Davy
Well-Known Member
My Bible questions are EASY to answer, for the serious and truthful Bible student.
But you have made NO ATTEMPT, which reveals to us here what about your Biblical literacy??
It Must Be Absolutely Terrifying To Be A Post-Tribulation Believer
- Thread starter Paul2
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
But you have made NO ATTEMPT, which reveals to us here what about your Biblical literacy??
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
A post trib Second Coming would also make His life pointless.
A post Cross first coming would mean He only showed up as a resurrected body, and would have never been physically on the Cross.
Jesus came to earth pre-ministry as a baby. He was on the earth prior to being baptized.
His 12 disciples were chosen while He was starting that earthly ministry.
Jesus will set His feet down on the mount of Olives at the 6th Seal prior to the Trumpets and Thunders. Jesus will have 144k chosen disciples on earth during the Trumpets and Thunders. And no one knows when that will be, nor the length of the Trumpets and Thunders.
Armageddon is a planned event 4 days after the 42 months end. The 2 witnesses are killed as planned at the end of that 42 months. They plan on being dead 3.5 days. They will be resurrected. The battle of Armageddon will happen by 5pm on that day. The 7 vials are poured out during those 3.5 days the 2 witnesses are laying there dead. Revelation is clear on the timing of the 42 months and 3.5 days. Armageddon is not a thief in the night moment that takes the earth by surprise.
The 7th Trumpet is not a thief in the night moment that takes the world by surprise. The only thief in the night moment that changes heaven and earth per 2 Peter 3 is the opening of the 6th Seal.
Jesus is on the earth to baptize everything in fire. The first coming was physical and took place on the earth. The Second Coming is physical and takes place on the earth. The first coming, Jesus was given 12 firstfruits to follow Him wherever He went. The Second Coming, Jesus will have 144k firstfruits that follow Him wherever He goes.
It is spelled out in Scripture exactly what will happen. Not sure why everyone sees the need to change everything to fit their own expectations? Those expectations that contradict other Scripture in order for them to work themselves out. Like the expectation that Jesus will not sit on an earthly throne as King. Had those people in 50 BC had the same expectation of the Messiah, they would have declared the Messiah was spiritually there already and no need for Jesus to physically come to earth. The Word was already in Heaven with the Father being the Messiah from afar. No need to physically come as that was already being fulfilled.
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
Because to be post trib means you rejected every opportunity to be saved from sin and death symbolically.
Obviously you have no choice in when God removes you from Adam's dead corruptible flesh.
Those standing on the earth after the tribulation will either take the mark or chop their head off. I doubt at that point it will be that terrifying to decide to chop your head off. Or there won't be a choice at all. You all will go through the winepress of God's wrath to the LOF. The whole point is to be removed from Adam's dead corruptible flesh, not to see how much tribulation you can endure before that happens. If you want tribulation, move to Pakistan or some country who martyrs people who take a stand for Jesus Christ. That is where the tribulation is, not a point in time where God is doing the removal of souls from this body of death.
Jacob's trouble is not about being a redeemed remnant. Jacob's trouble is about all those who are not redeemed and cast alive into the LOF.
People on all sides of the issue can only see some satanic empire being set up and a wicked dictator telling people what to do. That is not the time of Jacob's trouble at all. The time of Jacob's trouble known as the GT, is when Jesus is physically on earth as the King, getting rid of all the dead into the LOF, while a remnant are redeemed and wait on the sea of glass until the Millennium starts. No humans are physically left on earth, except Jeaus and the 144k. The Second Coming is called the final harvest, because every last soul on earth will be removed, as in a harvest, from Adam's dead physical body.
Only thousands will be left, like in every harvest, called the gleanings. The church is not the last to be harvested. The church was removed when Jesus was coming to the earth. And Jesus is doing the harvest using the angels. It is not Satan and some dictator. The 42 months given to Satan is after the final harvest. Satan only gets the leftovers, the gleanings, because some of those gleanings will decide to chop off their heads, instead of choosing the mark.
Revelation 16, in the middle of the bowl judgements, Christ says this,
15 “Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame.”
16 And they gathered them together to the place called in Hebrew, [h]Armageddon.
v15, Christ is saying He will come as a thief, and you are blessed if you are waiting and watching for His return, which at this point in time, has not yet occurred.
That same coming as a thief, people have attributed to a pre trib rapture. But there is no such thing.
Jesus describes His second coming as one that will surprise people, that He returns at a time when people think not.
The Seven Bowls
1 Then I heard a loud voice from the temple saying to the seven angels, “Go and pour out the [a]bowls of the wrath of God on the earth.”First Bowl: Loathsome Sores
2 So the first went and poured out his bowl upon the earth, and a [b]foul and loathsome sore came upon the men who had the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image.Second Bowl: The Sea Turns to Blood
3 Then the second angel poured out his bowl on the sea, and it became blood as of a dead man; and every living creature in the sea died.Third Bowl: The Waters Turn to Blood
4 Then the third angel poured out his bowl on the rivers and springs of water, and they became blood. 5 And I heard the angel of the waters saying:“You are righteous, [c]O Lord,
The One who is and who [d]was and who is to be,
Because You have judged these things.
6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets,
And You have given them blood to drink.
[e]For it is their just due.”
7 And I heard [f]another from the altar saying, “Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are Your judgments.”
Fourth Bowl: Men Are Scorched
8 Then the fourth angel poured out his bowl on the sun, and power was given to him to scorch men with fire. 9 And men were scorched with great heat, and they blasphemed the name of God who has power over these plagues; and they did not repent and give Him glory.Fifth Bowl: Darkness and Pain
10 Then the fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and his kingdom became full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues because of the pain. 11 They blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and did not repent of their deeds.Sixth Bowl: Euphrates Dried Up
12 Then the sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up, so that the way of the kings from the east might be prepared. 13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings [g]of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.15 “Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame.”
16 And they gathered them together to the place called in Hebrew, [h]Armageddon.
Seventh Bowl: The Earth Utterly Shaken
17 Then the seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and a loud voice came out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, “It is done!” 18 And there were noises and thunderings and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such a mighty and great earthquake as had not occurred since men were on the earth. 19 Now the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell. And great Babylon was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath. 20 Then every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. 21 And great hail from heaven fell upon men, each hailstone about the weight of a talent. Men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail, since that plague was exceedingly great.- 1 Thessalonians 5:2
For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations - 1 Thessalonians 5:4
But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations - 2 Peter 3:10
The Day of the Lord
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations - Revelation 3:3
Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations - Revelation 16:15
“Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame.”
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
In the days of Christ and before 'betrothed' means we already are married to the LORD prior to the ceremonial actuation.
The Purchase Price for the Bride has already been paid, with HIS Blood = Acts 20:28
Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.
The Marriage Cup is the New Covenant that was passed from the Groom to His Bride Matthew ch26
And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, blessed and broke it, and gave it to the disciples and said, “Take, eat; this is My body.”
Then He took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you.
For this is My blood of the New Covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
The Bride of Christ is the Church = Gospel of John and Ephesians
Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, 26that He might [g]sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word, 27that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish. 28So husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies; he who loves his wife loves himself. 29For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as the Lord does the church. 30For we are members of His body, [h]of His flesh and of His bones. 31“For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” 32This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church. 33Nevertheless let each one of you in particular so love his own wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Davy
Well-Known Member
That is absolutely... CORRECT!
On the 6th Vial of Rev.16:15, Lord Jesus is STILL WARNING His Church that He comes "as a thief". That means His coming to gather His Church has still not happened yet at that point, not even on that 6th Vial timing.
One of the time markers Lord Jesus put in that verse for us is that "as a thief" time marker, because it is the "day of the Lord" time marker, the last day of this present world...
2 Peter 3:10-12
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
KJV
Apostle Paul covered that "day of the Lord" coming "as a thief in the night" also in 1 Thessalonians 5, right after he had covered the event of Christ's coming and gathering of His Church. Apostle Paul linked a "sudden destruction" event upon the wicked on that "day of the Lord", which is the SAME idea that Apostle Peter taught above about God's consuming fire on the last day of this world.
And what is especially SAD, is that Apostle Peter, Apostle Paul, and our Lord Jesus, were all pulling from the Old Testament prophets about that day of sudden destruction coming upon the earth at an instant, as a surprise, "as a thief in the night" on the "day of the Lord". So truly... the faithful Bible student should have quickly understood what Lord Jesus and His Apostles were pointing to about that "as a thief" idea.
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
Nope
It clearly says all take the mark.
There is no running from cave to cave to escape the AC.
All believers are martyred.
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
are you referring to the gathering in rev 14?
If so, that is not the rapture of the church
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
Most of us know the postrib talking points.
Also know the postribbers omissions.
Yawn
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
I keep hearing that mess about secret rapture.
But only from postribbers projecting it onto other postribbers.
Very strange.
But keeps them smiling over more made up talking points.
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
Jesus said "pray that you may be counted worthy to escape the things about to come upon the Earth and to stand before the son of man"
post trib rapture adherents pray that?....nope.
In their minds, Jesus was mistaken.
post trib rapture adherents pray that?....nope.
In their minds, Jesus was mistaken.
Last edited:
Isaiah 57
1 The righteous perishes,
And no man takes it to heart;
Merciful men are taken away,
While no one considers
That the righteous is taken away from [a]evil.
2 He shall enter into peace;
They shall rest in their beds,
Each one walking in his uprightness.
I would absolutely love to pass away as in die in peace to not see that evil day, the Lord taking me away to spare me that grief.
Why though does Christ tells them about their flight to escape??
If they are already raptured?
9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. 10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.
23 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand.
26 “Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
28 For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
V28 does not describe the raptured church, it is the bodies of all the dead killed by the LORD at His return.
v28 is the supper of the Great God where all the birds under heaven gather to eat the dead.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Revelation 19
KING OF KINGS AND
LORD OF LORDS.
19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. 20 Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21 And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.
If they are already raptured?
9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. 10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.
The Great Tribulation
15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the [c]elect’s sake those days will be shortened.23 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand.
26 “Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
28 For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
V28 does not describe the raptured church, it is the bodies of all the dead killed by the LORD at His return.
v28 is the supper of the Great God where all the birds under heaven gather to eat the dead.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Revelation 19
Christ on a White Horse
11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He [e]had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in [f]fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a [g]sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:KING OF KINGS AND
LORD OF LORDS.
The Beast and His Armies Defeated
17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, “Come and gather together for the [h]supper of the great God, 18 that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, [i]free and slave, both small and great.”19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. 20 Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21 And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.
This is the second coming of Christ where God brings with Jesus all the saints who had died. That is He returns with their spirits, not their bodies, they are then resurrected v16 and the unbelieving world experiences executed judgement on them all.
The Comfort of Christ’s Coming
13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen [b]asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who [c]sleep in Jesus.15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are [d]asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.
Jude
14 Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, 15 to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.”
Matthew 26:64
Jesus said to him, “It is as you said. Nevertheless, I say to you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.”
Matthew 24:30
Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
1 Thessalonians 4:17
Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
Revelation 1:7
Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.
Last edited:
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
The bible says every man, woman, and child takes the mark.
To refuse is to die.
The rapture only fits pretrib.
One means of escape is to perish, as in bodily die but still be alive spiritually, you still don't see that as a viable option to not see evil days or a multitude of evil days yet to come.
It is however the scripture, and highly accurate in the history of the world.
"The righteous perishes,
And no man takes it to heart;"
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
Read Revelation 14
Jesus comes with a sickle in his hand sitting on a cloud , never touches earth, and that is A rapture right before the wrath of God so the second coming on white horses and the Rapture of the Dead in Christ is not Revelation 14
so there are three comings right there
the first two he doesn't touch Earth but the last one he comes with his Saints on white horses only pre-trib rapture fits.
Similar threads
