People say you can not lose faith, God can't lose you, is that true?

[mailmandan]

None of those references support your contentions.

These references certainly do support my beliefs. You said, "we are not saved until Christ says we are saved after death and then judgement." Jesus said, "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has (present tense, right now) everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment (present tense, right now) but has passed (perfect tense; from the past to present) from death into life. (John 5:24) This takes place before death and judgment.

The apostle Paul said, "For by grace you have been (past tense, with ongoing present results) saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God." (Ephesians 2:8) This takes place before death and judgment.

The apostle Paul also said, "Therefore, having been (past tense, with ongoing present results) justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ." (Romans 5:1) This takes place before death and judgment.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Not at awards time.

lets see

some people will recieve great reward gold silver precious stone

Some will have all their works go up in flames because they did not produce fruit. yet still be saved as through fire..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

...............and the meaning of .....backsliding..... is presented in many times and many ways.
Why do you try to down play it with such small reference?

I answered your question.

In the OT, it speaks of a people who were close to God but allowed sin to cause them to fall back. Hurting their relationship with God. And hence bring about the discipline used to bring them back

The NT also speaks of this discipline or chastening of God used on those who fall back (backslide).

What it does not mean is to fall back to being the creature you were before God made you into a new creature. God changed you. You can not change yourself back.

Why did you ignore it and side step what I said by not responding to it.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

None of those references support your contentions.

so you are unable to actually respond to what people say. You just make some rude comment?

Why don;t you prove those passages do not support his contention instead of just saying it.. because you you just say it, it is words.. nothing else

 

[Eternally Grateful]

As Lamentations says "For no one is cast off by the Lord forever."

If punishment is "eternal" then this verse is false.

Its not false. it is you taking that verse out of context. read the whole chapter. the same author tells the lord to search and destroy his enemy..

 

[CadyandZoe]

What do you mean I have no hope, how can you judge?

I believe the intent is to ask about your source of hope, not in a judgmental way. In our idiom, we use the term "hope" loosely to mean "wish" as in "I hope it doesn't rain today." The Biblical authors, however, use the term "hope" to indicate "confident expectation."

Confidence requires evidence or perhaps trust. Rare is the occasion that someone might say, "I am confidently expecting it to rain today." But those who do, have wisdom on the matter, knowing how to "read" the weather patterns.

The following passage exemplifies the idea.

Romans 5:2-3

Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we exult in hope of the glory of God.​

Here the Apostle rests our hope on two conditions: 1) justification and 2)reconciliation. If these two conditions are present in me, then I can confidently expect to receive the glory of God. Our hope must be built on something or someone. And in this case, our hope for glory is built on our justification and our reconciliation with God.

One might claim that I have no hope, but their actual claim is that I lack a basis for my confidence. On what is my hope actually built?

Hope this is helpful. Understand I am not weighing in on the issue one way or the other.

 

[mailmandan]

I believe the intent is to ask about your source of hope, not in a judgmental way. In our idiom, we use the term "hope" loosely to mean "wish" as in "I hope it doesn't rain today." The Biblical authors, however, use the term "hope" to indicate "confident expectation."

Confidence requires evidence or perhaps trust. Rare is the occasion that someone might say, "I am confidently expecting it to rain today." But those who do, have wisdom on the matter, knowing how to "read" the weather patterns.

The following passage exemplifies the idea.

Romans 5:2-3

Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we exult in hope of the glory of God.​

Here the Apostle rests our hope on two conditions: 1) justification and 2)reconciliation. If these two conditions are present in me, then I can confidently expect to receive the glory of God. Our hope must be built on something or someone. And it this case, our hope for glory is built on our justification and our reconciliation with God.

One might claim that I have no hope, but their actual claim is that I lack a basis for my confidence. On what is my hope actually built?

Hope this is helpful. Understand, I am not weighing in on the issue one way or the other.

Amen! Biblical hope is certainly not some cross your fingers hope I win the lottery kind of hope. Unlike the English word "hope," the N.T. word contains no uncertainty; it speaks of something that is certain. - Strong's #1680 elpís (from elpō, "to anticipate, welcome") – properly, expectation of what is sure (certain); hope.

Strong's Greek: 1680. ἐλπίς (elpis) -- expectation, hope

www.biblehub.com

If we have saving faith in Christ, then we have this hope. Faith is the substance of things hoped for.. (Hebrews 11:1). So that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life (Titus 3:7). Praise God!

 

[MatthewG]

@CadyandZoe,

While your efforts are noticed, I thought my comment was towards someone else?

Anyway, thank you for digressing what you believe you needed to say,

I will still say - there is only faith, hope and love.

All the best,
Matthew

 

[Ritajanice]

Amen! Biblical hope is certainly not some cross your fingers hope I win the lottery kind of hope. Unlike the English word "hope," the N.T. word contains no uncertainty; it speaks of something that is certain. - Strong's #1680 elpís (from elpō, "to anticipate, welcome") – properly, expectation of what is sure (certain); hope.

Strong's Greek: 1680. ἐλπίς (elpis) -- expectation, hope

www.biblehub.com

If we have saving faith in Christ, then we have this hope. Faith is the substance of things hoped for.. (Hebrews 11:1). So that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life (Titus 3:7). Praise God!

Amen!!..our hope is in Christ, why, because we are Born Again!!!...

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Amen!!..our hope is in Christ, why, because we are Born Again!!!...

1 John 2:25
And this is the promise that He has promised us—eternal life.

1 John 5:11

And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.

1 John 5:13
These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

1 John 5:20
And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.

 

[Lambano]

So , GET A SNORTFUL of the bible for YOURSELF and stay in it and read it FOR YOU

Amigo,

Read your Bible.

 

[MatthewG]

Amigo,

Read your Bible.

If you snort it you learn faster.

Lambano.

All in good fun, Love to you @amigo de christo

 

[DJT_47]

The letter may have been written to Hebrew brethren, but that does not mean everyone in this group of "professing" Hebrew Christians were genuine Christians as I already showed you in post #33. It's not hard to find "nominal" Christians mixed in with any large group of "professing" Christians in various churches and on various Christian forum sites.

Saved is saved. There are no degrees of salvation, like really saved, for sure saved, kinda saved, etc. You either are or aren't. Whether you remain saved is another issue. The scripture says you must remain faithful unto death.

 

[MatthewG]

I know many who i went to church with who have lost their faith, well most have in fact.

The reason why is because they were what the Bible calls, of little faith.

The Faith they had did spring up within them but the cares of this world grew up like weeds and choked this faith.

Now i remember having faith in the Bible as well, but i had shadows of doubt in fact, so i asked questions all the time, i needed and was seeking to strengthen my resolve but all i go was just believe back from the rest in the Church.
Well how do i just believe if i truly have doubts. For there were points i needed to resolve for my self as i needed that, to prove too myself, or i could not move forward in fact with faith, i needed solid faith not just belief in what one may say. for i am skeptical of everything and that take everything with a grain of salt until i have proven such is the case.

Now i do believe that the ones who had faith, may still have that flicker of a flame within them, May ? Now i do not blame them ? for it's the weeds grew up and strangled this within them for the cares of this world are the weeds ! but as to saying just believe ? was never good enough for me, but with others that is up to them. but i am not like most people as i do not respond to blind faith.
I grew up to totally hate the RCC, but such hate forced me to seek to expose them and in doing so i found that the Prots were full of a lot of BS regarding the RCC but i found that the people within the RCC were just as the Prots were saying of them in fact !
So something was up, wrong ! Criminal Satanic people were within every Church denomination i found, leading them astray and the thing is such people did not care, Why because they did not seek but only swallowed ? for they want everything given to them ? seeking for yourself is hard work hours a day every day i would read and jot down points that i would ponder on and in time the books of the Bible started coming together making total sense, tho always so interesting to me, that i could not put it down until i could not see the words and just had to go to bed be it may be 3 in the morning maybe, for the zeal and love to read the Bible i was so keen. No other book comes close to the Bible at all, for it is so great !

If someone does not like reading the Bible i would say that they have little faith.

But Bible says that we need to have the faith that can move mountains ! and i totally believe that is a fact, that means one has to be truly born again. It's then that one can not turn ones back on Christ Jesus ever ! because you are as one With him in fact !

Bible points out, Oh ye of little faith, that's not good ! such a one has a problem ? that is an issue ! because such a one will not prevail, for they lack to be Israel. so we seen Jacob become Israel ! why because he was worthy, same with Nathaniel Jesus said so of him ! who he was and what he would see !
Nathaniel is the Key, every Christian should understand Nathaniel. such should be preached in the Church that everyone knows this issue is gold, but they don't for fear it will wake people up. Anti-Christ are in the Churches everywhere and they sure don't like some parts of the Bible to be mentioned at all in fact. because such exposes them in fact. for they are of this world set under delusions and deceptions that's sadly their life ! for the glory is not in Christ Jesus being the Kingdom.
For the worthy Christian is in Christ Jesus first and foremost in your life, because he is the wellspring for everything we can be in God, for that is the foundations our home. outside of this is full of deceptions and delusions of this world, for such has no foundations and one is truly lost in fact.

Thank you for sharing this @Reggie Belafonte,

Do you think there is possiblities of people that are in Church who preach and teach, that may just be traditions and when an individaul finds out tehy could be hurt and turn away from faith? Maybe a little later on in life, they return but perhaps start seeking out the information themselves, rather than trusting in Man and what they could say? Though they may consider what man says though now they are doing things with God alone seeking out for truth?

All in good faith,
Matthew

 

[MatthewG]

Saved is saved. There are no degrees of salvation, like really saved, for sure saved, kinda saved, etc. You either are or aren't. Whether you remain saved is another issue. The scripture says you must remain faithful unto death.

@DJT_47,

There are four definitions of saved, but the saved people should look to is having hope and faith to be saved to the Kingdom - and as you said it's a DAY to DAY, thing for individuals to choose, faith in Christ, with actions of love which God prepared for those who follow after him.

There are various measures of faith though - some are very far away from God, some are very close to God, in hope and in love.

All the best,
Matthew

 

[ChristisGod]

Some like to be wrong!!!

Find a single person who was saved, possessed eternal life and lost it.

If you cannot then its not true. Its as simple as that my friend.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Find a single person who was saved, possessed eternal life and lost it.

If you cannot then its not true. Its as simple as that my friend.

the pride people have is amazing, its amazing that they act like pharisees..but yet they deny they are anythign like them.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Saved is saved. There are no degrees of salvation, like really saved, for sure saved, kinda saved, etc. You either are or aren't. Whether you remain saved is another issue. The scripture says you must remain faithful unto death.

thats like saying your saved but then again you might not be saved

Since it is the penalty of sin we are saved from. we can;t be saved then unsaved, if that could be true, then we were never saved at all.

the other fact is we can not save ourselves. if this be true, we can not unsave our self either.

its all of God..

 

[Patrick1966]

Its not false. it is you taking that verse out of context. read the whole chapter. the same author tells the lord to search and destroy his enemy..

You are mistaken. It is not taken out of context. It is a general statement by the author acknowledging that God doesn't "cast off" forever. Your theology of forever punishment is warped and unbiblical.

 

[Patrick1966]

the pride people have is amazing, its amazing that they act like pharisees..but yet they deny they are anythign like them.

And yet you believe and teach that Jesus runs some sort of eternal death camp like Auschwitz wherein its captives are tortured and beaten nonstop by Jesus day in and day out. That is your twisted theology.