Interesting that the Bible is "the Word of God", unless someone quotes a translation you disagree with.

[ElieG12]

St. SteVen said:
Even biblical doctrines can be in contradiction to each other.

Any doctrine that is presented with biblical support is a biblical doctrine, whether you agree with it, or not.
...

No, it's not.

For a doctrine to be biblical, it must have sufficient biblical support and be demonstrated without a doubt. Furthermore, it cannot contradict any fundamental teaching of Christ or that his followers have clearly expressed in their inspired writings.

 

[St. SteVen]

No, it's not.

For a doctrine to be biblical, it must have sufficient biblical support and be demonstrated without a doubt. Furthermore, it cannot contradict any fundamental teaching of Christ or that his followers have clearly expressed in their inspired writings.

Both Catholics and Protestants have biblical doctrine for their beliefs concerning baptism, which differ radically.
Which one is right?

 

[ElieG12]

The lack of divine direction of the religious leaders of Christendom has confused them about what it means for the Scriptures to be inspired by holy spirit. They do not understand, much less their followers, that when God made everything to be registered in the Bible, he could not have given his worshipers a source that was contradictory or full of confusing and incomprehensible beliefs that each one had to guess on his own, choosing some parts and rejecting others. That's not how the things of God work ... nor what Jesus taught about the Scriptures.

 

[St. SteVen]

The lack of divine direction of the religious leaders of Christendom has confused them about what it means for the Scriptures to be inspired by holy spirit. They do not understand, much less their followers, that when God made everything to be registered in the Bible, he could not have given his worshipers a source that was contradictory or full of confusing and incomprehensible beliefs that each one had to guess on his own, choosing some parts and rejecting others. That's not how the things of God work ... nor what Jesus taught about the Scriptures.

Where would faith be if everything was as cut and dried as you would like it to be?

Do you have any idea about where the Bible came from? Why did the Bible translators have to use Textual Criticism?
Which of the three do you align with? (all 3 in contradiction)

Majority Text vs. Critical Text vs. Textus Receptus – Textual Criticism 101​

Majority Text vs. Critical Text vs. Textus Receptus - Textual Criticism 101 - Berean Patriot

 

[ElieG12]

...
Do you have any idea about where the Bible came from? ...

Do you?

2 Tim. 3:16 All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, 17 so that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.

Jesus said "the scripture cannot be nullified" (John 10:35). Do you know what that means?

John 17:17 Sanctify them by means of the truth; your word is truth.

Acts 15:16 (...) it was necessary for the scripture to be fulfilled that the holy spirit spoke prophetically through David (...)

2 Pet. 1:19 So we have the prophetic word made more sure, and you are doing well in paying attention to it as to a lamp shining in a dark place (until day dawns and a daystar rises) in your hearts. 20 For you know this first, that no prophecy of Scripture springs from any private interpretation. 21 For prophecy was at no time brought by man’s will, but men spoke from God as they were moved by holy spirit.

 

[St. SteVen]

The lack of divine direction of the religious leaders of Christendom has confused them about what it means for the Scriptures to be inspired by holy spirit.

Where is Mark 15:28 ???
Why is it missing?

Mark 15:27-29 NIV
27 They crucified two rebels with him, one on his right and one on his left.
[28] [a]
29 Those who passed by hurled insults at him, shaking their heads and saying,
“So! You who are going to destroy the temple and build it in three days,

Footnote​

Some manuscripts include here words similar to Luke 22:37.

 

[St. SteVen]

Do you?

2 Tim. 3:16 All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, 17 so that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.

Our Bible was canonized in the 4th century. What was the Bible when 2 Tim. 3:16 was written?

Jesus said "the scripture cannot be nullified" (John 10:35). Do you know what that means?

John 17:17 ) Sanctify them by means of the truth; your word is truth.

Jesus was making a direct reference to Psalm 82:6. When was that written?
When was the gospel of John written. What was scripture when it was written?

 

[ElieG12]

You are lost ... You don't know what the Scriptures are. They are the ones that were recorded under inspiration. Not what Catholics choose, not what non-Christians want to add, not what anyone left over after taking out what he doesn't like, etc. To know what is Scriptures and what is not, you should study with someone to teach you.

 

[St. SteVen]

You are lost ...

Who are you to judge? (lost/saved)

You don't know what the Scriptures are. They are the ones that were recorded under inspiration.

I thought you were referring to an English translation of the Bible.

Not what Catholics choose, not what non-Christians want to add,

Bashing Catholics?
What do "non-Christians want to add" ???

To know what is Scriptures and what is not, you should study with someone to teach you.

I'm currently recovering from being like what you consider a Christian.

 

[ElieG12]

Again: Scriptures are not something men decide ...

They are the ones God inspired to be recorded to our knowledge. You need to discern the diference between both.

Until next time.

 

[St. SteVen]

They are the ones God inspired to be recorded to our knowledge. You need to discern the diference between both.

If that was true, there would have been no need for textual criticism in Bible translation.
Textual Criticism = our best guess as to what it actually said = we don't know what it actually said
Which means horseshoes, hand grenades, and Bible translation are all in the same boat.

All this because, the original manuscripts DO NOT EXIST. The manuscript copies, of copies, of copies,
of ccpies and fragments that we do have, differ 6 to 10 times per chapter in the New Testament.

What is Textual Criticism?​

Here is an excellent definition of Textual Criticism from Dan Wallace,
who is one of the most respected Textual Critics in the world today.

Textual Criticism is:

The study of the copies of a written document whose original (the autograph) is unknown or non-existent, for the primary purpose of determining the exact wording of the original.
Source.

Here is the most original copy, of a copy, of a copy... of the New testament that we have,
A fragment of the Gospel of John.

 

[ElieG12]

Who are you to judge? (lost/saved)
...

Some needed clarification: I didn't mean "lost" in that sense. I meant "lost" about what the inspired Scriptures are. I don't think anyone is lost or saved (in the other sense) at this very moment; since thereis still some time left before the great tribulation.

Have a good one.

 

[St. SteVen]

I don't think anyone is lost or saved (in the other sense) at this very moment; since thereis still some time left before the great tribulation.

Sounds like some wacky doctrine to me.
I thought you had some concerns about unbiblical doctrine?
Do you have no assurance of your salvation?
What does the Tribulation have to do with salvation?

BTW: you don't have to answer my posts today, or ever.

 

[face2face]

Doctrine is man-made, not God-made.
Doctrine and beliefs are not scripture, they are a response to scripture.
Even biblical doctrines can be in contradiction to each other.
And Bible translations can differ vastly.

On that basis, would you surrender your beliefs for doctrinal unity?

Boy you spew out some rot.
My messages in response to your ignorance is not for you to answer but for the benefit of others reading your drivel.
Take the core Doctrine of God being One - now while I believe unitarians understand the oneness of God more completely - of course, the trinitarians proclaim Oneness also but do so extra-biblically.

So the doctrine of God being One is God Made not man made (I could argue the complexity seen in the formula of the trinity is man-made) but the true understanding of God being One is a Bible / God truth.

F2F

 

[Gottservant]

Doctrine is man-made, not God-made.
Doctrine and beliefs are not scripture, they are a response to scripture.
Even biblical doctrines can be in contradiction to each other.
And Bible translations can differ vastly.

On that basis, would you surrender your beliefs for doctrinal unity?

That's not fair! God gives me His Gospel, because He loves me. No believer is above what God can give.

What does the Bible say "Let every man be a liar, but God be true"

Maybe you don't mean to, but you are implying that my doctrine on its own is not justified - yet I have works (prayer, tithing, intercession) that establish my doctrine is justified. If I had no doctrine that was justified by works, even then I would complain "I need to be given time to establish my doctrine". You see you are not really helping by distinguishing between my faith and my works?

 

[Hobie]

What I find troubling is the belief some Christians have that the Bible was written by people with agendas and doesn't always tell the truth. The Bible always tells the truth. I am one who believes we don't have to agree with all of Paul's opinions - opinions aren't lies - but the Bible never lies.

How do you read this verse...
Acts 12:4
And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people.

Was that true, or did men put in there own ideas...

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
Doctrine is man-made, not God-made.
Doctrine and beliefs are not scripture, they are a response to scripture.
Even biblical doctrines can be in contradiction to each other.
And Bible translations can differ vastly.

On that basis, would you surrender your beliefs for doctrinal unity?

That's not fair! God gives me His Gospel, because He loves me. No believer is above what God can give.

What does the Bible say "Let every man be a liar, but God be true"

I think you misunderstood the OP.
I was asking you if you would be willing to let a religious institution TELL you what you can and cannot believe.
Would you surrender what God told you, in order to comply with a church?

Maybe you don't mean to, but you are implying that my doctrine on its own is not justified - yet I have works (prayer, tithing, intercession) that establish my doctrine is justified. If I had no doctrine that was justified by works, even then I would complain "I need to be given time to establish my doctrine". You see you are not really helping by distinguishing between my faith and my works?

No, I'm saying the opposite.

 

[Bob Estey]

How do you read this verse...
Acts 12:4
And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people.

Was that true, or did men put in there own ideas...

Without reading the rest of the chapter, I would assume it's true.

 

[St. SteVen]

Without reading the rest of the chapter, I would assume it's true.

Perhaps you misunderstood the question, Bob.
Why is the pagan holiday word "Easter" in that verse?
Who put that there?
The NT Greek reads pascha, which translates Passover.
Why does "the inspired Word of God" say Easter instead?

Acts 12:4
And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions
of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people.

@Bob Estey

 

[St. SteVen]

Perhaps you misunderstood the question, Bob.
Why is the pagan holiday word "Easter" in that verse?
Who put that there?
The NT Greek reads pascha, which translates Passover.
Why does "the inspired Word of God" say Easter instead?

Acts 12:4
And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions
of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people.

Compare the New International Version translation below.

Acts 12:4 NIV
After arresting him, he put him in prison, handing him over to be guarded by four squads
of four soldiers each. Herod intended to bring him out for public trial after the Passover.


@Bob Estey