One reason why the rapture can not be post-trib

[teamventure]

Where does that say anything about Him coming to earth?

It is clearly him coming to where the people are. The people are here on earth not at the GWT.

 

[teamventure]

Do you believe the verse is a literal narrative? Will it be a literal millennial kingdom on Earth for 1,000 years where animals will sit next to each other? Or is God painting a picture representing something?

The passage looks literal to me.

 

[teamventure]

Name one scripture that Amil contradicts. Preferably one that is clear and straightforward rather than a highly debatable one.

See post #220

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

One of the Amil people on here were the first to say that premil is a false doctrine without proving it so...

So? That gives you an excuse to make that claim about Amil without proving it so?

The proof against Amil is to read the Bible and believe it to be true.

This is weak to just make claims like this without backing it up. Back up your claims with scripture. The Bible does not teach Premillennialism, so it is you that needs to read your Bible. Ask God for wisdom when you do so (James 1:5-7).

Open up the Bible and start reading and actually believe what it states plainly. That defeats Amil.

Prove it. Your words are meaningless without any scripture to back them up.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The passage looks literal to me.

It looks literal to you? It looks to me that you use your own limited human wisdom to interpret scripture. Is that what scripture itself tells us to do? Have you ever read 1 Corinthians 2:9-16? Paul makes it clear there that we need to use spiritual discernment from the Holy Spirit to interpret scripture, not our own fallible human wisdom.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

See post #220

Post #220 has no scripture in it. I asked for one scripture that Amil contradicts. Should I take this response to me that you have none? It seems to me that you like to make all kinds of claims, but you are incapable of backing them up with scripture.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

It is clearly him coming to where the people are. The people are here on earth not at the GWT.

Where does it say that? You are clearly just making assumptions here and not proving anything. Scripture says we will meet Him in the air when He comes. Where does it say we are then taken to the earth? Where does Matthew 25:31-46 say anything about Him coming to the earth? It doesn't. Your beliefs are based on nothing except assumptions and speculation.

 

[teamventure]

Name one scripture that Amil contradicts. Preferably one that is clear and straightforward rather than a highly debatable one.

The person I was debating was the first to say the opposite of what you're replying to about premil. I was just showing them that the argument can go both ways.
So name one scripture that Premil contradicts.

Oh, really? Let's put your claim to the test. Do you believe this?

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Do you believe that a singular time is coming during which all of the dead will be raised? Or do you believe that dead will be raised at multiple times separated by, say, a thousand plus years?

Do you believe this?

Acts 17:30 In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. 31 For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.”

Do you believe that there is one judgment day where God will judge "everyone" in "the world"? Or do you believe in multiple judgment days?

Do you believe this?

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare. 11 Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. 13 But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells.

Peter indicated that the day of the Lord is the day that the Lord will fulfill the promise of His second coming. And he indicated that on that day the Lord will burn up the heavens and the earth. And he indicated that the new heavens and new earth will be the fulfillment of His promise of His second coming. Do you believe all of that or do you believe He will instead allow some mortals to survive His second coming and enter into a so-called earthly millennial kingdom?

Yes there is one reserection of the wicked souls I agree.

John 5:29 and come out

And shall come forth; they that have done good, to the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, to the resurrection of damnation.

 

[rwb]

Thank you for posting scripture.
Smiting the earth and slaying the wicked sound like they are in the future.

Also, I'm glad we see that he smites slays the wicked because that is another point to shut up the idea that the wicked enter the kingdom.

I agree, this passage was indeed future for Isaiah. Because Isaiah's prophesy points to the first advent of the promised Messiah; Christ Jesus our Lord, Who was to come in His day. This prophesy began to be fulfilled when Jesus Christ, the Son of God came to earth a man. The prophecies cannot be rightly discerned without understanding the prophets foretell of the coming of Christ, when all things written concerning Him would come to pass.

 

[teamventure]

Post #220 has no scripture in it. I asked for one scripture that Amil contradicts. Should I take this response to me that you have none? It seems to me that you like to make all kinds of claims, but you are incapable of backing them up with scripture.

You Amil were the first to say that Premil is a false doctrine without one scripture to prove it. The burden of proof is on you.

 

[rwb]

It sounds more like you are projecting that on me. Scripture is meant to be interpreted by what it plainly states, and Amil makes up complicated ideas out of the plain text.

Please stop making unfounded assumptions regarding Amil doctrine. You've already admitted that you really know very little regarding the doctrine of Amil. If you can, show how Amil "makes up complicated ideas out of the plain text". If you could give an example of this then perhaps myself and others who adhere to Amil doctrine might be able to show you why you have not rightly understood the doctrine of Amil.

 

[teamventure]

Where does it say that? You are clearly just making assumptions here and not proving anything. Scripture says we will meet Him in the air when He comes. Where does it say we are then taken to the earth? Where does Matthew 25:31-46 say anything about Him coming to the earth? It doesn't. Your beliefs are based on nothing except assumptions and speculation.

What you are saying is not described in the passage of scripture at hand. You are assuming.

 

[teamventure]

Please stop making unfounded assumptions regarding Amil doctrine. You've already admitted that you really know very little regarding the doctrine of Amil. If you can, show how Amil "makes up complicated ideas out of the plain text". If you could give an example of this then perhaps myself and others who adhere to Amil doctrine might be able to show you why you have not rightly understood the doctrine of Amil.

Look, in all fairness, I made this thread to discuss the post-trib rapture, then before I knew it, people started coming in here talking about Amil and Premil, and calling Premil false doctrine. I'm not the one who brought up Amil at all. I'm just replying to all the posts. If you guys want to debate Amil, go make another thread aboub it.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

It sounds more like you are projecting that on me. Scripture is meant to be interpreted by what it plainly states, and Amil makes up complicated ideas out of the plain text.

Please read my post #218 where I quoted some plainly stated scripture passages which support Amil, but not Premil.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

What you are saying is not described in the passage of scripture at hand. You are assuming.

You are doing absolutely nothing to support your claims with scripture. You need to start doing that if you want to be taken seriously. How am I the one making assumptions about Matthew 25:31-46, when you are the one claiming that it's talking about something taking place on earth even though it does not say that anywhere in the passage?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Look, in all fairness, I made this thread to discuss the post-trib rapture, then before I knew it, people started coming in here talking about Amil and Premil, and calling Premil false doctrine. I'm not the one who brought up Amil at all. I'm just replying to all the posts. If you guys want to debate Amil, go make another thread aboub it.

Amils believe in a post-trib rapture. You seemed to only be aware of the post-trib premil view, so it became necessary to teach you that there are other views. Your original post really only addresses the post-trib, premil view. Amils like myself are showing how there can be a post-trib rapture from the Amil perspective, which I think is valid in a thread where you are trying to disprove the possibility of a post-trib rapture.

 

[teamventure]

Please read my post #218 where I quoted some plainly stated scripture passages which support Amil, but not Premil.

I already replied to that post.

 

[teamventure]

You are doing absolutely nothing to support your claims with scripture. You need to start doing that if you want to be taken seriously. How am I the one making assumptions about Matthew 25:31-46, when you are the one claiming that it's talking about something taking place on earth even though it does not say that anywhere in the passage?

Because it doesn't imply otherwise.
It's a bigger assumption to assume it's not on earth when it doesn't say that anywhere in the passage.

 

[marks]

Please stop making unfounded assumptions regarding Amil doctrine. You've already admitted that you really know very little regarding the doctrine of Amil. If you can, show how Amil "makes up complicated ideas out of the plain text". If you could give an example of this then perhaps myself and others who adhere to Amil doctrine might be able to show you why you have not rightly understood the doctrine of Amil.

Amil requires you disbelieve the plain statements of narrative prophecy. Plain and simple.

Revelation 20:1-6 KJV
1) And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2) And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3) And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4) And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5) But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6) Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

This is narrative prophecy, and will be fulfilled exactly as written.

Nothing in Scripture denies that is so. Either you believe this passage, or you do not.

Much love!

 

[teamventure]

Amils believe in a post-trib rapture. You seemed to only be aware of the post-trib premil view, so it became necessary to teach you that there are other views. Your original post really only addresses the post-trib, premil view. Amils like myself are showing how there can be a post-trib rapture from the Amil perspective, which I think is valid in a thread where you are trying to disprove the possibility of a post-trib rapture.

Ok fair enough.