Is the Sabbath a 'test of loyalty'?

[BarneyFife]

Do you think Hebrews 4 is somehow re-declaring keeping the 7th day holy?

No. I can't really see why it needs to be re-declared. I don't think God should be required to chew His cabbage twice.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

No. I can't really see why it needs to be re-declared. I don't think God should be required to chew His cabbage twice.

Then tell me why you keep referring to Hebrews 4.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I'll listen to it later. I see it is from It is Written. Do you remember a singer they had on there decades ago? Charles Haugabrooks. I love his voice. You can still find his CD's on ebay. I still get an email from ebay every time someone has one to sell.

 

[Bob Estey]

I go to bed around 9:00 pm every night. The law was a schoolmaster. They were taught spiritual things through physical acts, like resting, and circumcision. Now in the New Covenant the spiritual side to the law has been revealed to us, so we are no longer to keep them by the letter of the law, but for those who believe it is still a law, it would be a sin for them not to keep it. And there are some people who now believe Sunday is the Sabbath, and for them to not keep Sunday would be a sin. Romans 14 "whatever is not from faith is sin."

As for law? You were talking about resting. So if you were not referring to the Sabbath law, what were you referring to?

We need a day's rest each week, so God told us to rest for a day each week.

 

[Bob Estey]

No. I can't really see why it needs to be re-declared. I don't think God should be required to chew His cabbage twice.

You make an interesting point here. I was recently having a discussion here with someone who said I was cherry-picking Leviticus 18:22, where God calls homosexuality an abomination. God doesn't have to say something over and over again to make it true - once is enough (he doesn't have to chew his cabbage twice, or three or four times).

 

[BarneyFife]

Do you remember a singer they had on there decades ago? Charles Haugabrooks

Oh, yeah.

Do you remember T. Marshall Kelly?

It takes everything to serve the Lord...

Why, here he is now:

Then tell me why you keep referring to Hebrews 4.

Maybe I don' wanna.

It was just re: someone else's reference. I know you like to scrap over Hebrews 4. I been knowin' you Sis.

 

[BarneyFife]

I go to bed around 9:00 pm every night.

Me, too!

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

I don't think it is a test of loyalty, but I do believe people should obey the sabbath. This means no shopping or making people work if at all possible. But yeah the sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath.

The sabbath should be filled with family and feast. Testifying of God and such. No labors.

No exposition of the Sabbath ever attempted regards it as "the Sabbath OF, THE LORD GOD", or, of "ALL, HIS, WORKS, GOD, WORKED".

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Science is already waking up to the biorhythmic construct of circaseptan. The beavers come out of their hutch on Sunday mornings, ready to start a new week of hard work.

Very good! I LOVE it. How at the same time you can say such untruths as <you certainly can't get the plan of redemption from Genesis 2. No amount of wordsmithing can change the rules of hermeneutics. When a passage of Scripture can easily be interpreted literally, that should be it's primary interpretation>, is beyond my comprehension --- unless I should rather ask, How at the same time can you say such FALSITIES as <you certainly can't get the plan of redemption from Genesis 2...> instead of the truth: that: The Plan of Redemption not only is in EVERY WORD from God, it is especially in God's Word regarding His Holy Sabbath Day Set Apart for JUST THAT PURPOSE AS IN GENESIS chapter 1 to 3 --THREE, yes, Genesis 2:4 to 3:1-24 BEING THE PRECISE SAME HISTORY GIVING MORE DETAILS than given in chapter 1:1-2:3. And you KNOW it Dr. Ron, YOU, DO, know it, but will not admit it for the Seventh day Adventist life of yours.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Genesis chapter 1 Begins with CHRIST
AND
concerning the 7 Days of the week = Colossians 1:15-18

He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers.
All things were created through Him and for Him.
And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.
And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead,
that in all things He may have the preeminence.

Truth! Great and wonderful Truth! I thank you and salute you, David in NJ.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

What is the first commandment that Opens the Door to Heaven for us?

Another wonderful post full of truth for which again, David in NJ, I thank you and salute you and Hobie #72

So how would you read this verse...
Revelation 22:14
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city..

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

What does Christ creating the heavens and the earth in 7 days have to do with the plan of redemption? Your assertion was that the first part of Genesis is the basis of the rest spoken of in Matthew 11 and Hebrews 4. The basis of something doesn't need to be identified by something else.

However true it may be, name-dropping Jesus into the creation narrative does nothing to support your claims.

Even the 2 givings of the law to Israel itself distinguish creation from redemption right in the 4th commandment. They do, without a doubt, come from the same Hand of love and mercy. But creation is not the new (re-)creation. Eden is not Calvary. Genesis 1 is not Colossians 1. And the 7-th day Sabbath is not the Atonement.

Tyndale was so certain of that that he felt compelled to create an entirely new English word for it.

Loading progressive revelation onto Genesis 1 and 2 is just putting the cart before the horse.

There are many exceptions to the rule, but the reason the vast majority of Christians won't consider keeping the original, literally expressed 4th commandment is either 1) tradition, or 2) dread of controversy/inconvenience.

When Sunday was widely believed by Protestants to be the object of the 4th commandment, no one objected to at least a modicum of it's observance.

But now that the proliferation of Bible study material in the media and on the Internet has nearly all non-Catholic scholars finding that position embarrassing to claim as sola scriptura, either the 4th or all ten commandments are under fire and sacrificed to spiritualism or declared ecclesiologically obsolete. Either views are entirely post-modern. Your believing grandparents would never have bought it.

And, as I said before, I can't spend much time on a one-dimensional discussion of this subject. If we can't comprehensively address each other's concerns, then we might as well just copy-and-paste old, existing thread contents.

The spiritualization of the 4th commandment is an objection that has been thoroughly exhausted here. Just search for Hebrews 4 if you'd like to read it.

EXPOSING SDA CORRUPTION OF GOSPEL TRUTH like never before EXPOSING SDA REJECTION OF CHRIST-TRUTH like never before. YOU HAVE HAD IT, Seventh day Adventism, you're FINISHED.

SDA UNFORGIVEABLE BLASPHEMY SEEN EXERCISED AND FOOLHEARTEDLY MAINTAINED RIGHT HERE BY YOU, Dr. Ron alias BaneyFife : <The prophecies of Daniel and Revelation, combined with the modern gift of prophecy, give us divine insight.>SSL6/13 .

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Professor Japp warned you "Don't go there", Dr. Ron du Preez, but you went there; now face the consequences!

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

It takes everything to serve the Lord

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

We need a day's rest each week, so God told us to rest for a day each week.

What day you need and what God made needed by man "for Man" - "the Son of Man" - to save His Own and Bring Him Up from the dead again, was "on the day which is after the Preparation...in fullness of being Sabbath...towards before the First Day of the week" Matthew 27--28, are different things that have no bearing the one on the other. Your day needed, is your own works of unrighteousness; and HIS DAY being "MY HOLY DAY", is "DAY APPOINTED", AS "MAN APPOINTED" FOR "JUDGEMENT". Acts 17.

 

[BarneyFife]

Very good! I LOVE it. How at the same time you can say such untruths as <you certainly can't get the plan of redemption from Genesis 2. No amount of wordsmithing can change the rules of hermeneutics. When a passage of Scripture can easily be interpreted literally, that should be it's primary interpretation>, is beyond my comprehension --- unless I should rather ask, How at the same time can you say such FALSITIES as <you certainly can't get the plan of redemption from Genesis 2...> instead of the truth: that: The Plan of Redemption not only is in EVERY WORD from God, it is especially in God's Word regarding His Holy Sabbath Day Set Apart for JUST THAT PURPOSE AS IN GENESIS chapter 1 to 3 --THREE, yes, Genesis 2:4 to 3:1-24 BEING THE PRECISE SAME HISTORY GIVING MORE DETAILS than given in chapter 1:1-2:3. And you KNOW it Dr. Ron, YOU, DO, know it, but will not admit it for the Seventh day Adventist life of yours.

GE, if you want to throw your boundless, Adventist-loathing weight on the side of the Sabbath question that reduces it to a cruel joke instead of a divine precept and erroneously urges that Jesus was our Sabbath all along (since He changes not and therefore can't be something today that He wasn't in antiquity):

You'll get no opposition inconsistent with due respect for religious liberty from me.

There's been so much cross-posting and thread-jumping/creating that this discussion is nearly unfollowable, but my contention from the beginning has been that the LORD Jesus, as the distinct 2nd person of the Godhead, is nowhere mentioned within the text itself of Genesis 1 & 2.

And He simply isn't.

And no evidence to the contrary has yet been offered.

The plan of redemption is, indeed, in every word of God, but not in each word. And I shouldn't have to remind you, of all people, of that, GE.

Christ's particular identity was seen fit by God to be cloaked in the history of the earth taking place before the entrance of sin into the world.

He is later identified—not verified—in Scripture, as has been claimed (a distinction you should also be able to easily recognize).

This distinction is an exegetical (not personal) hill upon which I am willing to (figuratively, a specification sadly necessary to avoid assumptions of literal meaning) die because the object of the assertion is to spiritualize away the 4th commandment of the Decalogue (which seems counterintuitive since it has already been urged that the ten commandments as a whole mystically "reside in Jesus," making a special assault on the 4th commandment seem unnecessary and strategically suspect) using smoke-and-mirrors for hermeneutics.

For my trouble, as a result of making a few comments about distractions, faulty hermeneutics, and pontificating, I'm now under attack by way of tagging, goading, and accusations of everything from antichrist spirit to Sabbath-desecration, to denial of God's omniscience and, by extension, power of foreknowledge, to denial of Truth and Scripture outright. So, I'm just doing my best to behave in a manner that won't bring shame upon my Saviour or cause thread closings.

 

[Bob Estey]

What day you need and what God made needed by man "for Man" - "the Son of Man" - to save His Own and Bring Him Up from the dead again, was "on the day which is after the Preparation...in fullness of being Sabbath...towards before the First Day of the week" Matthew 27--28, are different things that have no bearing the one on the other. Your day needed, is your own works of unrighteousness; and HIS DAY being "MY HOLY DAY", is "DAY APPOINTED", AS "MAN APPOINTED" FOR "JUDGEMENT". Acts 17.

I didn't understand that, but we need a day of rest each week - the Lord told us that, and I know he is always right.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

GE, if you want to throw your boundless, Adventist-loathing weight on the side of the Sabbath question that reduces it to a cruel joke instead of a divine precept and erroneously urges that Jesus was our Sabbath all along (since He changes not and therefore can't be something today that He wasn't in antiquity):

You'll get no opposition inconsistent with due respect for religious liberty from me.

There's been so much cross-posting and thread-jumping/creating that this discussion is nearly unfollowable, but my contention from the beginning has been that the LORD Jesus, as the distinct 2nd person of the Godhead, is nowhere mentioned within the text itself of Genesis 1 & 2.

And He simply isn't.

And no evidence to the contrary has yet been offered.

The plan of redemption is, indeed, in every word of God, but not in each word. And I shouldn't have to remind you, of all people, of that, GE.

Christ's particular identity was seen fit by God to be cloaked in the history of the earth taking place before the entrance of sin into the world.

He is later identified—not verified—in Scripture, as has been claimed (a distinction you should also be able to easily recognize).

This distinction is an exegetical (not personal) hill upon which I am willing to (figuratively, a specification sadly necessary to avoid assumptions of literal meaning) die because the object of the assertion is to spiritualize away the 4th commandment of the Decalogue (which seems counterintuitive since it has already been urged that the ten commandments as a whole mystically "reside in Jesus," making a special assault on the 4th commandment seem unnecessary and strategically suspect) using smoke-and-mirrors for hermeneutics.

For my trouble, as a result of making a few comments about distractions, faulty hermeneutics, and pontificating, I'm now under attack by way of tagging, goading, and accusations of everything from antichrist spirit to Sabbath-desecration, to denial of God's omniscience and, by extension, power of foreknowledge, to denial of Truth and Scripture outright. So, I'm just doing my best to behave in a manner that won't bring shame upon my Saviour or cause thread closings.

Hey Barn, This is the most complete post I've seen you do on your beliefs. I found it interesting.

I would just like to point out some things I know you know because I doubt they've changed since I was SDA.

In Genesis 1 and 2 that you point to in your post, did you know the word Elohim is the plural of God. So even though Jesus isn't mentioned (was that your point?) He, as the Word was there. But that specifically was written in John 1:1, 14. Therefore, Jesus was there. I agree he is hidden, but when you know the whole of the Bible it is no longer hidden, so why argue the point. (I don't know what GE said - I didn't read it)

As far as the relationship of Jesus with the Sabbath, He said Himself that he is Lord of the Sabbath.
Jesus as the Creator (when the Word) is written in the 4th commandment.

This will be new to you, but I want to know what your answer is.
What does Romans 7:6 mean to you? "But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter." Why do you prefer the letter of the law over the Spirit of the law? Or do you not know the difference?

Love you, brother

 

[CadyandZoe]

Will the Sabbath be a 'test of loyalty' in the end times? Will the Sabbath be the defining factor in ones salvation?
Many believers who are God fearing and upright do not observe Saturday as the Sabbath, so will the Sabbath be the litmus test that sets Gods people apart in the end?

No. I believe the first, not the fourth commandment will be the litmus test that sets God's people apart in the end.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

No. I believe the first, not the fourth commandment will be the litmus test that sets God's people apart in the end.

I believe the commandments of Jesus will set people apart in the end, and most importantly how you do these two you are abiding IN Christ.

1 John 3:23-24
23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.
24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him by His Spirit. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

Romans 8:9
9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.