A burning thorn bush:

[VictoryinJesus]

Just sharing a thought about "take off your sandals for the place on which you are standing is Holy Ground."
What is "Holy Ground"? What is “the Holy Ground” upon which you stand? The only place I can think of Holy "Ground" is in relation to the parables of that which is sown in good ground yields fruit unto God. In the parable it speaks of the ground as the heart.

in the Old Testament the other time "Holy Ground" is spoken of is when Moses approaches the burning thorn bush. Not just any ramble or burning thorn bush, but a burning thorn bush that isn’t consumed. Out from the burning thorn bush, The Lord speaks. He speaks of a time when men will turn away, not continuing on in the Glorious Liberty of the Lord (like with the mirror; being transformed from "glory" to "Glory"), and of a time when all men will want the ears to tingle turning away from sound doctrine. Moses goes to turn away from the burning thorn bush to see such a marvelous sight of "why the thorn bush burns but is not consumed? (It is by the Lord's mercies we are not consumed). Moses is told by the Lord speaking out from the Burning thorn bush (that ramble which is weak yet strengthened and not consumed by the Voice speaking from within it); Moses is told to remove his sandals for he stands upon "Holy Ground." (Or that is how i understood it.)

Consider for a moment how we carry this treasure in a weak earthen vessel that the Power be of God and not of men.
It is likely (Imo) that Stephen was a burning thorn bush out from which the Lord spoke: Stephen burned but not consumed, by the Voice speaking from within the burning. Paul asked for his thorn to be removed, yet the answer was "My strength is made perfect in weakness."

For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.​

For God, who commanded the Light to shine out of darkness, has shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.​

We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair; persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down. but not destroyed; always bearing about the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body. For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh. So then death works in us, but life in you.​

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A burning thorn bush bearing the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body. Why consider Stephen as a burning thorn bush out from which the Lord spoke?But some men from what was called the synagogue of the "Freedmen" rose up and argued with Stephen.​

But they were unable to cope with the Wisdom and the Spirit with which he was speaking.​

We have heard him speak blasphemous words against God.​

They dragged Stephen to the council.​

The put forward false witnesses who said "He speaks against the Holy Place and the Law. We heard him say this Nazarene, Jesus will destory this place and the customs handed down to us."​

Fixing their eyes on Stephen. all who were sitting in the council saw his face like the face of an angel.


What is Holy Ground?
What ground is the seed of God sown?

 

[David in NJ]

Just sharing a thought about "take off your sandals for the place on which you are standing is Holy Ground."
What is "Holy Ground"? What is “the Holy Ground” upon which you stand? The only place I can think of Holy "Ground" is in relation to the parables of that which is sown in good ground yields fruit unto God. In the parable it speaks of the ground as the heart.

in the Old Testament the other time "Holy Ground" is spoken of is when Moses approaches the burning thorn bush. Not just any ramble or burning thorn bush, but a burning thorn bush that isn’t consumed. Out from the burning thorn bush, The Lord speaks. He speaks of a time when men will turn away, not continuing on in the Glorious Liberty of the Lord (like with the mirror; being transformed from "glory" to "Glory"), and of a time when all men will want the ears to tingle turning away from sound doctrine. Moses goes to turn away from the burning thorn bush to see such a marvelous sight of "why the thorn bush burns but is not consumed? (It is by the Lord's mercies we are not consumed). Moses is told by the Lord speaking out from the Burning thorn bush (that ramble which is weak yet strengthened and not consumed by the Voice speaking from within it); Moses is told to remove his sandals for he stands upon "Holy Ground." (Or that is how i understood it.)

Consider for a moment how we carry this treasure in a weak earthen vessel that the Power be of God and not of men.
It is likely (Imo) that Stephen was a burning thorn bush out from which the Lord spoke: Stephen burned but not consumed, by the Voice speaking from within the burning. Paul asked for His thorn to be removed, yet the answer was "My strength is made perfect in weakness."

For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.​

For God, who commanded the Light to shine out of darkness, has shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.​

We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair; persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down. but not destroyed; always bearing about the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body. For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh. So then death works in us, but life in you.​

​

​

A burning thorn bush bearing the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body. Why consider Stephen as a burning thorn bush out from which the Lord spoke?But some men from what was called the synagogue of the "Freedmen" rose up and argued with Stephen.​

But they were unable to cope with the Wisdom and the Spirit with which he was speaking.​

We have heard his speak blasphemous words against God.​

They dragged Stephen to the council.​

The put forward false witnesses who said "He speaks against the Holy Place and the Law. We heard him say this Nazarene, Jesus will destory this place and the customs handed down to us."​

Fixing their eyes on Stephen. all who were sitting in the council saw his face like the face of an angel.


What is Holy Ground?
What ground is the seed of God sown?

How do you conclude the 'burning bush' had thorns?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

How do you conclude the 'burning bush' had thorns?

Acts 7:30 Lexicon: "After forty years had passed, AN ANGEL APPEARED TO HIM IN THE WILDERNESS OF MOUNT Sinai, IN THE FLAME OF A BURNING THORN BUSH.

Is it a bad translation already?
For me I would consider it had thorns because it was weak so the Power and Strength of God would be seen out from that which is weak…that it was not the power of the thorn bush or ramble, but by the power and strength of God that it wasn’t consumed?

 

[David in NJ]

Acts 7:30 Lexicon: "After forty years had passed, AN ANGEL APPEARED TO HIM IN THE WILDERNESS OF MOUNT Sinai, IN THE FLAME OF A BURNING THORN BUSH.

Is it a bad translation already?
For me I would consider it had thorns because it was weak so the Power and Strength of God would be seen out from that which is weak…that it was not the power of the thorn bush or ramble, but by the power and strength of God that it wasn’t consumed?

Consider this: thorns are a curse

Genesis 3:17-18
And to Adam HE said:
“Because you have listened to the voice of your wife
and have eaten from the tree
of which I commanded you not to eat,
cursed is the ground because of you;
through toil you will eat of it
all the days of your life.
Both thorns and thistles it will yield for you,

Now ask yourself, is God a curse?
Would God appear to Moses as a 'cursed' thing?


Isaiah 27:2-5
In that day sing to her,
“A vineyard of red wine!
I, the Lord, keep it,
I water it every moment;
Lest any hurt it,
I keep it night and day.
Fury is not in Me.
Who would set briers and thorns
Against Me in battle?
I would go through them,
I would burn them together.
Or let him take hold of My strength,
That he may make peace with Me;
And he shall make peace with Me.”

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Consider this: thorns are a curse

Genesis 3:17-18
And to Adam HE said:
“Because you have listened to the voice of your wife
and have eaten from the tree
of which I commanded you not to eat,
cursed is the ground because of you;
through toil you will eat of it
all the days of your life.
Both thorns and thistles it will yield for you,

Now ask yourself, is God a curse?
Would God appear to Moses as a 'cursed' thing?


Isaiah 27:2-5
In that day sing to her,
“A vineyard of red wine!
I, the Lord, keep it,
I water it every moment;
Lest any hurt it,
I keep it night and day.
Fury is not in Me.
Who would set briers and thorns
Against Me in battle?
I would go through them,
I would burn them together.
Or let him take hold of My strength,
That he may make peace with Me;
And he shall make peace with Me.”

Then what of Paul’s thorn in the flesh? Was it a curse?

 

[David in NJ]

Then what of Paul’s thorn in the flesh? Was it a curse?

Paul's "thorn in the flesh" was an infirmity in his physical body of which he was asking the LORD to be healed.

Only are spirits/souls are Born-Again when we come to to Christ.
Our physical bodies are still under the curse of death because "all have sinned".

Thus we who belong to Christ are eagerly awaiting His Coming and the Resurrection of the dead in Him = 1 Thess 4:13-18

Now consider this: Matthew 27:27-29

Then the soldiers of the governor took Jesus into the Praetorium and gathered the whole garrison around Him.
And they stripped Him and put a scarlet robe on Him.
When they had twisted a crown of thorns, they put it on His head, and a reed in His right hand. And they bowed the knee before Him and mocked Him, saying, “Hail, King of the Jews!”

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Paul's "thorn in the flesh" was an infirmity in his physical body of which he was asking the LORD to be healed.

Only are spirits/souls are Born-Again when we come to to Christ.
Our physical bodies are still under the curse of death because "all have sinned".

Thus we who belong to Christ are eagerly awaiting His Coming and the Resurrection of the dead in Him = 1 Thess 4:13-18

Now consider this: Matthew 27:27-29

Then the soldiers of the governor took Jesus into the Praetorium and gathered the whole garrison around Him.
And they stripped Him and put a scarlet robe on Him.
When they had twisted a crown of thorns, they put it on His head, and a reed in His right hand. And they bowed the knee before Him and mocked Him, saying, “Hail, King of the Jews!”

I feel you are wanting me to say there is no weakness. Because God would not reveal Himself in weakness. Even in the above they called Him cursed, but God spoke out from “He took on the likeness of sinful flesh”. You said God would not reveal Himself to Moses in a cursed thing? …how does God reveal Himself to us (His Love, Mercy, Grace and Truth) in the crucifixion?
Isaiah 53:2-12 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. [3] He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. [4] Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. [5] But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. [6] All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. [7] He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. [8] He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. [9] And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth. [10] Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand. [11] He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. [12] Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.


No one can or does ever agree on what Paul’s thorn was. Yet you are certain. 100percent. It can be debated but even that is a weakness. I get what you are saying about the bush could not have had thorns because God spoke out from it and God would not appear in something cursed. (Yet the Son of God was crucified on a cross)…and appears within us.

I do get that you don’t agree it had thorns …that it was a bush? But not a “thorn” bush …because that would make it a cursed thing. But to me that is the exactly point. That is had “thorns” yet because of the Voice of God and not of men speaking out from within it…it was blessed. Cursed of men. Yet called Blessed of God.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

How do you conclude the 'burning bush' had thorns?

Acts 7:30 Lexicon: "After forty years had passed, AN ANGEL APPEARED TO HIM IN THE WILDERNESS OF MOUNT Sinai, IN THE FLAME OF A BURNING THORN BUSH.

What translation do you use for Acts 7:30. Can you post it please.

 

[David in NJ]

I feel you are wanting me to say there is no weakness. Because God would not reveal Himself in weakness. Even in the above they called Him cursed, but God spoke out from “He took on the likeness of sinful flesh”. You said God would not reveal Himself to Moses in a cursed thing? …how does God reveal Himself to us (His Love, Mercy, Grace and Truth) in the crucifixion?
y gIsaiah 53:2-12 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a drround: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. [3] He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. [4] Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. [5] But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. [6] All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. [7] He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. [8] He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. [9] And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth. [10] Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand. [11] He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. [12] Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.


No one can or does ever agree on what Paul’s thorn was. Yet you are certain. 100percent. It can be debated but even that is a weakness. I get what you are saying about the bush could not have had thorns because God spoke out from it and God would not appear in something cursed. (Yet the Son of God was crucified on a cross)…and appears within us.

I do get that you don’t agree it had thorns …that it was a bush? But not a “thorn” bush …because that would make it a cursed thing. But to me that is the exactly point. That is had “thorns” yet because of the Voice of God and not of men speaking out from within it…it was blessed. Cursed of men. Yet called Blessed of God.

I feel you are wanting me to say there is no weakness. Because God would not reveal Himself in weakness. Even in the above they called Him cursed, but God spoke out from “He took on the likeness of sinful flesh”. You said God would not reveal Himself to Moses in a cursed thing? …how does God reveal Himself to us (His Love, Mercy, Grace and Truth) in the crucifixion?
Isaiah 53:2-12 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. [3] He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. [4] Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. [5] But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. [6] All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. [7] He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. [8] He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. [9] And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth. [10] Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand. [11] He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. [12] Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.


No one can or does ever agree on what Paul’s thorn was. Yet you are certain. 100percent. It can be debated but even that is a weakness. I get what you are saying about the bush could not have had thorns because God spoke out from it and God would not appear in something cursed. (Yet the Son of God was crucified on a cross)…and appears within us.

I do get that you don’t agree it had thorns …that it was a bush? But not a “thorn” bush …because that would make it a cursed thing. But to me that is the exactly point. That is had “thorns” yet because of the Voice of God and not of men speaking out from within it…it was blessed. Cursed of men. Yet called Blessed of God.

Isaiah 53:2-12 "For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant" = no thorns here

YES, i SEE now that the 'Burning Bush' indeed had thorns just as when the 'crown of thorns were placed upon His Head
as He became a curse for us.

Galatians 3: 13-14 - "Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us
(for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”), that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith."

The Crown of thorns he wore on His Head
the Place He took in our stead
Bearing all the curses of the Book which is read
Christ Sinless Blood poured out Red in our stead

Buried in Him we all shall die
Risen in Him we all shall Fly
Out of the Graves and this body of death
the Purchased Redemption are in His Breath

 

[David in NJ]

Acts 7:30 Lexicon: "After forty years had passed, AN ANGEL APPEARED TO HIM IN THE WILDERNESS OF MOUNT Sinai, IN THE FLAME OF A BURNING THORN BUSH.

What translation do you use for Acts 7:30. Can you post it please.

bush
βάτου (batou)
Noun - Genitive Feminine Singular
Strong's Greek 942: A thorn bush or bramble. Of uncertain derivation; a brier shrub.

OK - i SEE the thorns now

So, YES i would AGREE with Scripture and your OP.

Thank You

 

[David in NJ]

I feel you are wanting me to say there is no weakness. Because God would not reveal Himself in weakness. Even in the above they called Him cursed, but God spoke out from “He took on the likeness of sinful flesh”. You said God would not reveal Himself to Moses in a cursed thing? …how does God reveal Himself to us (His Love, Mercy, Grace and Truth) in the crucifixion?
Isaiah 53:2-12 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. [3] He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. [4] Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. [5] But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. [6] All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. [7] He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. [8] He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. [9] And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth. [10] Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand. [11] He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. [12] Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.


No one can or does ever agree on what Paul’s thorn was. Yet you are certain. 100percent. It can be debated but even that is a weakness. I get what you are saying about the bush could not have had thorns because God spoke out from it and God would not appear in something cursed. (Yet the Son of God was crucified on a cross)…and appears within us.

I do get that you don’t agree it had thorns …that it was a bush? But not a “thorn” bush …because that would make it a cursed thing. But to me that is the exactly point. That is had “thorns” yet because of the Voice of God and not of men speaking out from within it…it was blessed. Cursed of men. Yet called Blessed of God.

Keep in mind this:
a.) Christ had not one thorn coming from His Body = "He was tender plant" = Sinless
b.) the thorns only were placed on His Head when it was His Time to Finish the Work on the Cross
c.) AGREE - Burning Bush had thorns = thus a prophecy in itself

 

[VictoryinJesus]

bush
βάτου (batou)
Noun - Genitive Feminine Singular
Strong's Greek 942: A thorn bush or bramble. Of uncertain derivation; a brier shrub.

OK - i SEE the thorns now

So, YES i would AGREE with Scripture and your OP.

Thank You

Thank you. Your contributions are helpful. I do see your point though about thorns which has made me take a step back. I wasn’t meaning to bring focus to thorns but God overcoming them. Which I think you did well by bringing up other verses pertaining to thorns.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Thinking about the burning thorn bush.
And the mirror of being changed from glory to Glory.
With the mirror there are two that looks into it. One sees his natural face and is turned away, going his own way. The other looks and does not turn away seeing Liberty (the Face of Christ) therein; continues forward not offended being changed from glory to Glory. It reminds me of Jesus Christ asking “are you offended. will you go away also?” They asked “to whom or where would we go? When you hold the words of Life?” Where many turned away from Him and walked no more with Him.

To me this is similar to the thorn bush that is not consumed. Where God spoke out from both: the burning bush and out from the mirror. How does God speak out from the mirror? Is it by seeing Christ and Liberty and continuing on being changed from glory to Glory…is that not His still speaking?…instead of turned away (offended) by our natural face, but instead seeing the face of Jesus Christ. (Forgiveness, hope, grace, Love, Mercy and truth.) Consider the verse of to be blinded by the god of this world so that they don’t see the Glorious Light and Freedom that shines out of darkness. A Light has shine out from the darkness. A thorn bush. And an image shown reflected in a mirror. Shown within the mirror; our natural face, Or the face of Christ. Moses feared and hid his face when looking into the burning bush, hearing the voice of God speaking out from the thorn bush that was not consumed. Moses wondering why the bush was not consumed. To me it is much like the mirror and to be fearful to approach or to not approach. “Loving the darkness, they hide themselves refusing to come to the Light. That their deeds be made known. A work of God.” “With boldness we come”? “Believing as He is, so we are in this world”? To be consumed or to not be consumed. Why is the thorn bush not consumed? How can one continue and not turn away from the mirror being changed from our natural image(glory) unto the (Glory) of God, Christ? I’m confused over “thorns” on a “thorn bush” that is not consumed even though it burns. Paul asked “do you think I burn not?” How did Paul burn yet not be consumed? How did Stephen burn(their rage, their murder, their accusations, their gnashing and wrath charging forward at him); their seeing as the face of an angel, and they were unable to cope with the Wisdom and the Spirit with which he was speaking(in Christ). Yet Stephen, not consumed. “As dying, yet behold we Live” Stephens not consumed because Saul becomes Paul for the Glory of God, which Stephen shares the inheritance in “saints” with Paul. Enemies to Brothers. (Even God can make your enemies to be at peace with you.) When one rejoices, all rejoices. When one mourns, all mourn. Still, I think, the running of the race was passed onto the most unlikely standing there when Stephen was stoned. A miracle…maybe not as noted as the parting of the Red Sea or Jesus Christ coming out from a tomb but a miracle in the parting of Saul from Paul(a division or dividing asunder cut of separation not made by men’s hands but of God, of the circumcision of Christ; of Saul divided from Paul) where “yet not I live, but Christ Lives in me.”

A division “cut” separation not made of men. Consider the difference of when men “divide” “separate” or “set apart” …it always destroys relationships, made of men for the worse and not the better. How is it possible that when God “divided” “cut” “separated Saul and Paul…that relationship was restored? Actually relations made whole; made for the better instead made for the worse? I was reading an article about Scientology the other day. I know nothing about Scientology. Except it was talking about how under their Faith and beliefs if someone in their family …their children or spouses don’t believe then “cut them off.” “Be separated” from them, divide away from them. Children actually told it is for their good while they grow up fatherless. Or motherless. Or whole families torn apart by an imposed “until you agree with my say you are cut off from a relationship.” That is what I’ve heard my whole life in a lot of religion. Yet, in rambling this morning through this thread, it has become more obvious that God’s cut, His separation, His diving asunder by the sword to cut off…is to divide that which destroys relationship. What is the difference in the circumcision made with hands? And the Circumcision made without hands? Is the motive the same in that made with mens hands and that made of God?

We want or desire the faith of the disciples. To raise the dead. To open the eyes of the blind. To open the ears of the deaf. To heal the lame so that they walk again. Christ in Stephen…isn’t this what Christ did in Saul/Paul. Cut. Divided. separated. yet raging Enemies to the bond of Brothers. I still think Stephen did not turn away from Saul only seeing the natural face reflected, but continued on seeing the Glory of Christ, Liberty and freedom. We can debate what Paul’s thorn was, regardless a thorn was present and not removed; yet Christ was significant to be the strength (Perfection) that overcome the weakness.

I do get that is rambling. Working through what it means to me. How can there be thorns? Yet no thorns? How can there be
2 Corinthians 6:7-10 By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left, [8] By honour and dishonour, by evil report and good report: as deceivers, and yet true; [9] As unknown, and yet well known; as dying, and, behold, we live; as chastened, and not killed; [10] As sorrowful, yet alway rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Still considering the Greatest Love Story ever Told. Is that wrong to refer to His Love as a story? It seems wrong, like to water down by calling it a story.

Is it blasphemy to suggest Stephen and Paul is a continuation of that Greatest Love ever told? I’m drawn to love stories. Maybe that is the female in me but I search out love stories to watch on television. Maybe that is why Stephen and Paul stand out and I’m always drawn to this magnificent exchange between them. Not that they did anything so unique but that to me; it is a continuation of God’s Love. Where two seem like the worst of enemies as there could ever be…yet Something they do share…and that is Christ which has made them brothers.

Yes the love of a husband and a bride, or the love of a father and a mother, but also the Love of brothers, how Christ Loves not being ashamed to call them Brothers. Is it wrong to suggest Stephen and Paul’s common end and new beginning is as much the Greatest Love ever told, as Jesus Christ. How could it be wrong when it is Christ who revealed the Greatest Love, and continued His great Love in Stephen and Paul? Makes me consider how does the Life I Live (Hopefully) in Christ continue to reveal the Greatest Love ever told? If He lives and walks in us, is this a continuation, of the Greatest Love ever revealed?

 

[Mr E]

Just sharing a thought about "take off your sandals for the place on which you are standing is Holy Ground."
What is "Holy Ground"? What is “the Holy Ground” upon which you stand? The only place I can think of Holy "Ground" is in relation to the parables of that which is sown in good ground yields fruit unto God. In the parable it speaks of the ground as the heart.

in the Old Testament the other time "Holy Ground" is spoken of is when Moses approaches the burning thorn bush. Not just any ramble or burning thorn bush, but a burning thorn bush that isn’t consumed. Out from the burning thorn bush, The Lord speaks. He speaks of a time when men will turn away, not continuing on in the Glorious Liberty of the Lord (like with the mirror; being transformed from "glory" to "Glory"), and of a time when all men will want the ears to tingle turning away from sound doctrine. Moses goes to turn away from the burning thorn bush to see such a marvelous sight of "why the thorn bush burns but is not consumed? (It is by the Lord's mercies we are not consumed). Moses is told by the Lord speaking out from the Burning thorn bush (that ramble which is weak yet strengthened and not consumed by the Voice speaking from within it); Moses is told to remove his sandals for he stands upon "Holy Ground." (Or that is how i understood it.)

Consider for a moment how we carry this treasure in a weak earthen vessel that the Power be of God and not of men.
It is likely (Imo) that Stephen was a burning thorn bush out from which the Lord spoke: Stephen burned but not consumed, by the Voice speaking from within the burning. Paul asked for his thorn to be removed, yet the answer was "My strength is made perfect in weakness."

For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.​

For God, who commanded the Light to shine out of darkness, has shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.​

We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair; persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down. but not destroyed; always bearing about the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body. For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh. So then death works in us, but life in you.​

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A burning thorn bush bearing the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body. Why consider Stephen as a burning thorn bush out from which the Lord spoke?But some men from what was called the synagogue of the "Freedmen" rose up and argued with Stephen.​

But they were unable to cope with the Wisdom and the Spirit with which he was speaking.​

We have heard him speak blasphemous words against God.​

They dragged Stephen to the council.​

The put forward false witnesses who said "He speaks against the Holy Place and the Law. We heard him say this Nazarene, Jesus will destory this place and the customs handed down to us."​

Fixing their eyes on Stephen. all who were sitting in the council saw his face like the face of an angel.


What is Holy Ground?
What ground is the seed of God sown?

Holy ground means 'set apart' and holy ground then refers to soil (adamah) that has been set apart-- for a special purpose, or if you prefer it's a way of saying 'reserved' or 'appointed.' Think of a particular table situated by the window in a restaurant, that offers a spectacular view of the hills or beach at sunset, and that table has been set aside (reserved) for this reason, for one particular couple to dine on a certain day, at a certain time. Without any sort of religious connotation intended-- that would be a holy table, or holy ground from the perspective of the restauranteur and patrons alike. But you are on the right track in thinking that this reference to holy ground refers to a person-- in this case to Moses himself-- an 'earth-man' from the spiritual perspective, which is the realm where the exchange takes place.

And 'seeds' are indeed planted in this soil and from this soil come plants and weeds (brambles) alike.

 

[Mr E]

bush
βάτου (batou)
Noun - Genitive Feminine Singular
Strong's Greek 942: A thorn bush or bramble. Of uncertain derivation; a brier shrub.

OK - i SEE the thorns now

So, YES i would AGREE with Scripture and your OP.

Thank You

The root word in Hebrew is specific to 'prick' -- and the context is a desert plant.... We might think of a cactus, or Joshua tree.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Holy ground means 'set apart' and holy ground then refers to soil (adamah) that has been set apart-- for a special purpose, or if you prefer it's a way of saying 'reserved' or 'appointed.' Think of a particular table situated by the window in a restaurant, that offers a spectacular view of the hills or beach at sunset, and that table has been set aside (reserved) for this reason, for one particular couple to dine on a certain day, at a certain time. Without any sort of religious connotation intended-- that would be a holy table, or holy ground from the perspective of the restauranteur and patrons alike. But you are on the right track in thinking that this reference to holy ground refers to a person-- in this case to Moses himself-- an 'earth-man' from the spiritual perspective, which is the realm where the exchange takes place.

And 'seeds' are indeed planted in this soil and from this soil come plants and weeds (brambles) alike.

“Set apart” and the rest of your post. Maybe this isn’t significant but I was thinking about the Greatest Love story ever told. I was wondering if it is wrong to call it a story. BUT it did make me think of playing…someone would whisper something in someone’s ear and then as it passed around, crazy, how much it had changed by the time it reached the last person? Maybe that is a bad example but “set apart” I’m now thinking is returning to the beginning before it was passed and changed, so tampered with it does not resemble where begin. Returning to the origin (set apart?) or beginning again…”set apart”? How much the greatest love has changed by the time it gets to the last?

 

[Mr E]

“Set apart” and the rest of your post. Maybe this isn’t significant but I was thinking about the Greatest Love story ever told. I was wondering if it is wrong to call it a story. BUT it did make me think of playing…someone would whisper something in someone’s ear and then as it passed around, crazy, how much it had changed by the time it reached the last person? Maybe that is a bad example but “set apart” I’m now thinking is returning to the beginning before it was passed and changed, so tampered with it does not resemble where begin. Returning to the origin or beginning again…”set apart”? How much the greatest love has changed by the time it gets to the last?

It's a story alright. His story...... and he is coming for his bride. It's the ultimate love story.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

It's a story alright. His story...... and he is coming for his bride. It's the ultimate love story.

LOVE turns the whole song not empty and fictional headed for disappointment but holding truth and real and joyful and hopeful. More than a fairy tale. (Imo)

 

[VictoryinJesus]

It's a story alright. His story...... and he is coming for his bride. It's the ultimate love story.

Just to be clear. I wasn’t knocking Taylor’s song or criticizing it. I’m so glad you shared it with me. I put it on our wireless speaker the other day to listen to while doing housework. To be honest…I wasn’t a fan of the song, but now I am. What is encouraging about it the most to me is how the Sprit of God can speak through a song. I hear tons of Christian songs, that are hoped to be used to encourage Christ. I think of how often we hope while speaking a verse or word to someone else that God will use it to inspire, encourage, or touch someone’s heart. It floors me that the Spirit can speak through something I doubt Taylor Swift expected or plotted or planned out for God to use her song to tell …The most important Love Story. I love it! Because it does remind me how God speaks through marriage and relationships. and where we are pumping out Bible verses planned or plotted…yet sometimes it’s the most unlikely moments where we are unaware even what we are saying or doing …that He uses to encourage or inspire or touch someone. To me that is relaxing. Breathing easier. That it doesn’t have to be some grand planned or plotted out moment we foresee Him using, but instead He can take our least likely and speak a word to someone else when we are not even aware what He did.