which He smote them at the time, being Titus and the Romans.

4. Jesus rules/shepherds His people with an iron rod, and the time is coming when He will smite them with the same iron rod at the hand of the beast, because of the waywardness of His people.

5. The Revelation states that He will rule/shepherd (the Greek word used in the Revelation translates as shepherd) the nations with an iron rod, and He will use the same iron rod to judge the nations when He returns, the iron rod in His hand being Himself.

6. The Revelation states that He will rule/shepherd (the Greek word used in the Revelation translates as shepherd) the nations with an iron rod, and He will use the same iron rod to judge the Gog-Magog rebellion of the nations at the close of the thousand years, the iron rod in His hand being Himself.

I found it difficult to believe that someone as knowledgeable of scripture as you are, will actually not know this. I really did believe, until now, that you understood the difference between ruling/shepherding, and smiting. This is why I believed you were merely pretending not to know the difference.

Forgive me for having been wrong, but judging by what I've seen of your knowledge of scripture, it was an easy assumption to make - but maybe, once again, the reason why you refuse to understand the difference between ruling/shepherding and smiting when it comes to what is written in the Revelation, is because of your determination to defend a theology (i.e, Amil) which just does not add up under the scrutiny of all scripture), and to instead interpret scripture always in such a way as to comply with that theology.

 

[No Pre-TB]

This place does not say that Jesus will rule (lit. Shepherd) the nations with a rod of iron.

Cambridge:
shall rule them] Lit., shall be their shepherd.

Jamieson-Fausett-Brown:
rule—literally, "rule as a shepherd."

Vicent:
Lit., shall shepherd

As one says,
so from this passage and Revelation 12:5, Revelation 19:15 we see that he accepted “rule” as the right reading. Apart from this, shepherd is used in the Old Testament of human and superhuman rulers often enough to suggest its use here. The same metaphor is found in Classical Greek.

Perhaps this is the reason many take this to literally mean, Shepherd.

 

[marks]

Cambridge:
shall rule them] Lit., shall be their shepherd.

Jamieson-Fausett-Brown:
rule—literally, "rule as a shepherd."

Vicent:
Lit., shall shepherd

As one says,
so from this passage and Revelation 12:5, Revelation 19:15 we see that he accepted “rule” as the right reading. Apart from this, shepherd is used in the Old Testament of human and superhuman rulers often enough to suggest its use here. The same metaphor is found in Classical Greek.

Perhaps this is the reason many take this to literally mean, Shepherd.

Jesus is portrayed as our Shepherd, with Whom we find rest. In that day He will be the Shepherd of the world, and none shall defy Him.

Much love!

 

[No Pre-TB]

Jesus is portrayed as our Shepherd, with Whom we find rest. In that day He will be the Shepherd of the world, and none shall defy Him.

I agree with that statement. I was only replying to your previous one: This place does not say that Jesus will rule (lit. Shepherd) the nations with a rod of iron.

I was offering a possible reason why some understand rule the nations as Shepherd the nations.