One reason why the rapture can not be post-trib

[teamventure]

Putting arguments about the pre-trib rapture aside, there is one big reason why the rapture can not be post-trib.

The rapture can not be post trib because if all the believers were raptured at the time of the second coming, there would be no one left in mortal bodies to live into the 1,000 year reign and re-populate the earth.

As put by Marks: If all the righteous were raptured - translated to the incorruptible - and all the wicked are sent to punishment when the Lord comes, no one would remain in natural flesh having babies, continuing generations as prophesied in the Bible past the second coming.
Thoughts?

 

[Marty fox]

Putting arguments about the pre-trib rapture aside, there is one big reason why the rapture can not be post-trib.

The rapture can not be post trib because if all the believers were raptured at the time of the second coming, there would be no one left in mortal bodies to live into the 1,000 year reign and re-populate the earth.

Thoughts?

Unless the second coming is at the end of the world on the judgement day just like Jesus told us that it would be

Matthew 25
31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left

 

[ewq1938]

Putting arguments about the pre-trib rapture aside, there is one big reason why the rapture can not be post-trib.

The rapture can not be post trib because if all the believers were raptured at the time of the second coming, there would be no one left in mortal bodies to live into the 1,000 year reign and re-populate the earth.

The question is flawed but could equally be posed against Pre-trib since it really has nothing to do with when the rapture happens but more about who is supposed to live on Earth during the Millennium.


There's a huge amount of mortals who are not believers that will be ruled over during the Millennium.

 

[ewq1938]

Unless the second coming is at the end of the world on the judgement day just like Jesus told us that it would be

Matthew 25
31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left

That isn't the second coming meaning coming from heaven to Earth. That is a coming from Earth to the GWTJ place which does not happen at the timeframe of the second coming.

 

[teamventure]

Unless the second coming is at the end of the world on the judgement day just like Jesus told us that it would be

Matthew 25
31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left

That is at his second coming and before the millenium. Or do you not believe in the millenial kingdom?

 

[teamventure]

The question is flawed but could equally be posed against Pre-trib since it really has nothing to do with when the rapture happens but more about who is supposed to live on Earth during the Millennium.


There's a huge amount of mortals who are not believers that will be ruled over during the Millennium.

Not at first. At the beginning of the millenium there will only be believers. That is the reason for the sheep and goat judgement.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Putting arguments about the pre-trib rapture aside, there is one big reason why the rapture can not be post-trib.

The rapture can not be post trib because if all the believers were raptured at the time of the second coming, there would be no one left in mortal bodies to live into the 1,000 year reign and re-populate the earth.

Thoughts?

The scenario for me, hypothetically, could be this. There have been 3.5 years of dominant rule in Europe under the "Man of Sin." He rules over 10 major European nations, from East to West, and this superpower knows no equivalent rivals. It may include nations as diverse as the US and Russia, both European-originated powers.

Europe is the heart of original Christianity, and the Man of Sin focuses all of the progressive ideas on himself, instead of on the "out-moded" Christ. He fancies himself the "next big thing" on planet earth, and demands conformity to bring the world into his new "paradise."

Christians, therefore, are severely restricted, and persecuted when they don't obey. Tolerance is the word of the day, and Christians are viewed as intolerant and the spark that causes society's fires. And so, Christianity becomes a very formal affair, with much less religious emotion. Religion becomes very structured and lifeless. Those who want to feel religion is "alive" turn to the False Prophet for a new experience in the modern world. Religion becomes focused on the political idealism of the Beast.

In this environment, true born-again Christians not only become rare in Europe, but they become rare across the earth, because world trade is centered on the Antichrist's Empire. It is all controlled by Rome, because it is thought this Man of Sin cannot be challenged. He has a dominant military.

Eventually, Asian powers challenge the Man of Sin, and are lured to the Middle East, where a war plan is hatched. The result is a world war with nuclear bombs. When the dust settles, many genuine Christians have died, not just in Europe under the Antichrist, but also as innocent casualties of a war that kills millions. How many real Christians, then, remain alive unto the coming of Christ? How many will be caught up to meet him in the air?

I don't think it will be that many, and I don't even think it will be fully appreciated. The missing Christians may well be thought to have perished in the nuclear war. Who then enters into the Millennial Age as Christians?

I suggest that the many formal Christians who had lost all sense of what true Christianity is will awaken when the Battle is over, and the Christian Kingdom appears on the scene. Israel converts to Christianity, and many spiritually-"dead" Christians come to life and become genuine Christians.

That's one possible scenario. If I can think of just this one, how is it that Postrib is an impossible scenario?

 

[ewq1938]

Not at first. At the beginning of the millenium there will only be believers. That is the reason for the sheep and goat judgement.

That happens after the Millennium. The Mill. is the rule over mortal unsaved nations. Believers would not need to be ruled over with a rod of iron. They are specifically overcomers that will be ruling over the nations proving the ones ruled over are not believers because they did not overcome like the others.

Rev 2:25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.
Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
Rev 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

 

[BlessedPeace]

Putting arguments about the pre-trib rapture aside, there is one big reason why the rapture can not be post-trib.

The rapture can not be post trib because if all the believers were raptured at the time of the second coming, there would be no one left in mortal bodies to live into the 1,000 year reign and re-populate the earth.

Thoughts?

As I understand it, there's the rapture first and then Jesus' second coming. And then the tribulation.

 

[ewq1938]

As I understand it, there's the rapture first and then Jesus' second coming. And then the tribulation.

Actually it's the Coming, resurrection then rapture is VERY quick order.


1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.(second coming reference)
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord (second coming reference) shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven (second coming reference) with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: (the resurrection of the dead in Christ)
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (the rapture)

The resurrection only happens at the second coming and the second coming can only happen after the trib has ended, and since the verses tell us the rapture happens AFTER the resurrection and second coming means these verses decisively prove the rapture is post-trib not pre-trib.

It's that simple.

Christ also spoke of the rapture but used the wording of saints being gathered together, and no surprise, placed it after the end of the Great Tribulation.

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation (great tribulation has ended) of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven(second coming reference): and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming (second coming reference) in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect (*another way to speak of the Rapture) from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

*(also see 2nd Thessalonians 2:1 for the same language regarding the Rapture ie: a gathering)

Timing of the gathering/rapturing is exactly the same in these two passages. In both we have saved Christians being moved from one place to another and in both that happens after the tribulation has ended and when the second coming has commenced.

 

[BlessedPeace]

Actually it's the Coming, resurrection then rapture is VERY quick order.


1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.(second coming reference)
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord (second coming reference) shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven (second coming reference) with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: (the resurrection of the dead in Christ)
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (the rapture)

The resurrection only happens at the second coming and the second coming can only happen after the trib has ended, and since the verses tell us the rapture happens AFTER the resurrection and second coming means these verses decisively prove the rapture is post-trib not pre-trib.

It's that simple.

Christ also spoke of the rapture but used the wording of saints being gathered together, and no surprise, placed it after the end of the Great Tribulation.

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation (great tribulation has ended) of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven(second coming reference): and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming (second coming reference) in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect (*another way to speak of the Rapture) from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

*(also see 2nd Thessalonians 2:1 for the same language regarding the Rapture ie: a gathering)

Timing of the gathering/rapturing is exactly the same in these two passages. In both we have saved Christians being moved from one place to another and in both that happens after the tribulation has ended and when the second coming has commenced.

I disagree.

 

[ewq1938]

I disagree.

The scriptures disagree with your disagreement. This is a case of belief VS. scripture.

 

[Keraz]

The rapture can not be post trib because if all the believers were raptured at the time of the second coming, there would be no one left in mortal bodies to live into the 1,000 year reign and re-populate the earth.

What will happen when Jesus Returns, is that all of His faithful people will be gathered to Him, as Matthew 24:31 and 2 Thess 4:17 state.
They are transported from wherever they are on earth to where Jesus is going to; Jerusalem.
Only them will go into the Millennium, the 'goats' will all be destroyed.

The fanciful idea of people going to heaven will never happen. Jesus refutes it; John 3:13

 

[ewq1938]

What will happen when Jesus Returns, is that all of His faithful people will be gathered to Him, as Matthew 24:31 and 2 Thess 4:17 state.
They are transported from wherever they are on earth to where Jesus is going to; Jerusalem.

The bible says they will be brought to the clouds.

1Th_4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

 

[marks]

Putting arguments about the pre-trib rapture aside, there is one big reason why the rapture can not be post-trib.

The rapture can not be post trib because if all the believers were raptured at the time of the second coming, there would be no one left in mortal bodies to live into the 1,000 year reign and re-populate the earth.

Thoughts?

Naturally!

And, thinking the rapture is post trib, well, I've never met anyone who thinks Post-Trib Rapture, who can also read all the prophecies Jesus gave as though they will really happen.

I've learned just to start by asking them about the sheep/goats judgment, and none are able to accept it as is. Not one!

And that's sad!

Much love!

 

[ewq1938]

Naturally!

And, thinking the rapture is post trib, well, I've never met anyone who thinks Post-Trib Rapture, who can also read all the prophecies Jesus gave as though they will really happen.

I've learned just to start by asking them about the sheep/goats judgment, and none are able to accept it as is. Not one!

And that's sad!

Only sad because it isn't true.

 

[BlessedPeace]

The scriptures disagree with your disagreement. This is a case of belief VS. scripture.

I disagree that Scripture does not support my understanding.

 

[marks]

Only sad because it isn't true.

I run into this all the time.

Much love!

 

[ewq1938]

I run into this all the time.

Much love!

You did not even challenge when I showed how the GWTJ is not held upon the Earth which proves the Matthew 25 coming is not a coming from heaven to Earth (known as the second coming) but is a different coming from Earth to the GWTJ and LOF punishment place.

 

[marks]

You did not even challenge when I showed how the GWTJ is not held upon the Earth which proves the Matthew 25 coming is not a coming from heaven to Earth (known as the second coming) but is a different coming from Earth to the GWTJ and LOF punishment place.

You have an argument of why we shouldn't believe Jesus' prophecies in the way He gave them.

I know the Great White Throne Judgment does not happen on the the earth, while the judgment of the nations does.

This is a demonstration of my post:

Naturally!

And, thinking the rapture is post trib, well, I've never met anyone who thinks Post-Trib Rapture, who can also read all the prophecies Jesus gave as though they will really happen.

I've learned just to start by asking them about the sheep/goats judgment, and none are able to accept it as is. Not one!

And that's sad!

Much love!

You are doing exactly what I'm talking about here. You've concluded the judgment of the nations is the same as the GWTJ, and so you disbelieve the statements Jesus gave in His prophecy, thinking they should be understood to be saying something different than what Jesus said.

Much love!