‘I SAID, YOU ARE GODS’?

[WalkInLight]

Yes - we don't understand that God called us "gods" and why He did so. The above demonstrates the problems and our understanding pretty well.

There are a number of assumptions made; and it is not surprising that they are made, but each show that we don't actually talked to Him like we should! Which also explains why we will also die like men - which God also said right after said we are gods!

Ps 82:5-7 They do not know nor do they understand; They walk about in darkness; All the foundations of the earth are shaken.
I said, “You are gods, And all of you are sons of the Most High.
“Nevertheless you will die like men And fall like any one of the princes.”

Take a close look at the verses above and let's go through them!!!

First - God said we don't understand!!
He does not lie, so we don't understand!! So all our trying to give a long understanding will not change that which God said!! WE don't understand!!

Next - God said we are gods, and even sons of the Most High!! Again God said that so it is true!! Now, and I believe I already stated this, "I don't feel like a god!!! Now you will like to find faults in others as opposed to actually considering the verses and asking the Lord about them and listening to His response! This failure to actually turn to Him and listen to Him explains a whole lot of this!!

It is explains a statement like "I am cautious when attempts are made to try and claim the miraculous is a badge of authority when Jesus declares it is love one to another which is reality of God at work among His people"

That is a statement of the person making it and not God - as can be seen in the "I am cautious"!! That is a statement of the persons belief and is not a statement that comes from actually hearing the Lord!! it is essentially the same as my statement "I don't feel like a god!!" Both indicate 'doubt in God', as opposed to 'faith in God'!! Faith in God comes from actually hearing Him talk to you personally!! (See Rom 10)

When He told His disciples to go out in pairs and heal the sick, that got the faith to go and do it; understanding that God had indeed given them the authority to do it!! Indeed, He also told them to tell people that the Kingdom of God had come near - giving them the realization to understand that the instructions were backed up by the power of the Kingdom of God. So they prayed by faith that people would get healed, that demons might get cast out, and it happened because they were sons of the Most High (gods) and had the authority to get the power of God that comes from His Kingdom (the angels that serve God)

Still, it didn't always happen.

Some places they were not welcomed!! People's pride (their feeling that they know all about God, as opposed to thinking they need to hear from God) gets in their way, and there are not a welcoming people, but rather a religious people, always leaning on their own understanding instead of actually seeking the voice of the Lord themselves!

And then they themselves also didn't listen by faith while they went. So they lacked instruction and also faith to believe. Which explains why His disciples had to ask Jesus afterward about what happened:

Mark 9: 28,29 When He came into the house, His disciples began questioning Him privately, “Why could we not drive it out?” And He said to them, “This kind cannot come out by anything but prayer.”

He reproves those He loves and teaches them!! We need that! That seeking Him and His voice is what helps us grow in understanding!! So those who don't actually seek Him and His voice, don't grow in understanding!!

They don't even understand that God is love - not us!! If they did their message would be about getting others to listen to Him - as opposed to thinking they are the loving one!!

So is not the worst statement made above this:

"If church history teaches us anything as soon as people get into super-spiritual power everything goes wrong, because the healer becomes the focus rather than Jesus, and financial gain takes over and greed.

Did we not even come to understand that "church history" doesn't teach us, but rather Jesus Christ does?? To say that clearly indicates a person is leaning on their own understanding instead of seeking the voice of Jesus Christ!!

And going out by two like Jesus personally them to do, did not "ruin them" instead it helped give them understanding and caused them to seek Jesus Christ personally again for more understanding!!

As a personal testimony for an example: The Lord asked me to work in a Christian healing ministry for five years. The amount of miracles I saw was incredible, but it was extremely educational, and even humbling!! And most importantly it caused me to turn to Jesus and listen to Him even more!! And should I conclude that is was not a loving thing to do?? People who don't listen to Him simply can not understand! Simply because understanding comes from listening to Him!!

Prov 2:6 For the LORD gives wisdom;
From His mouth come knowledge and understanding.

You are right about me not abdicating critical thinking when faced with
"The Lord asked me"

If we are on speaking terms with God, like a question and answer session, why have scripture or fellowship or anything but a series of questions for the Lord and listening to His reply, like a robot, tell me what to do and I will do it.

We are called to test the spirit.

Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,
but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.
1 John 4:1-3

Peter had a dispute with Paul over circumcision and its significance. Now in one sense they could simply ask God and that would be the answer, but they did not. It had to be worked through between them, looking at their positions for each other, the work the Lord had done in their lives and scripture. Finally a conclusion was drawn.

Jesus came in the authority of the Father and relied on scripture to be His guide and basis. Now this is odd, but in the hierarchy of eternity Gods word is eternal and speaks for itself. Let me compare a disciple saying "Jesus said "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life" and God speaking it out loud. The meaning is the same, and its authority, so what matters are the words not how they are spoken.

This is why Jesus waited for the disciples to declare He was the Son of God, not because Jesus said the words but because they have come to know Him and in knowing Him testify to this reality.

If we do not do this we will follow false teachers because they sound authoritative. The people of the Kingdom hear Jesus's voice and follow. Whatever miracles or wonders are performed if the authority does not respect Jesus's word they are not of God. It is why so much of what is called Christian has left the faith and listens to liars and corrupt preachers who follow money and influence over Gods word and His gospel.

John wrote this
We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands.
The man who says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
But if anyone obeys his word, God's love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him:
1 John 2:3-5

John is addressing how we know Jesus. Notice he does not say
"a person is leaning on their own understanding instead of seeking the voice of Jesus Christ"

John is saying our authority comes from our hearts and our walk.
This fundamentally is the problem addressed by Jesus in His warning

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?'
Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'
Mat 7:21-23

Relying on the miraculous for authority without obeying Jesus is the road of evildoers.
Jesus does not say such authority did not occur just He is not part of it.

Ironically what I am declaring here is bread and butter preaching and theology, and indicates through the lack of agreement where peoples hearts actually are and their life experience. God bless you

 

[Karl Peters]

you are gods

Jesus used a quote from Ps. 82:6 ). It used elohim to refer to human judges. These judges (though wicked) are called "sons of the Most High."

These Jews were attacking Jesus because although He was a man He claimed to be: (1) the Son of God and (2) one with God. Yet other men (cf. Exod. 4:16; 7:1; 22:8,9; Ps. 82:6; 138:1) were called "gods."

Jesus' rabbinical argument seems to follow this line: the Scriptures are true, men are called elohim, therefore, why do you call Me a blasphemer for asserting that I am the Son of God? The term Elohim is PLURAL in Hebrew but translated SINGULAR and used a SINGULAR VERB when referring to the OT Deity. This may be a typical Johannine word play: (1) a term that has two connotations and (2) a Greek question that expects a "yes" answer.

----------------------------------
82:5-8 This strophe cannot refer to humans but must refer to angels.

1. "all the foundations of the earth are shaken"

2. You are gods (i.e., elohim)

3. sons of the Most High

4. you will die like men

5. fall like one of the princes ("princes" used of national angels in Dan. 10:5,20; but humans in Isa. 3:13-14)

6. judge the earth. . .possess all the nations



82:5 Those addressed by the Psalm are characterized as

1. they do not know

2. they do not understand

3. they walk in darkness

These, like Ps. 82:2-4, can refer to Israelis. This is why some commentators take "elohim" in Ps. 82:1b and 6a to refer to human judges (cf. Exod. 21:6; 22:8-9). I think the evidence of the Psalm as a whole points to national angels.

If Ps. 82:2-4 shows YHWH speaking, who is speaking in Ps. 82:5-7? It must be the psalmist himself as the first words of Ps. 82:6, 7, and 8 as a whole, seem to demand. However, it must be admitted that they could also reflect the words of YHWH Himself (UBS Handbook, p. 730).

-"They walk about in darkness" The verb "walk about" (BDB 229, KB 246, Hithpael imperfect) denotes lifestyle action.

The "darkness" is a metaphor for evil or rejection of God's revelation. The concept is expressed in several idioms.

1. ways of darkness - Pro. 2:13; 4:19; Isa. 9:2; 50:10; John 3:19-20

2. works of darkness - Job 24:13-17; Jer. 23:12

3. grope in darkness - Deut. 28:29; Job 5:14; 12:25; Isa. 59:9-10

4. call light darkness - Job 17:12; Isa. 5:20

Spiritual, intentional blindness is a terrible thing. Both angels and humans purposefully choose not to see (cf. Isa. 24:21)! They put out their own spiritual eyes!
3) "I said, ye are gods?" (hoti ego eipa theoi este) "That I said, you all are gods?" alluding to Psa_82:6; Rom_13:1. The term "gods" is used, not to refer to the one true God, or to idol gods, but to the appointed leaders of the Jewish people. The Psalms are therefore referred to in a very general sense as the law.

I said, ye are gods? which is spoken to civil magistrates, so called, because of their authority and power; and because they do, in some sort, represent the divine majesty, in the government of nations and kingdoms.

Many of the Jewish writers, by "gods", understand "the angels". The Targum paraphrases the words thus:


"I said ye are accounted as angels, as the angels on high, all of you;''
and to this sense some of their commentators interpret it.

Jarchi's gloss is, ye are gods; that is, angels; for when I gave the law to you, it was on this account, that the angel of death might not any more rule over you:

the note of Aben Ezra is, "and the children of the Most High": as angels; and the sense is, your soul is as the soul of angels:

hence the (x) Jew charges Christ with seeking refuge in words, that will not profit, or be any help to him, when he cites these words, showing that magistrates are called gods, when the sense is only, that they are like to the angels in respect of their souls: but let it be observed, that it is not said, "ye are as gods", as in Gen_3:5, but "ye are gods"; not like unto them only, but are in some sense gods; and besides, to say that they are like to angels, with respect to their souls, which come from above, is to say no more of the judges of the earth, than what may be said of every man: to which may be added, that this objector himself owns, that judges are called אלהים, "gods", as in Exo_22:9; the cause of both parties shall come before אלהים, "the judges"; and that even the word is used in this sense in this very psalm, from whence these words are cited, Psa_82:1, "he judgeth among" אלהים, "the gods"; and both Kimchi and Ben Melech interpret this text itself in the same way, and observe, that judges are called gods, when they judge truly and aright: all which is sufficient to justify our Lord in the citation of this passage, and the use he makes of it.
Gill.

J.

I sometimes find writings such as the above somewhat interesting, but did Jesus in the Scriptures ever sound like He spoke in such a way as is written above? Never!

When I listen to the Lord and I find that He speaks more like what we actually find written in the Scripture. He sometimes uses parables. But He will give you some explanation afterwards if you ask. He, as the Lord, also gives me instructions. The first words I heard from Him was, "Read Your Bible". And there are words of encouragement and love that He speaks to me. The most common words I hear from Him are, "Karl, I love you." I hear that and sometimes have heard those words numerous times in the same day. And another endearing word that He speaks to me is, "son"!!!

Yeah, He often calls me "son" as in "Son, I appreciate what you do for me.", or "Son, why don't you come for a walk with me." Yet none of what He tells me comes across like the writing above. But I can ask Him about writing like the above, can't I? Yeah, I can. Is it not the writings of men, and them looking to other men and not God?

It was pointed out to me that it was written above:

rabbinical argument seems to follow this line

This may be a typical Johannine word play

So the author of the post is, by his own statements, looking to 'rabbinical arguments' and ' Johannine word play',. instead of looking to the Lord as his Teacher!!! So who are we to look to: "wise men" or the Lord our God?

I tell you truly, that if a man is wise it is because He looks to God and what the Word of God, Jesus Christ, has to say to Him.

I try to do that, seek the Lord and listen to Him! Of course the Holy Spirit is not the only spirit around, but it is also written that if we seek we find. I believe in Jesus Christ because when I seek Him I find Him with that small voice of His. I find the One who tells me He loves me, and who calls me His son, and the One who teaches me!! And He does not ever sound like the above post.

Oh, I my studies with Him, He did talk to me about "elohim", many God in the plural sense. Was not "elohim" used in Genisis and before things, like men, were even created?

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God (elohiym, el-o-heem': plur of gods in the ordinary sense) created the heavens and the earth...

So before there were any men, there was God and that in plural in the ordinary sense!!! How then can it now be used to mean more that God who was in the beginning??? Is it because of this:

Jn 17: 19 - 22 “For their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they themselves also may be sanctified in truth. “I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word; hat they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me. “The glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, just as We are one;

Is it because He calls us sons and daughters of the Most High if we decide to listen to Him???

So we are included in the word 'elohiym, el-o-heem': - (meaning plur of gods in the ordinary sense) because we listen to Him and He decides us to includes us in the family of God!! And that is what is written in the Scriptures and explained by our Father in heaven!

Ps 82:6 I said, “You are gods, And all of you are sons of the Most High.

So He calls us sons of the Most High and He includes us as in the family of God, so we are gods - yet never-the-less we will die like men because we do not listen to Him like we should!! We still keep looking to other men and even our own silly wisdom instead of seek His voice and Him as our Teacher!! Yet the Word of God has saved us who believe in Him: which means we do remember to seek Him and His voice at times because we have a measure of belief in Him. Some with a greater of lesser measure of faith, but it doesn't take a large amount of faith to seek Him and listen!! Yet since faith comes from hearing, what about the man who refuses to listen?

Do they not start leaning on their own understanding and even the understanding of other men??

We need to turn back to Him, the God through whom all things were created, and start listening to Him - right??

That is what caused Him to call us gods, and that is where the instructions and power of God come from, right? So it is that I preach the Word of God and that to mean we need to listen to the Lord our God, Jesus Christ!!

 

[Johann]

I sometimes find writings such as the above somewhat interesting, but did Jesus in the Scriptures ever sound like He spoke in such a way as is written above? Never!

When I listen to the Lord and I find that He speaks more like what we actually find written in the Scripture. He sometimes uses parables. But He will give you some explanation afterwards if you ask. He, as the Lord, also gives me instructions. The first words I heard from Him was, "Read Your Bible". And there are words of encouragement and love that He speaks to me. The most common words I hear from Him are, "Karl, I love you." I hear that and sometimes have heard those words numerous times in the same day. And another endearing word that He speaks to me is, "son"!!!

Yeah, He often calls me "son" as in "Son, I appreciate what you do for me.", or "Son, why don't you come for a walk with me." Yet none of what He tells me comes across like the writing above. But I can ask Him about writing like the above, can't I? Yeah, I can. Is it not the writings of men, and them looking to other men and not God?

It was pointed out to me that it was written above:




So the author of the post is, by his own statements, looking to 'rabbinical arguments' and ' Johannine word play',. instead of looking to the Lord as his Teacher!!! So who are we to look to: "wise men" or the Lord our God?

I tell you truly, that if a man is wise it is because He looks to God and what the Word of God, Jesus Christ, has to say to Him.

I try to do that, seek the Lord and listen to Him! Of course the Holy Spirit is not the only spirit around, but it is also written that if we seek we find. I believe in Jesus Christ because when I seek Him I find Him with that small voice of His. I find the One who tells me He loves me, and who calls me His son, and the One who teaches me!! And He does not ever sound like the above post.

Oh, I my studies with Him, He did talk to me about "elohim", many God in the plural sense. Was not "elohim" used in Genisis and before things, like men, were even created?

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God (elohiym, el-o-heem': plur of gods in the ordinary sense) created the heavens and the earth...

So before there were any men, there was God and that in plural in the ordinary sense!!! How then can it now be used to mean more that God who was in the beginning??? Is it because of this:

Jn 17: 19 - 22 “For their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they themselves also may be sanctified in truth. “I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word; hat they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me. “The glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, just as We are one;

Is it because He calls us sons and daughters of the Most High if we decide to listen to Him???

So we are included in the word 'elohiym, el-o-heem': - (meaning plur of gods in the ordinary sense) because we listen to Him and He decides us to includes us in the family of God!! And that is what is written in the Scriptures and explained by our Father in heaven!

Ps 82:6 I said, “You are gods, And all of you are sons of the Most High.

So He calls us sons of the Most High and He includes us as in the family of God, so we are gods - yet never-the-less we will die like men because we do not listen to Him like we should!! We still keep looking to other men and even our own silly wisdom instead of seek His voice and Him as our Teacher!! Yet the Word of God has saved us who believe in Him: which means we do remember to seek Him and His voice at times because we have a measure of belief in Him. Some with a greater of lesser measure of faith, but it doesn't take a large amount of faith to seek Him and listen!! Yet since faith comes from hearing, what about the man who refuses to listen?

Do they not start leaning on their own understanding and even the understanding of other men??

We need to turn back to Him, the God through whom all things were created, and start listening to Him - right??

That is what caused Him to call us gods, and that is where the instructions and power of God come from, right? So it is that I preach the Word of God and that to mean we need to listen to the Lord our God, Jesus Christ!!

Cheers-something is wrong here.
J.

 

[amigo de christo]

Cheers-something is wrong here.
J.

Well i have seen some of the things that ol karl has written in times past . SO ME WONT be aruging with you about that .
Let us get DUG In that bible more and more my friend .
I have seen SOME of the things that man has taught and frankly it has scared me half to death for him .
Hit the trenches .

 

[Karl Peters]

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?'
Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'
Mat 7:21-23

Relying on the miraculous for authority without obeying Jesus is the road of evildoers.
Jesus does not say such authority did not occur just He is not part of it.

The above is a very poor understanding of what happens in the spiritual realm around us!!!

If we spent much time actually seeking the voice of the Lord instead of just leaning on our understanding, we would understand it!

If a non-believer, who does not actually know the Lord our God Jesus Christ, calls on the name of Jesus Christ in order to have God do a miracle and help someone, does God know it? Of course He does!! He knows all things and is in all places!! And the Father wishes to glorify the Son! Even the work of God is to get us to seek and come to know the Son!!

So will God perform the miracle???

I don't know, because it might depend on more information than I know, but it would be reasonable that He might, in order that His Son be glorified and perhaps they might think to actually start seeking Jesus Christ!!

Thus we find a lot of examples of where a person, even a persons using the name and name only the name of Jesus Christ, to perform - or really it is better said, to get God to perform a miracle!! Therefore we find many "Christians" using the name and the name of Jesus Christ only (as opposed to actually hearing from Him) performing seeming to perform miracles in His name, but they never knew Him!!

Now compare that to a testimony of someone who does actually know Him. Their purpose is to get others to know Him, because they know that He is worth knowing. So because they know Him they listen to Him, do what He says, and He tells them to pray for a person and even how to pray!! I can tell you that He will tell you if you need to lead them through forgiveness first, and any other thing that He might want to be done. Jesus made mud to put on someone's eyes, but not every time!

There turn our to be quit a difference between actually knowing the Lord and listening to Him and just trying to do things by your own understanding. The difference can be seen by if a person is trying to get you to seek Him and His voice or not!! Because knowing Him means salvation, not just going around saying "in the name of Jesus Christ".

Saying "in the name of Jesus Christ" is supposed to mean you heard Him and He asked you to do something, but too many make it like a magic phrase. That is called, "White Magic", and they are are of the devil, even if they don't know it!!

So we find a person writing:

You are right about me not abdicating critical thinking when faced with
"The Lord asked me"

You should do some "critical thinking", and our thinking that is "critical" is our thinking which turns us back to Him and His voice!!

You write:

This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,
but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.
1 John 4:1-3

Would you like to have an honest conversation about that?? Because I often, when hearing a spiritual voice, actually use that test!! There is a bit more to know about discernment of spirits that than, but it all has to do with listening with our spiritual ears and seeking the voice of our Lord Jesus Christ!!

For example - with practice listening and using our spiritual sense we come to know good from evil!

Heb 5;14 But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil.

If you are practicing using your spiritual senses how is it you never testify that God asked you to do something??

How is it you denied on this thread that God said " ‘I SAID, YOU ARE GODS’

How is it you though communion with God was something you were destined to as opposed to something currently happening in your life?

I don't see how anyone who was practicing listening to God could have made those mistakes.

What happens when you test a spirit as in 1 Jn 4:1-3 - you forgot again to give any personal testimony about the Lord and your walk with Him - but you only doubt if someone writes "The Lord asked me"!!

It is written that a testimony was in Jacob, but we don't see one from you who even doubt when anyone says anything about hearing the Lord, as if that is something to always be doubted! So do you believed God is there to be heard from or doubt that God is there to be heard from???

Testing the spirits is fine, but doubting that God would talk to you is not!!

 

[Karl Peters]

Cheers-something is wrong here.
J.

Yes - it seems many are not so sure about being able to seek and hear from the Lord our God. I did find what you wrote interesting, but Jesus said He did not receive glory from men. Iron may sharpen iron, but we need to hear from the Lord, and it turns out that doing that gets Him to call us His sons - thus gods - because a son of God must be a god. And what does that mean to us??

Does it not mean that we become one with God, as in the word ‘elohiym, el-o-heem': - (meaning plur of gods in the ordinary sense)

There was something wrong when Jesus came to earth, trying to get the Jews to seek the voice of the Lord! And is it not the same problem that we see today? Is it not written that there is nothing new under the sun?

So back then we find an issue recorded in the Scriptures, where Jesus Christ, the Son of God who was One with God, came preaching the Kingdom of God, and the Jews (God's people of whom Christians are supposed to be grafted into) were upset with Him!! And for what reason, was it not because of the oneness of God??

And even this forum makes only one thing illegal to talk about, and the reason is that many get upset with this idea of the oneness of God - the "Elohiym" plural of gods in the ordinary sense - problem. But it was discussed over and over and over in the Bible so do we have a Christian forum of people like the Jews then, unwilling to accept what God says? If so is it because they are also unwilling to listen to the Lord in their own life???

That would be a problem and a big problem at that!!

So I don't find it something to be said, "Cheers" to, but indeed I do agree that there is something wrong here!! It seems that the problems Jesus found when He came to earth then are still around!! And it does seem that we are having trouble realizing the connection between actually hearing the Lord and the reason God has to come back some day!

The Jews at the time Jesus the Christ walked on earth, did not in general seek the voice of the Lord and listen to Him then. And today we see this same general problem with Christians who are also not listening like we should! We don't even seem to know where we stand with God, even as His sons and daughters!!! And isn't that the reason the Jews were upset with Jesus and the thought of Him being the Son of God.

Look at the Bible and who do we resemble most? Jesus or the Pharisees? Who are we like??

 

[Johann]

Yes - it seems many are not so sure about being able to seek and hear from the Lord our God. I did find what you wrote interesting, but Jesus said He did not receive glory from men. Iron may sharpen iron, but we need to hear from the Lord, and it turns out that doing that gets Him to call us His sons - thus gods - because a son of God must be a god. And what does that mean to us??

Yes-I "hear" from God

Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Rom 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

-Through His Scriptures

ἀκοῆς
Transliteration: akoēs
Morphology: N-GFS
Noun - Genitive Feminine Singular
Strong's no.: G189 (ἀκοή)
Meaning: Hearing, faculty of hearing, ear; report, rumor.

1 ) "So then faith cometh by hearing", (ara he pistis eks akoes) "Then the faith comes out of hearing;" He who refuses to hear the Word, through which knowledge of condemnation and conviction of sin comes, Pro_1:22-24 will never have or ' take hold of the "gift of faith," thru which media every sinner is offered salvation by placing his divinely offered gift of faith in Jesus Christ, Eph_2:8-9; Joh_3:16.

2) "And hearing," (he de akoe) "And the hearing," The hearing comes, the comprehensive, understanding comes, by the Word of God, as the holy spirit is poured out upon the sinner to make him understand the gravity or seriousness of his sins, Pro_1:22-23; Isa_32:14-15; Joh_16:7-11.

3) "By the word of God," (dia hrematos christou) "Through the clearly declared Word of Christ," God's Holy Spirit accompanies the teaching and preaching of the Word to convict and call sinners to repentance, to salvation, and to separated, consecrated living, to godliness. 0, that men might but obey the call of the Word and the spirit to service, as well as the call of men to accept, believe the true-form-gospel (three-tier-gospel) that Jesus Christ -
a) "died for our sins
b) was buried for our sins
C) and rose again, the third day for our sins, according to the scriptures." Any other form or pattern of belief, one that leaves out or doubts the resurrection, etc., or adds something to this and calls it "obeying the gospel," is a perverter of, not a proclaimer of the gospel of good tidings, according to the scriptures, 1Co_15:1-4; Gal_1:6-9; Act_1:14-16; Rom_10:16 above cited, certifies "-believing the report," glad tidings, good news report of Isa_53:1-12, is obeying the gospel.

Yes?
J.

 

[WalkInLight]

The above is a very poor understanding of what happens in the spiritual realm around us!!!

If we spent much time actually seeking the voice of the Lord instead of just leaning on our understanding, we would understand it!

If a non-believer, who does not actually know the Lord our God Jesus Christ, calls on the name of Jesus Christ in order to have God do a miracle and help someone, does God know it? Of course He does!! He knows all things and is in all places!! And the Father wishes to glorify the Son! Even the work of God is to get us to seek and come to know the Son!!

So will God perform the miracle???

I don't know, because it might depend on more information than I know, but it would be reasonable that He might, in order that His Son be glorified and perhaps they might think to actually start seeking Jesus Christ!!

Thus we find a lot of examples of where a person, even a persons using the name and name only the name of Jesus Christ, to perform - or really it is better said, to get God to perform a miracle!! Therefore we find many "Christians" using the name and the name of Jesus Christ only (as opposed to actually hearing from Him) performing seeming to perform miracles in His name, but they never knew Him!!

Now compare that to a testimony of someone who does actually know Him. Their purpose is to get others to know Him, because they know that He is worth knowing. So because they know Him they listen to Him, do what He says, and He tells them to pray for a person and even how to pray!! I can tell you that He will tell you if you need to lead them through forgiveness first, and any other thing that He might want to be done. Jesus made mud to put on someone's eyes, but not every time!

There turn our to be quit a difference between actually knowing the Lord and listening to Him and just trying to do things by your own understanding. The difference can be seen by if a person is trying to get you to seek Him and His voice or not!! Because knowing Him means salvation, not just going around saying "in the name of Jesus Christ".

Saying "in the name of Jesus Christ" is supposed to mean you heard Him and He asked you to do something, but too many make it like a magic phrase. That is called, "White Magic", and they are are of the devil, even if they don't know it!!

So we find a person writing:


You should do some "critical thinking", and our thinking that is "critical" is our thinking which turns us back to Him and His voice!!

You write:



Would you like to have an honest conversation about that?? Because I often, when hearing a spiritual voice, actually use that test!! There is a bit more to know about discernment of spirits that than, but it all has to do with listening with our spiritual ears and seeking the voice of our Lord Jesus Christ!!

For example - with practice listening and using our spiritual sense we come to know good from evil!

Heb 5;14 But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil.

If you are practicing using your spiritual senses how is it you never testify that God asked you to do something??

How is it you denied on this thread that God said " ‘I SAID, YOU ARE GODS’

How is it you though communion with God was something you were destined to as opposed to something currently happening in your life?

I don't see how anyone who was practicing listening to God could have made those mistakes.

What happens when you test a spirit as in 1 Jn 4:1-3 - you forgot again to give any personal testimony about the Lord and your walk with Him - but you only doubt if someone writes "The Lord asked me"!!

It is written that a testimony was in Jacob, but we don't see one from you who even doubt when anyone says anything about hearing the Lord, as if that is something to always be doubted! So do you believed God is there to be heard from or doubt that God is there to be heard from???

Testing the spirits is fine, but doubting that God would talk to you is not!!

"The above is a very poor understanding of what happens in the spiritual realm around us!!!"

Not sure what you mean. Are you a follower of angels who give gold dust, or jewels, or angel feathers, or using christian tarot cards, or bring messages from dead believers to members in a congregation through a "prophet", or unstoppable laughing, or behaving like an animal in a trance, or go to the third heaven to speak to the angel Gabriel, or Moses or Jesus. Some hold there are spiritual dominions that need to be defeated in various places on earth, or demons cast out of believers, or jezebel spirits in critics, or prophets to prophecy things that simply do not come true, and speak as if God is speaking through them but they are literally lying and self deluded.

One leader claimed the spirit was moving on them powerfully and drop kick someone to cure them, while having an affair with a member of their worship team. This kind of spiritual realm is certainly nothing to do with Jesus. It has a lot to do with unredeemed sinners thinking they are having spiritual experiences with Jesus and the Holy Spirit while actually mentioning very little about the gospel, repentance, truth or emotional reality.

Personally I want nothing to do with this. God bless you

 

[Karl Peters]

Yes-I "hear" from God

Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Rom 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

-Through His Scriptures

Hearing is not reading!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gal 3:22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

Jn 5; 39,40 You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.

Jn 5: 45,47 “For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me. “But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”

Jn 8: 43 “Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word.

Jn 6:63 “It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.

The Scriptures don't save anyone. It's not that we shouldn't read them and study them!! After all they are able to give you the wisdom lead you to salvation which is through Jesus Christ - but just because they are able to give you the wisdom to actually seek Jesus Christ and His voice which comes via the Holy Spirit, it doesn't mean they did. You have to believe in Jesus Christ, that He is there for you! That you can hear from Him like the writers of the Scriptures - eg Moses, John, Paul. They heard from the Lord and wrote about Him, but you read what they write and think that is hearing from Him??? Can you not even see that you don't really believe that the Word of God is near you, in your heart and mouth, not even the Scriptures!! The are writings that of what Moses, John, and Paul, heard, not what you are hearing!! What you hear will probably match up with what they are hearing, but the Lord will guide your steps and you will hear voice even telling you when to turn to the left and right!! Did you read that???

Is 30:21 Your ears will hear a word behind you, “This is the way, walk in it,” whenever you turn to the right or to the left.

Isaiah did not write everything that he heard from the Lord!! But he did explain that if we know our Teacher He will even tells us when to turn to the left or the right!!

But you write that the orderly lines of the Scriptures that you read here and there are the word of God you hear. You should have paid closer attention to Isaiah! He wrote about that problem!

He who said to them, “Here is rest, give rest to the weary,”
And, “Here is repose,” but they would not listen.
So the word of the LORD to them will be,
“Order on order, order on order,
Line on line, line on line,
A little here, a little there,”
That they may go and stumble backward, be broken, snared and taken captive.


Reading the orderly line upon lines in the Bible a little here and there is by no means hearing the Lord talk to you personally!!!!!!

 

[Johann]

Hearing is not reading!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gal 3:22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

Jn 5; 39,40 You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.

Jn 5: 45,47 “For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me. “But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”

Jn 8: 43 “Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word.

Jn 6:63 “It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.

The Scriptures don't save anyone. It's not that we shouldn't read them and study them!! After all they are able to give you the wisdom lead you to salvation which is through Jesus Christ - but just because they are able to give you the wisdom to actually seek Jesus Christ and His voice which comes via the Holy Spirit, it doesn't mean they did. You have to believe in Jesus Christ, that He is there for you! That you can hear from Him like the writers of the Scriptures - eg Moses, John, Paul. They heard from the Lord and wrote about Him, but you read what they write and think that is hearing from Him??? Can you not even see that you don't really believe that the Word of God is near you, in your heart and mouth, not even the Scriptures!! The are writings that of what Moses, John, and Paul, heard, not what you are hearing!! What you hear will probably match up with what they are hearing, but the Lord will guide your steps and you will hear voice even telling you when to turn to the left and right!! Did you read that???

Is 30:21 Your ears will hear a word behind you, “This is the way, walk in it,” whenever you turn to the right or to the left.

Isaiah did not write everything that he heard from the Lord!! But he did explain that if we know our Teacher He will even tells us when to turn to the left or the right!!

But you write that the orderly lines of the Scriptures that you read here and there are the word of God you hear. You should have paid closer attention to Isaiah! He wrote about that problem!

He who said to them, “Here is rest, give rest to the weary,”
And, “Here is repose,” but they would not listen.
So the word of the LORD to them will be,
“Order on order, order on order,
Line on line, line on line,
A little here, a little there,”
That they may go and stumble backward, be broken, snared and taken captive.


Reading the orderly line upon lines in the Bible a little here and there is by no means hearing the Lord talk to you personally!!!!!!

You are overstepping the boundaries as it stands written in Scriptures.
No need to reply.

 

[Johann]

Hearing is not reading!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wrong-your gospel is false.
I have a feeling you won't be here for long.

 

[Karl Peters]

You are overstepping the boundaries as it stands written in Scriptures.
No need to reply.

So you think the hearing the Lord voice is "overstepping" what is written in the Scriptures????

What "Scriptures" have you been reading???? Let me help you with the Bible verses:

Gen 15:14 After these things the word of the LORD came to Abram in a vision, saying, “Do not fear, Abram,
I am a shield to you; Your reward shall be very great.”

There were no Scriptures or verse when Abram heard from the Lord and believed!! So Abram did not READ the word of the Lord who came and talked with him!! He heard a voice which came with a vision - not with a book or writings- and Abram believed that who he was hearing was the Lord and that belief was counted to him are righteousness!!!!!

Gen 15:16 And He took him outside and said, “Now look toward the heavens, and count the stars, if you are able to count them.” And He said to him, “So shall your descendants be.” Then he believed in the LORD; and He reckoned it to him as righteousness.

Moses heard from the Lord before any Scriptures had been written, and Aaron also. And the One who Moses heard from was the great I AM!! The Christ has always been the Word of God and the Great I AM!!

Ex 4:27 Now the LORD said to Aaron, “Go to meet Moses in the wilderness.” So he went and met him at the mountain of God and kissed him.

Ex 4:29 Then Moses and Aaron went and assembled all the elders of the sons of Israel; and Aaron spoke all the words which the LORD had spoken to Moses. He then performed the signs in the sight of the people.

Moses even too the people to the mountain to hear from the Lord themselves, but look what those people said!!

Ex 20:19 Then they said to Moses, “Speak to us yourself and we will listen; but let not God speak to us, or we will die.”

Are you not doing the same thing with your thinking that your reading the words of Moses is ok, but thinking that actually hearing from the Lord is "overstepping the Scriptures"??? Are you not like them?

So Moses wrote, so they would have a record of what the Lord was saying to them. Things like:

Deut 29:4 “Yet to this day the LORD has not given you a heart to know, nor eyes to see, nor ears to hear

Deut 30:14 “But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may observe it..

Deut 5:1 Then Moses summoned all Israel and said to them: “Hear, O Israel, the statutes and the ordinances which I am speaking today in your hearing

Deut 6:4 “Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one!

So Moses spoke so they could hear and God spoke so they could hear, and though we have a recorded proving that is was about hearing, you make it about their the Lord instead of you hearing the Lord who is the Great I AM and the Word of God!! It is not the thinking of Moses or God which needs to change, nor the writings Moses made for the Lord that need to change! The problem was always that attitude which caused God's people to say, "let not God speak to us"!!!

Psalms 81:13 “Oh that My people would listen to Me, That Israel would walk in My ways!

God spoke to the psalmist and had them write about how much He really wanted His people to listen to Him, but would they?

Psalms 81:11 “But My people did not listen to My voice, And Israel did not obey Me.

You may think me hard on you for bring all this up, but I hear Him and so know how badly He wants to be able to talk to you so that you would listen to Him!! He loves His people, but they don't love Him!

Ps 81:15 “Those who hate the LORD would pretend obedience to Him, And their time of punishment would be forever.

Don't let that happen to you!! He really really really does want you to listen to Him. He will indeed forgive you all the past and has declared it already, so you just need to believe in Him - the Great I Am whose name is called the Word of God! The One who spoke to Abram, Aaron, Moses, and the Psalmist!

Is 1:2 Listen, O heavens, and hear, O earth; For the LORD speaks,
“Sons I have reared and brought up, But they have revolted against Me.

And He kept sending those who listened to Him to tell His people to hear Him, because He the Lord our God does speak!! We don't read Him, we hear from Him!! That is what the authors of the Bible were explaining!! And you think saying that is "overstepping the Scriptures"?

Is 1: 10 Hear the word of the LORD, You rulers of Sodom;
Give ear to the instruction of our God, You people of Gomorrah.

Wow, Isaiah was talking about the Lord people by comparing them to the rulers of Sodom and Gomorrah - because like Sodom and Gomorrah they had rebelled against God and were unwilling to listen to Him. But all was not lost!

Is 1:18 “Come now, and let us reason together,” Says the LORD,
“Though your sins are as scarlet, They will be as white as snow;
Though they are red like crimson, They will be like wool.

All that was ever need was that His people would turn back to Him and reason, back and forth with Him!! Of course that would mean they had to listen to His reasoning!! But again, they were not willing to listen to Him!!!

Is 30:9 For this is a rebellious people, false sons,
Sons who refuse to listen To the instruction of the LORD;

How come it is not written that refuse to read the instructions of the Lord? It is because reading what others wrote is not hearing what He has to say to you!! We only get a personal relationship with Him and are called sons of the Almighty when we listen to Him and personally get to know Him!!!

So are you someone of the rebellious people, the false sons, those sons who refuse to listen - or are you someone who actuallly goes to the Lord to hear what He has to say about what you are thinking?? You tell me, but when you do why not tell me a testimony about things you hear Him tell you?

Have you ever heard anything like "Karl, I want you to preach the Word of God, but not like it is so often preached today. I want you to preach I AM THE WORD OF GOD!" and then felt a power in the words "I AM' which sent you falling? I was just wondering, becuase I have experienced that and so much more!!

And His name is called the Word of God in the Scriptures!!!

Rev 19:13 He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.

So He was the One (the word of the Lord) who spoke to Abram back in Gen 15: 1!! Have you not gotten that REVELATION yet?

If not there is still good news for you:

Revelation 3:19,20 ‘Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline; therefore be zealous and repent. ‘Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.

So He loves you, and reproves and disciplines you, therefore be zealous and repent, because you too are an "ANYONE" who can hear His voice and open up to Him!! He is not a book or writings, He is the Christ our Lord and God's salvation (Jesus) - and to receive Him you just have to start seeking Him and His voice!! That is the good news by friend!! Do that and you will understand everything I have been trying to tell people!!

You will be counted as sons of the Most High, and not false sons. So you will be as a god, because He will come into you with His Holy Spirit and talk to your spirit - so God will be in you!! That is not a pride thing, In fact that only happens when you humble yourself and start thinking that God is smarter than you so you repent of your ways and turn and listen to Him and His ways for you!!

So stop saying in your heart "Let not God speak to us" and start saying in your heart "Please Lord speak to us! Open our ears and eyes that we might know you!" What is the prayer of your heart! That you might know all, or that you might personally know Him who does know all?

Consider carefully, because reading is not hearing, and your thoughts are not His thoughts!!

 

[Patrick1966]

Similarly to Moses being like God to Phararoh because he spoke on behalf of God we are like Gods as we represent God as well.

We are ambassadors for the Kingdom, priests in a royal priesthood. We bare the word of God, and the name of Jesus to continue his work. Our conduct is also attributed to the character of God, for good or ill.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

Wrong-your gospel is false.
I have a feeling you won't be here for long.

These kind remain in forums bc ppl fail to report their heresies!
Therefore they linger, corrupting the very gospel of Jesus and the word of God .

 

[L.A.M.B.]

People, that are so self consumed by their self righteous importance to God, his kingdom and believer's truth, in fact really become in themselves a part of the anti- Christ, in his movement against God !

We have several of those here.

 

[Patrick1966]

People, that are so self consumed by their self righteous importance to God, his kingdom and believer's truth, in fact really become in themselves a part of the anti- Christ, in his movement against God !

We have several of those here.

As far as I can tell, most of the discussion that takes place here is discussing or debating theology. Most people have great difficulty being able to tolerate a differing view while maintaining a civil demeanor. Once someone demonstrates to me that they are close-minded and also unable to offer solid insights, I place them on "ignore". At the moment I have around 43 people on that list. I'm not here to engage the masses but I am willing to share with those who are open to hearing and I especially enjoy the opportunity to increase my own understanding by reading the posts of members who have the gift of discernment.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

God said it "that you are gods" - so then you think believing God is a "dangerous idea"!!!

You seriously need to seek Him and His voice by faith!!





So you think Jesus was perhaps a Mormon???

It was Jesus who talking to those religious zealots during His time in the flesh who said:

Jn 10:31 - 38 The Jews picked up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, “I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?” The Jews answered Him, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God.” Jesus answered them, “Has it not been written in your Law, ‘I SAID, YOU ARE GODS’? “If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’? “If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; but if I do them, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, so that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I in the Father.”

So in the little above we the Jews picking up stones to stone Jesus Christ because the felt Jesus Christ was blasphemy God - and that is like you, is it not? And it was then that Jesus pointed out what was "written" about what God said "‘I SAID, YOU ARE GODS’ - But look close - that was "to whom the word of God came" - which is to say "whom the Father sanctified"

Are you not acting exactly like those Jews then were acting???

Therefore it was also written to us what happen to Jesus, understanding that it would also happen when we hear from Him!!

Jesus tried to explain about the importance of hearing the Lord our God, and even about how the works that happen from hearing Him is a reason to believe.

Jn 10: 37,38 “If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; but if I do them, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, so that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I in the Father.”

As for me, I heard and hear Him speaking to me.

Jn 10:27 “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;

So I believe and follow Him and what He asks me to do. I don't do that perfectly, but I do what He tells me. And I have seen Him do hundreds of miracles, so I continue to believe in Him, and that the Father is in Him and He in the Father. I have also come to understand that His prayer for me is that I would be one with Him like He is one with the Father, making me a small god - according to what He has told me, though I don't feel like a god, even though I have prayed and seen and felt swelling go down quickly as a prayed, and many other miracles!! I have also seen religious people who proclaim they are loving people but show no signs of know the Lord who is the God who heals you!!

Why do they say things to indicate that healing someone is not a loving thing to do? Is it not a testimony that they don't know Him who is the healer and who is love?

BTW the following is wrong:



It is not our "destiny" to be able to commune with Him!!!!!

It is to be our current status - not our "destiny"!!!!!!!

Is this not where you are wrong???

But the righteousness [fn]based on faith speaks as follows: “DO NOT SAY IN YOUR HEART, ‘WHO WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN?’ (that is, to bring Christ down), ...

But what does it say? “THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,

that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

Jesus Christ is alive - now!!! We can talk to Him now!! Yeah, after we die like men, we are going to be with Him in heaven, but it is not our "destiny to commune with Him!!! That is to happen now!!!

Have I not been telling you over and over and over that you need to seek Him and listen to Him!! STOP saying in your heart that He is either dead or in a far off place called heaven. The Word of God we preach is in you so you can commune with Him now!! That is for now!! He is only your Lord now if you get your instructions from Him now!!

Gotta leave, nice chatting. Bye

 

[L.A.M.B.]

As far as I can tell, most of the discussion that takes place here is discussing or debating theology. Most people have great difficulty being able to tolerate a differing view while maintaining a civil demeanor. Once someone demonstrates to me that they are close-minded and also unable to offer solid insights, I place them on "ignore". At the moment I have around 43 people on that list. I'm not here to engage the masses but I am willing to share with those who are open to hearing and I especially enjoy the opportunity to increase my own understanding by reading the posts of members who have the gift of discernment.

This is well said Patrick, even though I do not agree with your theology on U. R.

 

[Patrick1966]

This is well said Patrick, even though I do not agree with your theology on U. R.

And that's OK.

 

[Johann]

These kind remain in forums bc ppl fail to report their heresies!
Therefore they linger, corrupting the very gospel of Jesus and the word of God .