The 144,000 before God at the end.

[The Light]

Good Morning,

If Jesus said 'pre-trib' rapture/gathering THEN we would BELIEVE it.

FACT - No one has been able to find Jesus declaring pre-trib.

FACT - Here is Jesus declaring that we can escape the tribulation as the tribulation is ALL THESE THINGS that He talks about.

Luke 21
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

 

[David in NJ]

FACT - Here is Jesus declaring that we can escape the tribulation as the tribulation is ALL THESE THINGS that He talks about.

Luke 21
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Good Morning,

i just escaped 'tribulation' last night = all praise to the LORD Jesus

 

[amigo de christo]

Good Morning,

i just escaped 'tribulation' last night = all praise to the LORD Jesus

The hour cometh and now is when the world and her all inclusive love religoins who have merged as one under the dragon
THOUGH they believe it to be GOD , will arise as one . one mind , one heart . THEN shall arise great tribulation
against the lambs who conformed not . Even now persecutions and tribulations , laws and times be changing .

 

[amigo de christo]

Good Morning,

i just escaped 'tribulation' last night = all praise to the LORD Jesus

What i say next might even seem impossible to believe . but i tell us all anway .
The generation which hollers love more than any other generation and calls for all kinds of tolerance and judge not
WILL BE and IS THE GENERATION that will have no mercy , no none but will cry with great vengeance RID THIS EARTH OF
any who conformed not to our love and our inclusivity and our god and our hope and our salvation .
If that seemth hard to believe that a generation who came to power by preaching non stop about this love
can truly be so HATEFUL and the very judgers and monsters they cliam us to be .
TRY having even a conversation with them even now . Just watch out for all the cuss words and being called hater
and wild swung punches and kicks they will bring on you . THIS LUV generation IS THE GREATEST HATE generation ever been and ever
will be too . And its gonna get far worse . The time will come when they will holler GOD IS LOVE
as they are cheering your death . Saying we are the haters as they PUT US TO DEATH . now ponder on that for a while .

 

[No Pre-TB]

Acts 3
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

The Word in Acts 3:21 does NOT say that Jesus cannot leave heaven till the time to restore all things. The Word says that heaven MUST RECEIVE Him until the times of restitution of all things.

That means if He leaves heaven, heaven MUST RECEIVE him until the restitution of all things. There is no mention that He cannot leave heaven. This is just something that people without understanding have used in an attempt to disprove the truth. Attempt fails.

The heavens must receive him UNTIL the restitution which interpreted is restoration of all things. How can he leave heaven, where he is now, if God says he can’t until such a time? Is God a liar? No.

Is the restoration of all things before the tribulation or after? After.

Then how can a standard pre-tb theory state that we are raptured before if he can’t leave heaven till after?

Otherwise, if pre-tb was right and Acts 3:21 is right, that would mean the time to restore and Christ leaving heaven would have to happen before the seals. That would imply there’s no 7 year tribulation because for there to be restoration, there cannot exist those things needed to be removed.

 

[No Pre-TB]

have crowns. That means Jesus has come.

There is much opinion in this statement without posted scriptural fact. Opinions without scripture that says otherwise are wasted. Clouds without water.

Do you know the pattern in heaven that Moses was shown?

Do you know the elders sit on 24 thrones and the 12 disciples sit on 12, not 24 thrones.

How you ever contemplated why the Elders are elder to John if he is one of the original 12?

Have you thought about why they exist in Ch 4 and Christ is missing from Heaven when John views the entire throne room?

How are the elders the church if the bride isn’t ready? If she’s not ever wearing white linen yet?

These are issues of concern

 

[The Light]

The heavens must receive him UNTIL the restitution which interpreted is restoration of all things. How can he leave heaven, where he is now, if God says he can’t until such a time? Is God a liar? No.

Is the restoration of all things before the tribulation or after? After.

Heaven must receive Him until the restitution of all things. That means when He comes for the dead in Christ, heaven must receive Him when He returns to heaven. That means that when He returns for alive that remain. Heaven must receive when He returns to heaven. When Jesus goes to the earth for the 144,000 first fruits, heaven must receive Him when He returns to heaven.

In Revelation 14 we see the 144,000 on earth with Jesus. And then we see the 144,000 in heaven.

Revelation 14
1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

Do you claim that Jesus does not return to the earth for the 144,000???????????

I've noted that fail to answer any questions where there is Biblical proof showing you are incorrect. Can you answer the above question?

Then how can a standard pre-tb theory state that we are raptured before if he can’t leave heaven till after?

The Word DOES NOT SAY THAT JESUS CANNOT LEAVE HEAVEN. Thats what you say. It does not say that in the Word. It says heaven must receive Him until the restitution of all things. That means If He leaves, heaven must receive Him when He returns.

The book is unsealed. You need to drop this 1500 year old nonsense and pay attention to what is written, not what is passed down from those who made conclusions when the book was sealed.

Otherwise, if pre-tb was right and Acts 3:21 is right, that would mean the time to restore and Christ leaving heaven would have to happen before the seals.

If Pretrib is right, which it is, and Acts 3:21 is right, which it is, that means heaven MUST receive Christ when He returns to heaven with those raptured pretrib. It's pretty simple if you just read what it says.

That would imply there’s no 7 year tribulation because for there to be restoration, there cannot exist those things needed to be removed.

You make a lot of false conclusions. There will be a pretrib rapture and heaven must receive Jesus when He returns. There will be 144,000 first fruits and heaven must receive Jesus when He returns to heaven. (The FACT that we can see that Jesus returns to the earth for the 144,000 proves without question that your understand of Acts3:21 is in error.

Of course Jesus comes to the clouds at the 6th seal for a harvestand when He returns to heaven it must receive Him. Simple stuff.

 

[brightfame52]

The 144000 is the Sheep, which follow Him Jn 10:27-28

 

[David in NJ]

This is the fact that most miss. As you say, the 144,000 are first fruits. That means that there will be a harvest.
Therefore, the 144,000 are not the Church and the 144,000 are not all of Israel. They are EXACTLY what the Word says they are........first fruits. And that means that there will be a harvest and that harvest is seen in Revelation 6, Matthew 24 and Revelation 14.

my Brother @rebuilder 454 was unwilling to be on the Straight and Narrow Path with Romans 11:25-27

How about you Brother???

JESUS verified Romans 11:25-27 in the Gospel.

Do you know where HE said it???

 

[No Pre-TB]

Heaven must receive Him until the restitution of all things. That means when He comes for the dead in Christ, heaven must receive Him when He returns to heaven.

Look at the context and stop guessing and contorting scripture.

Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; 20And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 21Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

God will send Jesus, which was preached to all of us about his second advent that he should come back. And heaven must receive him till that time comes in the restoration of all things. He is in heaven now and must be kept there till he is sent. A child could understand this.

Do not call God a liar!

Whom the heaven must receive.—The words have a pregnant force: “must receive and keep.

The word "Until" implies he would not leave heaven since his ascendance, then he shall return to earth at the restoration of all things from a corrupted state.

Whom the heaven must receive; that is, contain after it hath received him, as a real place doth a true body; for such Christ’s body was, which was received into heaven: Until the times of restitution of all things; or restoration of all things, when all things shall be restored to that condition from which sin put them

From Got questions:

The same Messiah who died for them would one day return for them (Acts 3:20). Now, Christ is in heaven until the time of restoration of all things that the Hebrew prophets had described (Acts 3:21).

The time of restoration of all things is mentioned by Paul: “The creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God” (Romans 8:21). John recorded Jesus saying, “I am making everything new!” (Revelation 21:5).

Neither of which is on a Pre-TB timeline. I can post my thoughts on it, I can post over 20 commentaries on it, I can post a few Pastors sermons on it, I can post random responses from Got Questions.com and Wiki on it as well as other people from various blogs, forums and such and guess what @The Light - They all agree with how it's written except YOU!

I trust in God's word to lead me and I hold his word as the highest authority. But I still will look at other's writings to gain insight though I take it all with a grain of salt. These people are amills, premills, Baptists, assembly of God, Lutherns etc and they all read this one text the same way. But you distort it to try and fit something it cannot. When people cannot even read a sentence and understand it, we have a bigger problem in this country.

 

[No Pre-TB]

The Word DOES NOT SAY THAT JESUS CANNOT LEAVE HEAVEN

The word says Heaven must receive him UNTIL. If that were true, it could not say "must recieve him Until" which it does.

 

[The Light]

my Brother @rebuilder 454 was unwilling to be on the Straight and Narrow Path with Romans 11:25-27

How about you Brother???

JESUS verified Romans 11:25-27 in the Gospel.

Do you know where HE said it???

Well sure I do. In Israel.

 

[The Light]

The word says Heaven must receive him UNTIL. If that were true, it could not say "must recieve him Until" which it does.

Well, we can prove your understanding of the verse is in TOTAL ERROR by Revelation 14

How can Jesus be on Mount Sion to redeem the 144,000 first fruits if He cannot leave heaven?

Revelation 14
1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

When are you going to accept the truth of the Word and get these false teachings behind you?

 

[ewq1938]

Well, we can prove your understanding of the verse is in TOTAL ERROR by Revelation 14

How can Jesus be on Mount Sion to redeem the 144,000 first fruits if He cannot leave heaven?

He leaves heaven when the 7th trump sounds, after that is when he is seen with the 144k.

 

[David in NJ]

Well sure I do. In Israel.

Post the scripture please - thank you

 

[amigo de christo]

Post the scripture please - thank you

Rounds flying down range . Flood this place with all biblical truth . The hour grows late david .
And what i say to you i say to all , the harlot has infiltrated all places through the guise of a trogan peace n love horse .
yeah , the gates have been infiltrated big time while men slept under the shade of a peace offering of a trogan horse .
Contend for the true faith till the last breath my friend .

 

[amigo de christo]

 

[amigo de christo]

Choose ye this day whom ye shall believe , the inclusive ones who holler God is love and the path to HIM is BROAD
or JESUS HIMSELF who said HE alone was the only way to GOD and that ONE MUST BELIEVE to be saved .
AS FOR ME and the lambs , WE IS GONNA BELIEVE JESUS CHRIST .

 

[amigo de christo]

 

[The Light]

God will send Jesus, which was preached to all of us about his second advent that he should come back. And heaven must receive him till that time comes in the restoration of all things. He is in heaven now and must be kept there till he is sent. A child could understand this.

Do not call God a liar!

Wasn't it you that was crying at my tone a couple days ago. And you claim that I call God a liar, when you walk without understanding? Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.

Whom the heaven must receive.—The words have a pregnant force: “must receive and keep.

WHAT??????????? A PREGNANT FORCE??????? What a load. Are you going to drag out Ellicott's commentary that was written when the book was sealed. And no fault of his. The book was sealed. What is he going to know? He's just making stuff up trying to make sense of things. If he noted that Jesus is on mount Sion in Revelation 14 he would have realized that Jesus does leave heaven just as the Word proclaims. So this is total nonsense that does not agree with the written Word of God. PREGNANT FORCE...........LOL. We can use that line to BIRTH all kinds of made up nonsense.

The word "Until" implies he would not leave heaven since his ascendance, then he shall return to earth at the restoration of all things from a corrupted state.

Whom the heaven must receive; that is, contain after it hath received him, as a real place doth a true body; for such Christ’s body was, which was received into heaven: Until the times of restitution of all things; or restoration of all things, when all things shall be restored to that condition from which sin put them

From Got questions:

The same Messiah who died for them would one day return for them (Acts 3:20). Now, Christ is in heaven until the time of restoration of all things that the Hebrew prophets had described (Acts 3:21).

The time of restoration of all things is mentioned by Paul: “The creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God” (Romans 8:21). John recorded Jesus saying, “I am making everything new!” (Revelation 21:5).

Neither of which is on a Pre-TB timeline. I can post my thoughts on it, I can post over 20 commentaries on it, I can post a few Pastors sermons on it, I can post random responses from Got Questions.com and Wiki on it as well as other people from various blogs, forums and such and guess what @The Light - They all agree with how it's written except YOU!

All they have to do is read Revelation 14 and they will understand that Jesus does leave heaven before the restitution of all things. Which proves that they are misrepresenting what the Word say. The Word clearly says WHOM HEAVEN MUST RECEIVE. If Jesus leaves, heaven must receive Him back when He returns. Jesus also comes for the harvest in Revelation 14. And we are not even counting pretrib.

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

We know that Jesus is received back to heaven with the great multitude BEFORE the wrath of God.

I trust in God's word to lead me and I hold his word as the highest authority. But I still will look at other's writings to gain insight though I take it all with a grain of salt. These people are amills, premills, Baptists, assembly of God, Lutherns etc and they all read this one text the same way. But you distort it to try and fit something it cannot. When people cannot even read a sentence and understand it, we have a bigger problem in this country.

When the Word of God PROVES these commentaries wrong, I believe the Word of God. I don't care who says what, the book is now unsealed. All these false teachings just lead people astray.