...

[Jack]

Satan LOVES Universalism!

Matthew 25
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 20
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

 

[Emily Nghiem]

I don't know what you are talking about.I do not believe that everyone will be saved. And I dont know why you brought up son of Sam. If he asked for forgiveness, and is following Christ, his salvation is assured.
I was saying to Harold, who believes that everyone will be saved, that, if that were true, there is no need to evangelize.
We are commanded to evangelize from Christ Himself (Go ye therefore...) but He wouldn't even have to say that if everyone is going to be saved.

We will be saved if we come to Christ. God is not going to save everyone--only those who come to Him.

no, there is still need to evangelize in order to fulfill that process.

If everyone has to learn reading writing and math in order to pass,
and everyone is going to pass, that means even more teaching is needed to make sure everyone gets through those steps and stages involved in learning and passing.


Just because everyone is going to get to eat doesn't mean you can
quit cooking. It means everyone has to help with cooking and cleaning
in order for everyone to get to eat!

 

[Emily Nghiem]

I don't know what you are talking about.I do not believe that everyone will be saved. And I dont know why you brought up son of Sam. If he asked for forgiveness, and is following Christ, his salvation is assured.
I was saying to Harold, who believes that everyone will be saved, that, if that were true, there is no need to evangelize.
We are commanded to evangelize from Christ Himself (Go ye therefore...) but He wouldn't even have to say that if everyone is going to be saved.

We will be saved if we come to Christ. God is not going to save everyone--only those who come to Him.

By the way, the flip side of your argument
is like the people who argue that if they are never going to agree to accept Jesus
and thus "won't get into heaven anyway" they might as well do whatever they
like in this life, because they aren't going to heaven anyway. If they are bound for hell, might
as well enjoy life like a hedonist. Do all the things you want without fear of consequences because either way, doing right or wrong, giving up pleasure trying to be good and considerate of others "doesn't matter" if you're going to hell anyway for refusing Jesus.

That's like the people who are already in prison for life and will die there.
What difference does it make if they kill someone else like an inmate or a guard.

It makes more sense to say there are still consequences *proportional* to one's actions
If people are going to hell anyway, then it doesn't matter how they act toward others.

But if we have to make good on our commitments and words, and resolve any conflicts or injuries we caused to others *as part of* the process of reconciling man with God, then the more charity and positive interactions we invest in the better. And the less damaging things we say and do, the less work it takes to fulfill the healing and restoration work in Christ Jesus.

We will all still seek resolution in Christ.

The motivation for evangelizing and teaching and helping is to make that process come about faster and smoother.

Have you ever tutored a student who wanted to give up and just quit trying at all in school?

The first step is to establish confidence they can finish school, then show the best way to get the work done with the least stress and problems.

We agree on the goal first, then we can take the steps to achieve that goal.
It still takes all the same teaching and "evangelizing"
But it's easier to stay focused when we agree on the plan and purpose to succeed not fail.

 

[Cassandra]

I still don't agree--we have to come to Christ. Those who don't will be lost. We are to evangelize to help save the world by telling them about Jesus. If everyone is going to be saved anyway, there is no need to.
thank you for your time.

 

[Emily Nghiem]

I still don't agree--we have to come to Christ. Those who don't will be lost. We are to evangelize to help save the world by telling them about Jesus. If everyone is going to be saved anyway, there is no need to.
thank you for your time.

Yes we have to come to Christ and we have to agree to receive forgiveness correction healing etc.
None of that precludes universal inclusion.
We just can't know what God is going to do after we physically die.

We already have the concept of "generational sins" of the fathers revisited on the sons to the fourth and Fifth generations. So some of the sins left after death can be passed on to future generations by the same patterns repeating due to NEW sins of Unforgiveness. If we do not forgive past sins, that's what causes people to repeat the same conditions.

This continue until the generations agree to put this aside and receive the Lord.
Then the Lord asserts jurisdiction over governing the process of brining sins to justice

You do not have to agree because none of this is proven what will happen with God's judgment day.

But generally speaking we already see the pattern:
1. Those who continue to repeat sins and abuses create MORE debts and damages from wrongful trespass or imposition and injury causes to others. So more mess to resolve renounce and recover from including restitution where owed between neighbors
2. Those of us who commit to establishing Jesus Authority as Justice have more work to do to teach people why we chose the path of Restorative Justice that brings healing and new life in Christ Jesus. Rather than the path of destruction and death by Retributive Justice and unforgiveness
3. And each person is held to account to what we judged by, what we said and committed to enforce, so it's proportional. Just because the process of Restorative Justice is universal doesn't mean each person isn't accountable for their share of words and actions contributing to either justice or injustice.
Each person is held accountable and has consequences proportional to the degree of damage done to other neighbors seeking correction for those wrongs.

4. So the burdens are made lighter by more of us agreeing to receive and work together in Christ for God's plans will and purpose

The longer people refuse and repeat conflicts and escalate messes,
that's just more work that all humanity has to manage.

Like the more we keep polluting oceans and rivers, the more we have to clean up and the longer it takes to restore natural health.

The more trees that get cut down for wood, the more trees need to be replaced.

The Sooner all humanity *agrees* to receive Jesus the sooner we can unite and reconcile with God's will.

Universal inclusion does not mean people don't have to choose and agree


It just means Gods love and truth is so compelling and perfect
It will lead to all people eventually agreeing and wanting that.

 

[Emily Nghiem]

I still don't agree--we have to come to Christ. Those who don't will be lost. We are to evangelize to help save the world by telling them about Jesus. If everyone is going to be saved anyway, there is no need to.
thank you for your time.

For everyone to be saved that means everyone eventually has to chose to submit to God's will and love. It doesn't mean it will magically happen.
God cannot force anyone to agree to forgive.
We are human and won't forgive unless we agree to ask for that.

So it's always going to depend on each person agreeing by free will

@Cassandra Where are you getting this untrue assumption that
universal salvation means people don't have to agree to receive Jesus?

You keep stating this when that's not what I mean or said.

Why are you adding that false assertion which isn't anywhere in what I have said?
Where did you get that idea?

Since I also object to that as you do,then we agree on that point.
People still need to agree to receive Jesus

Where we disagree: you do not believe that all people will eventually make the choice you did to receive Jesus.

Your faith is different from where mine is.

I believe all people will have to make that same choice,
and it may take a longer process, but eventually people will FEEL there is no other choice.

The same way you and I agreed to receive and believe in Jesus,
Other people have their path and process to get to that realization and acceptance.

Why don't you have faith?
What have you seen cause rejection you don't believe God can overcome?

 

[Jack]

I still don't agree--we have to come to Christ. Those who don't will be lost. We are to evangelize to help save the world by telling them about Jesus. If everyone is going to be saved anyway, there is no need to.
thank you for your time.

Amen! Universalism is a Satanic hoax to lead people to Hell fire!

 

[Emily Nghiem]

@Cassandra
1. I AGREE with you, we are all in agreement here, that Salvation requires us agreeing to receive and know God through Christ

Clearly, that isn't the conflict here, since you and I both agree on this.

The conflict is you are somehow "associating or assuming" that by "universal salvation"
people "skip" this step.

Why is that?

If you READ my messages, I have NOT AND NEVER said that!

But you keep bringing up this point as "the reason for your objection."

I've run into this before.

When I posted that people could be cured of criminal illness using Spiritual healing and deliverance in Christ,
somehow people "accused me of wanting to free dangerous people on the streets instead of sending them to prison."

People like David Berkowitz can still be treated and cured AND STAY IN PRISON FOR LIFE.

But people were "assuming/making the leap" that I NEVER SAID.

That's happening here.

How can we discuss these two separate points
1. We AGREE people must choose and agree by free will to come to understand Jesus and God
2. This is separate from Universal Salvation which believes all SOULS will eventually agree to Step #1

What is making you assume that #2 prevents or skips #1?

That's one difference. But it doesn't make sense because I agree with you that #1 is key and can't be skipped.

 

[Emily Nghiem]

Amen! Universalism is a Satanic hoax to lead people to Hell fire!

Dear @Jack and @Cassandra
I think you are both talking about something else.
I've also run into and disagree with people teaching that
religions are the same and you can substitute something else for Jesus.

So whatever it is that you are objecting to,
I also object to that as false teaching
AND IS NOT WHAT I mean or believe in as Universal inclusion.

Even the Demons know Jesus authority.
This knowledge is Universal to all.

Only the DEMONS fear reject and refuse.

All the people I know want to stop suffering, so eventually all people submit
because we cannot bear the suffering. The demons don't care and feed/live off that fear.

But humans cannot tolerate and will plead to God for mercy.

Even my former atheist friend when plagued and attacked by demonic forces
was crying out for Mercy from God he doesn't really believe in and still doesn't get.

Only the demonic will keep refusing, and that's the evil that will be thrown into the Lake of Fire and burned away.

People are NOT the same as the demons or demonic forces that rebel refuse and reject.

So removing those means the people will be freed.

 

[Jack]

Dear @Jack and @Cassandra
I think you are both talking about something else.
I've also run into and disagree with people teaching that
religions are the same and you can substitute something else for Jesus.

So whatever it is that you are objecting to,
I also object to that as false teaching
AND IS NOT WHAT I mean or believe in as Universal inclusion.

Even the Demons know Jesus authority.
This knowledge is Universal to all.

Only the DEMONS fear reject and refuse.

All the people I know want to stop suffering, so eventually all people submit
because we cannot bear the suffering. The demons don't care and feed/live off that fear.

But humans cannot tolerate and will plead to God for mercy.

Even my former atheist friend when plagued and attacked by demonic forces
was crying out for Mercy from God he doesn't really believe in and still doesn't get.

Only the demonic will keep refusing, and that's the evil that will be thrown into the Lake of Fire and burned away.

People are NOT the same as the demons or demonic forces that rebel refuse and reject.

So removing those means the people will be freed.

Revelation 20:10
10 And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

 

[Emily Nghiem]

1 Corinthians 6
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,

All those ill conditions can be removed and the person healed.
These ill conditions are NOT sustainable and cannot prevail in the presence of God.

@Jack why are you assuming that "universal salvation" means tolerating or promoting these conditions?
For everyone to be saved from these conditions means to REMOVE them through Christ Jesus authority.

I found a ministry that is teaching this healing and deliverance process to everyone as Jesus healed people.
This ministry hosts free workshops Saturdays and Mondays to teach more people about receiving Jesus and healing.

So if we can use the internet now to have constant prayer for deliverance and healing,
why can't the whole world be reached and receive?

Who would be left who would refuse to receiving healing?
Only the demonic forces would reject that, and those will be cast out by Jesus and either transformed
if God wills the demons return to angels in heaven, or the evil will be burned in the Lake of Fire.

Removing all the demonic conditions means the people will be freed.
Either on earth or on heavenly realms.

Even Jesus descended into all realms so that souls can be saved through Him.
Why not unite in prayer for Jesus to govern over all and let JESUS CHRIST authority fulfill God's will?

 

[Emily Nghiem]

Revelation 20:10
10 And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

The Devil (opposite of God)
the BEAST/ANTICHRIST (opposite of Jesus Christ)
the FALSE PROPHET (opposite of Holy Spirit)

These three manifestations of Satan are NOT HUMAN.

Satan/Antichrist/False Prophet are spiritually collectively
the opposite of God/Jesus/HolySpirit which are not human.

So these demonic forces thrown into the Lake of Fire to be burned away
leave the people and souls to be FREED OF THEM. Forever and ever.

Only GOD'S WORD is eternal and sustains.

@Jack @Cassandra Are we in agreement that God trumps Satan,
Jesus Christ trumps Antichrist, and the Holy Spirit trumps False Prophecy?

 

[Jack]

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

The Devil (opposite of God)
the BEAST/ANTICHRIST (opposite of Jesus Christ)
the FALSE PROPHET (opposite of Holy Spirit)

These three manifestations of Satan are NOT HUMAN.

Satan/Antichrist/False Prophet are spiritually collectively
the opposite of God/Jesus/HolySpirit which are not human.

So these demonic forces thrown into the Lake of Fire to be burned away
leave the people and souls to be FREED OF THEM. Forever and ever.

Only GOD'S WORD is eternal and sustains.

@Jack @Cassandra Are we in agreement that God trumps Satan,
Jesus Christ trumps Antichrist, and the Holy Spirit trumps False Prophecy?

Mt 25
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

 

[Jack]

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

The Devil (opposite of God)
the BEAST/ANTICHRIST (opposite of Jesus Christ)
the FALSE PROPHET (opposite of Holy Spirit)

These three manifestations of Satan are NOT HUMAN.

Satan/Antichrist/False Prophet are spiritually collectively
the opposite of God/Jesus/HolySpirit which are not human.

So these demonic forces thrown into the Lake of Fire to be burned away
leave the people and souls to be FREED OF THEM. Forever and ever.

Only GOD'S WORD is eternal and sustains.

@Jack @Cassandra Are we in agreement that God trumps Satan,
Jesus Christ trumps Antichrist, and the Holy Spirit trumps False Prophecy?

So you agree that some will burn forever and ever?

 

[Emily Nghiem]

Mt 25
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

Yes for the DEVIL and the demons
so let us agree to give these Demonic forces to Jesus on the Christ to fulfill God's will

Then humanity will be freed of these forces of evil that otherwise corrupt divide and conquer

@Jack have you ever worked or witnessed anyone in Deliverance ministry?

Look up THE ELIJAH CHALLENGE

When everyone learns how the Deliverance process brings healing,
then we won't have anyone continuing to entertain demonic/occult/dark energies forces or practices.

We remove these by AGREEING in prayer to give these to Lord Jesus,
then God's will is done. We won't have divisions plaguing us but pure healing and unity in Christ Jesus and the Holy Spirit.

@JohnDB and @amadeus May I ask your prayers in Christ to be with us
as we seek 2-3 to agree in Jesus name and presence.

Please pray for corrections and reconciliation in Christ on God's truth
between me and @Jack and @Cassandra and both of you.

Let us pray Jesus REMOVE anything negative demonic and or not of God's perfect will and truth.
So that only what is God's will love and truth remains and we receive that and let it be multiplied among the tribes and nations.

May all eyes and ears receive hear and see the Lord and rejoice.
May every heart be healed every mind be freed every soul that can receive Jesus be saved

Can we please pray may all people of all tribes and nations
be BAPTIZED in the name of the FATHER and of the SON and HOLY SPIRIT
In JESUS name Amen

 

[Jack]

Yes for the DEVIL and the demons

I'm glad you believe in the eternal Hell that Jesus taught!

 

[Emily Nghiem]

So you agree that some will burn forever and ever?

the EVIL will burn in the Lake of Fire

EVIL that is nonhuman is not the same as the human people

the way human beings go through hell physically is like
watching people die in war, of drug addictions, etc. that is finite because people are finite.

We can end drug addiction, war, crime etc on earth.

It's up to God to finish the Lake of Fire process on that higher level that is nonhuman

If we do our part which is to agree 2-3 on what touches the Earth,
then God does His Will on the Heavenly collective realms we can't reach.

What would you like to pray for to resolve on earth?
Let's start picking some issues to pray for Jesus to enter in and God's will overcome.

We all do this, then we take care of our part, on earth, in our relations we CAN choose to ask
Jesus in to govern and REMOVE anything imperfect that is blocking us from heavenly peace in the Kingdom of God.

Anything we ask in Jesus name praying as fellow Believers,
it is done by our Father in Heaven.

I do not agree to condemn judge or "assume" people belong in the Lake of Fire.
I will not agree to pray for people to suffer in eternal hell.

I will pray for God to use the Lake of Fire and burning to RID of evil so souls can be freed and saved.

Do you agree to pray for evil to be burned in the lake of fire
and for all souls who can receive Jesus to make that choice and be saved?

@Jack @Cassandra @Harold
@JohnDB @amadeus

 

[Emily Nghiem]

I'm glad you believe in the eternal Hell that Jesus taught!

Yes I just don't believe people, who are finite and not eternal,
will be burned in the Lake of Fire that is for the Evil to be burned which isn't human

I don't believe people are the same as the demons.
Some people can't see the difference and think people are the demons.
No, demons are not human so when they are removed the people can be restored if we intervene and pray for Christ Jesus
alone who the demons must obey and must leave when commanded through Jesus Authority alone

 

[Jack]

the EVIL will burn in the Lake of Fire

EVIL that is nonhuman is not the same as the human people

the way human beings go through hell physically is like
watching people die in war, of drug addictions, etc. that is finite because people are finite.

We can end drug addiction, war, crime etc on earth.

It's up to God to finish the Lake of Fire process on that higher level that is nonhuman

If we do our part which is to agree 2-3 on what touches the Earth,
then God does His Will on the Heavenly collective realms we can't reach.

What would you like to pray for to resolve on earth?
Let's start picking some issues to pray for Jesus to enter in and God's will overcome.

We all do this, then we take care of our part, on earth, in our relations we CAN choose to ask
Jesus in to govern and REMOVE anything imperfect that is blocking us from heavenly peace in the Kingdom of God.

Anything we ask in Jesus name praying as fellow Believers,
it is done by our Father in Heaven.

I do not agree to condemn judge or "assume" people belong in the Lake of Fire.
I will not agree to pray for people to suffer in eternal hell.

I will pray for God to use the Lake of Fire and burning to RID of evil so souls can be freed and saved.

Do you agree to pray for evil to be burned in the lake of fire
and for all souls who can receive Jesus to make that choice and be saved?

@Jack @Cassandra @Harold
@JohnDB @amadeus

Do you realize that if you tell people they can't spend eternity in Hell that YOU are responsible?

 

[Jack]

Yes I just don't believe people, who are finite and not eternal,
will be burned in the Lake of Fire that is for the Evil to be burned which isn't human

I don't believe people are the same as the demons.
Some people can't see the difference and think people are the demons.
No, demons are not human so when they are removed the people can be restored if we intervene and pray for Christ Jesus
alone who the demons must obey and must leave when commanded through Jesus Authority alone

Jesus warned us several times of the everlasting fire. You've been deceived by Satan.