A Question for Jehovah's Witnesses

[marks]

Excellent verse Marks!

Now compare to this and explain how was sin represented in Jesus Christ

We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. Romans 6:9

Enjoy
F2F

I'm not finding your posts responsive, so this isn't so interesting.

Much love!

 

[marks]

It's no coindence that our discussion has led us to the true satan and devil of the Bible...there is something ironic about how the Word of God has taken us from Matthew 4 (Christ's Temptations) to the Book of Hebrew and Romans where nothing is mentioned of a rebel angel. But what is mentioned is something far more close to home!

@marks @quietthinker @MatthewG

You've not given a real response to Matthew. But then, Matthew describes a being who left Jesus as angels came to Jesus, and you simply claim that's not so. But that's not much of an answer. It's too shallow to be interesting conversation.

And now you announce that we've just moved on.

Well.

Much love!

 

[marks]

It's no coindence that our discussion has led us to the true satan and devil of the Bible...there is something ironic about how the Word of God has taken us from Matthew 4 (Christ's Temptations) to the Book of Hebrew and Romans where nothing is mentioned of a rebel angel. But what is mentioned is something far more close to home!

@marks @quietthinker @MatthewG

4 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.
3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,
6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
11 Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.

You said you believed this was accurate.

But the way you talk I don't think that's true. This tells us of a being who came to Jesus, interacted with Him, then left. But you appear to believe that no such being exists, much less had any interactions with Jesus.

And you've not addressed this clear discrepancy. Either Matthew gave an accurate account or not. If his account is accurate, well, that's what he wrote.

Much love!

 

[face2face]

I'm not finding your posts responsive, so this isn't so interesting.

Much love!

I understand these a difficult verses which lead you to unfamiliar territory. Christ didn't his many times to those who thought understood.

F2F.

 

[face2face]

You've not given a real response to Matthew. But then, Matthew describes a being who left Jesus as angels came to Jesus, and you simply claim that's not so. But that's not much of an answer. It's too shallow to be interesting conversation.

And now you announce that we've just moved on.

Well.

Much love!

Marks,

The conversation went where you did not want it go. That which falsely accused Jesus left him for the moment and he was comforted. Maybe you have experienced a similar temptation?

F2F

 

[marks]

I understand these a difficult verses which lead you to unfamiliar territory. Christ didn't his many times to those who thought understood.

F2F.

That's not it.

I've given you a passage of Scripture which refutes your position, and you seem unwilling to discuss it.

Much love!

 

[face2face]

4 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.
3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,
6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
11 Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.

You said you believed this was accurate.

But the way you talk I don't think that's true. This tells us of a being who came to Jesus, interacted with Him, then left. But you appear to believe that no such being exists, much less had any interactions with Jesus.

And you've not addressed this clear discrepancy. Either Matthew gave an accurate account or not. If his account is accurate, well, that's what he wrote.

Much love!

Accurate.
The temptations came to and end having overcome them with His Fathers Word.
Whether external or internal temptation you cannot prove it was a supernatural rebel angel. It's only going to be your forced notions.
Am I right?
F2F

 

[marks]

Marks,

The conversation went where you did not want it go. That which falsely accused Jesus left him for the moment and he was comforted. Maybe you have experienced a similar temptation?

F2F

I started at a certain passage, and it seems you really are working now to avoid it. Is that because it does in fact so plainly refute your position?

Matthew didn't say some thought showed up.

I've quoted the passages, I've pointed to the very words which speak the very thing I'm saying. Do you want to discuss the passage, or just deny that it means the simple thing it describes?

Much love!

 

[face2face]

That's not it.

I've given you a passage of Scripture which refutes your position, and you seem unwilling to discuss it.

Much love!

You were shown two passages which revealed how sin was represented in Jesus and you ran for cover. If you believe Jesus was tempted by a rebel angel explain away!
Simply posting Matt 4 proves nothing.
F2F

 

[marks]

The temptations came to and end having overcome them with His Fathers Word.
Whether external or internal temptation you cannot prove the was a supernatural rebel angel. It's only going to be your forced notions.

To the same extent that you cannot prove that Jesus was a person on the scene either. The tempter came to him. Who came to whom? How is this not simply a denial of the plain saying of the passage?

Much love!

 

[marks]

and you ran for cover.

I told you, you start talking this way, I'm done. You can stop now, and we can go on, or not, and we don't, it's up to you.

Much love!

 

[face2face]

I started at a certain passage, and it seems you really are working now to avoid it. Is that because it does in fact so plainly refute your position?

Matthew didn't say some thought showed up.

I've quoted the passages, I've pointed to the very words which speak the very thing I'm saying. Do you want to discuss the passage, or just deny that it means the simple thing it describes?

Much love!

So what you are saying is Jesus wasn't tempted. A temptation must take place in the mind.....maybe your idea of temptation is not what is written of the Lord?

For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin. Heb 4:15

I think I know.where you are going with this and it's totally false

F2F

 

[face2face]

To the same extent that you cannot prove that Jesus was a person on the scene either. The tempter came to him. Who came to whom? How is this not simply a denial of the plain saying of the passage?

Much love!

So you are not wiling to prove either way?
I've explained the temptation was internal by necessity. Whether the ideas are presented externally matters not! Jesus internalised these matters and resisted them.
I think we believe in a different Jesus....you cannot relate to yours whereas mine can sympathise with me and my struggles.
Shame really Mark's.
F2F

 

[marks]

Shame really Mark's.

I get it. Better to drive me away then to engage over the Scriptures. Well, that's too bad! But I have no interest in that sort of talk.

Much love!

 

[face2face]

I get it. Better to drive me away then to engage over the Scriptures. Well, that's too bad! But I have no interest in that sort of talk.

Much love!

Marks, you resist every time you're shown something unfamiliar to you. You won't talk to Christ's nature...you won't talk on anything outside the preconceived notions which fill your mind. I don't drive you away you put up barriers to learning truth.

And when the devil had ended every temptation, he departed from him until an opportune time Matt 4

The opportune time usually when Jesus was at his physcial weakness. When he was in distress his nature would tempt him strongly. It's interesting the Word once again personifies human nature as a false accuser.

I showed this to you in Hebrews 2:14 and how death had dominion over Christ in his life.

If you wanted to enter the Word we could have these discussions but you won't...if the subject impinges on your beliefs you run.

F2F

 

[marks]

Marks, you resist every time you're shown something unfamiliar to you.

That's nonsense, and if you want to prove it to yourself, just change your tone, your manner of speech. But I've been reading your posts to others, and I'm sorry but I don't have a lot of confidence in that.

I've been studying Scripture a long time, discussing it on forums a long time. I'm not here to talk about myself. You claim, I'm just resisting the unfamiliar. If that works for you, well, you choose what to think.

Much love!

 

[face2face]

That's nonsense, and if you want to prove it to yourself, just change your tone, your manner of speech. But I've been reading your posts to others, and I'm sorry but I don't have a lot of confidence in that.

I've been studying Scripture a long time, discussing it on forums a long time. I'm not here to talk about myself. You claim, I'm just resisting the unfamiliar. If that works for you, well, you choose what to think.

Much love!

I provided you with 4 options of who and what the tempter could be. I've explained my position and belief and while I've tried to guide you into Hebrews, Romans and Corinthians to what end?

F2F

 

[Jack]

Satan LOVES it when people don't believe he exists! Even while he's devouring people.

1 Peter 5
8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.
9 Resist him, steadfast in the faith,

Satan's ministers keep telling us he doesn't exist.

 

[marks]

Satan LOVES it when people don't believe he exists! Even while he's devouring people.

1 Peter 5
8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.
9 Resist him, steadfast in the faith,

Satan's ministers keep telling us he doesn't exist.

Yes, so this either is or isn't true. This passage isn't speaking of an internal voice or something like that, "seeking whom he may devour" includes whomever may be available.

I just don't see how to deny the existance of the devil unless you are willing to ignore the plain sayings of any number of Scriptures.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Hebrews 2:14-15
(14) Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
(15) And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

John 10:17-18
(17) Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
(18) No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Jesus was not subject to the bondage of fear of death.

Jesus shared in flesh and blood, but was not under the condemnation of death as though He were a sinner like us. He was like us, except without sin.

Much love!